Charging for the BIM file...
Charging for the BIM file...
(OP)
Had an interesting discussion this morning about the use of BIM files by contractors in preparing shop drawings, quantity estimates or connection design. We have noticed several contractors requesting the file on recent projects and it's become obvious to us that it is in the best interest of the job and client for us to provide it. For instance, on a recent project we were able to go from issuing design drawings to having approved shop drawings for a moderate sized steel job within a week! All of this was because our Revit model could allow the fabricator to produce shop drawings and connections almost without effort as opposed to them doing their own takeoffs of the printed documents.
So the thoughts on this went something along the lines of "well, if our legwork in preparing the model can be used by the fabricator / general contractor and significantly cut down on their work and subsquently their costs...why shouldn't we charge a nominal fee for supplying it". For isntance, if they save 10% of their overhead costs by using our model, wouldn't we be justified in charging them 1%-2% of their fee for supplying it?
Just curious what the thoughts are on this...anyone already doing this? If so, how are you implementing it and how is it going over?
So the thoughts on this went something along the lines of "well, if our legwork in preparing the model can be used by the fabricator / general contractor and significantly cut down on their work and subsquently their costs...why shouldn't we charge a nominal fee for supplying it". For isntance, if they save 10% of their overhead costs by using our model, wouldn't we be justified in charging them 1%-2% of their fee for supplying it?
Just curious what the thoughts are on this...anyone already doing this? If so, how are you implementing it and how is it going over?
PE, SE
Eastern United States
"If a builder builds a house for someone, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built falls in and kills its owner, then that builder shall be put to death!"
~Code of Hammurabi






RE: Charging for the BIM file...
An ironclad disclaimer would be in order no matter which way you go. But if you decide to provide a CAD or BIM model to another user and you charge a fee for its use(other than a minimal administrative fee) you will be held to a different standard of care in any following legal proceeding as compared to if you provided the model as a "courtesy" to the project team. It would be a very good idea to discuss this first with your professional liability insurer to see what your exposure would be.
regards,
Michel
RE: Charging for the BIM file...
RE: Charging for the BIM file...
RE: Charging for the BIM file...
RE: Charging for the BIM file...
So my vote is charge for them. Detailing has value, your drawing has value. We sell ourselves short too often.
RE: Charging for the BIM file...
PE, SE
Eastern United States
"If a builder builds a house for someone, and does not construct it properly, and the house which he built falls in and kills its owner, then that builder shall be put to death!"
~Code of Hammurabi
RE: Charging for the BIM file...
I think it will be interesting to see what somebody like the AISC has to say about who owns the responsibility. Being an engineer, I tend to view the AISC as an engineering/code writing entity however their real purpose is to promote the steel construction industry. This means that they represent fabricators as well. Interesting.......
RE: Charging for the BIM file...
To me the only real advantage of BIM is relieving other trades of their responsibilities and placing them on the model we create.
Some local engineering firms in my area have started offering themselves out to do the detailing themselves. They made the BIM model and they do the detailing. And yes they get paid for both.
RE: Charging for the BIM file...
Are you getting enough fee to actually model all these supplemental members? What about modeling all the rebar? There are so many things that are typically NOT modeled in the name of making the project fit in budgets and time frames.
If you are getting enough fee to actually model everything, please share some secrets!
In the CAD world, every company I have worked for has had a General Note that says something to the effect of "shops shall be original drawings prepared by the contractor or fabricator. Reproductions of the structural drawings for use as shops is not permitted and will be rejected without being checked". In the BIM world, all projects I have worked with have been simply submitted as drawings like you would get with CAD.
RE: Charging for the BIM file...
Here it is, use it at your own risk. We are not detailers and it might not be to exact tolerances, etc
RE: Charging for the BIM file...
AFAIK, the subject has not come up there for discussion.
... but it should, before they all get too lathered up about how wonderful BIM is,
... or will be, someday.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Charging for the BIM file...
If you turn around and charge for plans the Owner has already paid for and the fabricator is now pocketing a reduction in costs you are seriously in conflict of interest. Sound like a Kickback, No? Ethics discussion anyone?
Ideally, the Contract amount from the detailer/fabricator will be less to the owner. This should be reflected from the Bid documents where the you will state BIM files are available. Then, fabricators who can use them will have lower bids and shorter lead times and those who don't won't. The project wins on all counts and you get more future business because of all the horn blowing you are going to do afterwards about how much money and time you saved the client.
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MAP