×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!
  • Students Click Here

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Jobs

OWSJ Identification and Information

OWSJ Identification and Information

OWSJ Identification and Information

(OP)
Hi,

I am trying to identify what I beleive is a GSW "L" OBSJ...see attached photos. I would also like to know if any span or capacity tables are available for this joist.

I saw the GSW joist referenced in a past post from May 17, but for some technical reason wasn't permitted to reply to the post.

Thanks!

RE: OWSJ Identification and Information

(OP)
Sorry, that should read GWS.

RE: OWSJ Identification and Information

What is GWS, a manufacturer?
But unless you can get a size (might be on a tag hanging from the joist, or painted on it, on the drawings, etc.), you're going to have to measure the joist and either figure out the properties or send them to the Steel Joist Institute (SJI).

RE: OWSJ Identification and Information

(OP)
Yes GSW is the manufacturer I believe. BAretired had a speifiation table linked in a previous post and the dimensions of this joist matches type "L". I was hoping BAretired may also have the span table for it????

RE: OWSJ Identification and Information

Is there a chance of the joist manufacturers ever engraving or otherwise stamping the joist size continuously on the bottom member or in another visible place? It seems that we, as structural engineers, spend a lot of time trying to figure out joist sizes.

RE: OWSJ Identification and Information

GWS stands for "Great Western Steel". I uaed to have a catalog in the ofice. If I find it, I will post again here.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
http://mmcengineering.tripod.com

RE: OWSJ Identification and Information

CruiserD:

As for not being able to respond to the May 17 thread, the administrator may have closed the thread to further comments either due to its age or lack of activity. You can always ressurrect it (of sorts) by cutting and pasting the thread number to this thread as a reference should you so desire.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
http://mmcengineering.tripod.com

RE: OWSJ Identification and Information

I do not think that GWS is in business anymore if my memory serves me correctly, but you might check with Canam steel corporation - they may have purchased the line. Just a hunch. I think that I do have the catalog at work. Will check Monday.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
http://mmcengineering.tripod.com

RE: OWSJ Identification and Information

Great West Steel Industries is no longer in business. They manufactured a joist using "Hat" sections for chords. Webs were round rods for the smaller joists and open round or oval sections for the larger joists. End diagonals were usually square or rectangular bars.

I have two GWS catalogs: the Western (W) 1973 Series with Imperial dimensions listing allowable safe loads and the later but undated Metric catalog based on Limit States Design listing factored loads in kN/m.

What is your depth and span of joist? Do you want the Imperial or Metric span tables?

BA

RE: OWSJ Identification and Information

(OP)
I was given a depth measurement of 33" from the site. This may be off as it looks like the top chord is buried. The span is 61'. I'm posting from my phone right now but will upload a drawing from my laptop. The new posts aren't showing up on the laptop right now...

RE: OWSJ Identification and Information

According to my catalog, they made a 32" and a 34" deep joist, but no 33". Need to know the edxaqct dimension, and the designation you will probably see on the tag will be something like 32H or 34G, something like that, where the top and bottom chord sizes.

If it is a 32G spanning 60 feet, the allowable live load is 99 plf (L/360), antd total load 208 plf.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
http://mmcengineering.tripod.com

RE: OWSJ Identification and Information

(OP)
Outstanding! Thank-you!

I will have them look for a tag and or doublecheck the depth.
As of this point I would wager it is a 34L.

RE: OWSJ Identification and Information

I noticed from your first post that there is an "L" designation on the joist. If this is what I think it is, unless it is a special design by GWS, the "L" designation did not enter into the picture until a depth of 36" according to the catalog I have (Imperial, with a maximum moment resistance of 176.9 Kip Feet.

GNW is now out of business, no longer making joists, but was purchased by Canron. Don't know the history beyond that.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
http://mmcengineering.tripod.com

RE: OWSJ Identification and Information

(OP)
The site has returned some more figures to me. The joist's measurements are quite close to a GWS 32K, spanning 61ft.

Anyone happen to have a span table covering this joist?!

Thanks
Darryl

RE: OWSJ Identification and Information

Moment of Inertia is 916 in4, moment of resistance is 153.6 Kft.

For a 32K spanning 60 feet, the total load is 337 plf and the L/360 live load capacity is 163 plf.

There is no rating for a 32K at 62 feet, they start at a 36G for 62 feet.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
http://mmcengineering.tripod.com

RE: OWSJ Identification and Information

It appears that Mike and I have different catalogs. Mine is the 1973 series. The properties are slightly different and joist 32K is listed for a 62' span in my catalog (although it does seem a bit shallow).

BA

RE: OWSJ Identification and Information

(OP)
It apears a bit shallow in the photos as well. Oh well, you guys have been superb...time to pass off the info to the structural engineers!

Thanks again!

RE: OWSJ Identification and Information

Mine is the first printing of the Fifth edition, and, of all things, appears to be undated unless I am blind, which happens occasionally. It is a 24 page catalog (page #1 ias actually the third page).

FYI, a sticker on the bottom of page 1 gives an ICBO Approval Number of "PFC-4047". You might google that to see if you can get further information.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
http://mmcengineering.tripod.com

RE: OWSJ Identification and Information

I have an undated GWS metric catalog (4th edition, 1st printing) which lists an 800K joist with an actual depth of 822mm (32.36").

BA

RE: OWSJ Identification and Information

Mike, the pages I attached earlier were from an Imperial catalog for the Western (W) 1973 series. The metric series was produced in Canada some time after 1973 but I do not know the exact date.

BA

RE: OWSJ Identification and Information

You might try contacting the ICBO at the following locations:

How to reach us:

1-800-423-6587 or click on a name to send an e-mail message.
•Technical Application questions: Mike Temesvary, Director of Sales
•New Report Application questions: Terri Aguirre, Manager, Client Relations
•Billing questions: Sherell Jackson, Accounting Clerk
•Renewal Application questions: Juanita Molina, Administrative Coordinator III
•General questions: es@icc-es.org

The3y might have more information, but then again...

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
http://mmcengineering.tripod.com

RE: OWSJ Identification and Information

Mike McCann, there are some Joists we are attempting to reference on site and we have managed to find the joist tags on some of the OWSJ's they are GWS 26" Deep and there are various spans. Is it at all possible for you to provide the joist catalouge to us in PDF form in its entirity? it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Daniel Byrne, P.Eng.

RE: OWSJ Identification and Information

CiVeDan:

OK... See if this works. May not all be readable, but the best I can to.

...Looks like it's too big to upload here.

I have the catalog on my desktop, so if you can give the management here your email address and have them send it to me, then I can forward this to you. Please DO NOT post your email in this forum. No worries.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
http://mmcengineering.tripod.com

RE: OWSJ Identification and Information

I sent a request to management.

Can I post a temp FTP site for you to post to?

Thanks!

Daniel Byrne, P.Eng.

RE: OWSJ Identification and Information

Ok, Great thanks!

RE: OWSJ Identification and Information

Mike: I have not received an email I am assuming a bounce back has occured. I sent you an FTP site to upload to which has a 2GB limit. I trust this should be sufficient.

Thanks again, sorry this sort of became a run around

RE: OWSJ Identification and Information

Hi BAretired,
I am currently trying to assess a roof made of joists that may fall the description for GWS, I'm attaching a picture of it; didn't find any tags or markings, it seems the were recently painted.
I was wondering if you could help me identify it and if so help me out with the load table for it? de measured depth is 22"

Much appreciated

M.

RE: OWSJ Identification and Information

Mixtli,

I don't believe that is a GWS joist, but it is hard to say from a side view. I provided the geometry of the chords of GWS joists in an earlier thread which I am repeating in the link below. Check the geometry of your chord and see whether or not it corresponds to the GWS geometry. So far as I know, GWS was the only fabricator in Canada to use a "hat" section as a chord, but other fabricators including MacComber and Anthes used a one-piece chord which might appear similar in side view.

BA

RE: OWSJ Identification and Information

Mixtli,
I think your joist is either a Macomber or an Anthes joist.
If it is Macomber, you will find some information on SlideRuleEra's archive (see link below). The top chord appears similar to your sketch but the bottom chord is different.

If it is Anthes, both top and bottom chords appear similar to your sketch. I don't know if you can find it on the internet, but I have an old catalog available. Anthes went out of business several years ago because joists on several projects collapsed under snow load, so you might want to be careful about using their span tables.

BA

RE: OWSJ Identification and Information

Thanks BA,
Both top and bottom chords are the same so it's definitely not a Macomber.
I think it may be an Anthes, what I am thinking on doing is calc the section properties, consider some conservative steel strength, say A-36 and do the calcs as if it was a truss, now does your catalog show the section properties for the 22" deep joist's chords and webs? I can obtain them from my pictures, but just to cross match them.
I am a bit worried about the reason the company closed, no wonder eh?, so I want to be conservative here. Do you know if the reported failures were due to the joist itself properties? or due to the steel it was made of?

Thanks a lot

M.

RE: OWSJ Identification and Information

Check the following thread in which I posted properties of the chord sections of Anthes joists:

thread507-285980: help identifying an irregular OWSJ chord

They made several 22" deep joists by using different chord members top and bottom as well as different web members. You will have to find the chord section actually used and compare it to my earlier post.

According to their brochure, the Anthes "V" Sections and open seam tubes conform to the following:
Tensile Strength: 67,000 psi minimum
Yield Strength: 55,000 psi minimum

So far as I am aware, the fault was not with the material. It was the fact that end diagonals were cut to the same length even when the width of the top flange of the supporting beam varied by several inches. This meant that, in some cases there were large eccentricities where the end diagonal met the top chord at the support.

I will peruse the brochure some more and post anything useful if I find it.

BA

RE: OWSJ Identification and Information

Thanks BA,
I will check on that thread
I appreciate it

RE: OWSJ Identification and Information

Mixtli,
I was going to send you some more info on the Anthes joist, but my scanner has given up the ghost.

For Designation B224 through B228, the top chord is 4 through 8, the bottom chord is 3 through 7, the Resisting Moment in inch-kips is 421, 490, 598, 717 and 871. The maximum End Reaction in lb. is 6200, 7600, 8500, 11000 and 13000.

If the above are out of range, Anthes issued a supplement with three more sizes, namely B222, 223 and 229 which I will send if you need them.

BA

RE: OWSJ Identification and Information

Thanks a lot BA,
I don't know what the designations mean, or have you sent that sheet already early in the thread? Let me check.

Cheers!

RE: OWSJ Identification and Information

What is your span and load per foot?

BA

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members!


Resources