Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
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RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
There might be another religon reason that escapes me, so I don't know why. Please enlighten me on why if you know more than me.
Just from an outsider perspective, this looks like something other than what they might explain it to be.
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
I do see in pictures from the middle east a lack of the female influence. No flowers and such. Maybe they are decended from mars.
They did invent zero (if I recall correctly), which is better than the romans.
I would rather say they can't out think us because they have half there brains tied behind there backs.
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
- Steve
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
M was fairly western in her outlook (her father had a some position in the Shah's regime; her best friend in our program was an American gal). M was a very good student, very well-liked, and ended up graduating near the top of our class. A couple of the Iranian guys were also fairly western in their outlook (one even married an American gal) and they didn't seem to have a problem with M getting an education. However, the rest of the Iranian guys had a more "traditional" viewpoint. On the one hand they would criticize M for being "too American" (she wore contemporary American style clothes) and on the other hand they would contantly pester her for her class notes. (To be fair, they pestered a lot of us for our class notes. As you can imagine, these guys were not as successful as those of us who actually went to class all the time and took our own notes, but I digress.)
Several times I witnesses one or more of these "traditional" Iranian guys pestering M in Farsi for her class notes. Each time, her response would be "We're in American, we speak English." Then she would walk away and leave these losers with dumbfounded expressions. I don't think they ever figured it out.
==========
"Is it the only lesson of history that mankind is unteachable?"
--Winston S. Churchill
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
There was one Iranian woman in the dorm but she was quite a bit more traditional in wearing all the clothing, praying, not socializing with Americans, etc. She scolded the male Iranian quite often for adopting American ways. Quite an interesting dynamic to see. She was maybe 2 years older but acted ancient and very closed off.
I knew a former pilot in the Shah's regime, who barely made it out of Iran alive, with his family. Khomeini was after all of the Shah's "people" to kill them. He married an American gal and they had a baby. It was a scary time for them. It reinforced my thoughts on marrying outside of my country.
Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
Who is the umpire who decides which belief is the correct one? I guess this is partly why I am an atheist and only moderately support democracy and even less capitalism from an ideological point of view.
Regards
Pat
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RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
I hope that we get an influx of brilliant women from the Middle East who are as outraged by this nonsense as I am.
"Engineers like to solve problems. If there are no problems handily available, they will create their own problems." -Scott Adams
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
IC
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
But... for most people liberation is good and is a much better thing we do.
Everyone has a right to there religon, but ...but they should be allowed to make there own choice.
I do support democracy and capitalism, because counter to some theorys, they work better than other systems. Not that they are perfect, and people will point that out, but they work better for more people.
If I were king, I would support that system because it worked for me.
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
You mean in your opinion.
Regards
Pat
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RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
Tick I do actually agree.
Regards
Pat
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RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
M's parents barely made it out of Iran themselves during this period. I still remember M's anxiety during this time and how a bunch of us (pretty much all Americans) gave her moral support. She didn't find out for about 6 weeks if they made it out or not. Through it all, she kept up with her coursework, but she obviously had a much harder time than the rest of us. A little Internet sleuthing and I discovered that she later completed a master's degree and is still in the US. Her best American friend works for a local agency. I should find out if they're still in contact.
Also during this time, several of the "traditional" Iranian guys joined protests on campus with about a hundred other Iranian students from various majors. You may remember these: they all wore paper bags over their heads and shouted "Death to America." A friend of mine (electrical engineering student and ex-Air Force officer) shamed several of them into quitting the protests. He told a group of them "You should thank God you're in the US, where we protect freedom of speech. If you protested like that in Iran you would be arrested, tortured, and possibly killed."
Fun times…not so much.
Fred
==========
"Is it the only lesson of history that mankind is unteachable?"
--Winston S. Churchill
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
==========
"Is it the only lesson of history that mankind is unteachable?"
--Winston S. Churchill
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
It would be interesting for you to talk with your old friends. M had great mental stability to carry on in such uncertain circumstances regarding her parents.
The few Iranians I've talked with say the country is decidedly worse, since the Shah's fall. Each country has to decide its own form of government. I'm happy to be in the USA, warts and all.
Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
For every system someone can say is bad, there was/is someone who gains from it. Besides slavery in this country evolved from indetured servents. These indetured servents that ran off from there contract prior to the completion, had there time extended by the courts.
For some people this system worked, because they had no money to pay for passage to this country.
If your objection is my comments about some people are better off being controlled, I understand. But don't denigh reality.
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
The point is that no matter how strongly we believe in something, it is really arrogant to demand it must be right especially if others have just as strong a belief in a contrary opinion.
Regards
Pat
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RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
An interesting comment I heard a few weeks ago, that many muslems, like many christions, don't read there holy book, that they trust what is told to them by there religon leaders. This sort of fits with millions of muslems being angry over a cartoon, but only after several days when they were informed by there religon leaders.
Scary how so many people could be controlled by some one person in todays time.
There are followers, leaders, and us lost others.
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
The statement "Some fields are not very suitable for women’s nature," given as justification for this decision (as per Abolfazl Hasani the first article), is both verifiably untrue and poorly-reasoned. As such, we can confidently say that this was a stupid, stupid thing to do.
"Engineers like to solve problems. If there are no problems handily available, they will create their own problems." -Scott Adams
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
It's not a difference in culture that we just don't understand, it's hatred and bigotry wrapped in the shade of "traditional religious views" (which by extension becomes "traditional cultural views") or hatred and bigotry fueld by "traditional religious/cultural views". There is no rational discussion you can have on taking away women's (or any other groups) right to partake in something that will improve their lives (and the countries as well).
And for those of you that think this is a foreign concept, reserved only for extremist religious countries like Iran, need to remind themselves of the damn chick-a-flick stupidity going on in America. This is directly relatable to the gay rights issue in America.
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
The origin of zero - you can make an argument or Babylon using a proto-zero (which is the Middle East, but waaaay pre-islam.) The best argument for a discrete zero used in numerical calculations instead of a placeholder (used as we do today) gives the title to India.
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
Regards
Pat
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RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
Do some women negotiate? Absolutely. Just a lower percentage than men.
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
"Engineers like to solve problems. If there are no problems handily available, they will create their own problems." -Scott Adams
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
I fees so sad for the millions of normal, rational Iranian people who are caught up in all of this. Why don't more people in the US see their fate as the logical conclusion to our own push toward theocracy? OK - I'll stop now.
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
I have heard it said in Germany they elect the loudest loud mouth. Which appears to be the standard world wide (sad to say). We are being led by the media, goverment officials, and other influnces. It is education of the facts in Iran, and here that is the problem. People will make decisions on there bisas without the facts.
In the past, many engineers came from farming families. They saw how things worked, because they had to fix them. Many women did not work on farm equipment.
In more recent times engineering education had to change as fewer students had the fix it background (the students changed). This allowed more women without the fix it background to suceed. (Or so it appears to me, not that I am an expert on this, but I have to try to understand this in my head).
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
You guys wouldn't believe what I've heard from men, across the ranks, over the years. Let's see:
- Women don't fix things; therefore, they don't make good engineers
- You're taking the place of a man with a family
- You're taking the place of a man that will eventually have a family
- You're taking the place of a man
- You'll never make what I make because you're a woman
- You'll never be viewed as my equal because you're a woman in a man's field
- You'll have to work twice as hard to be better than me
- Women shouldn't be in engineering and certainly not manufacturing
- Women shouldn't be in a male dominated field
- A woman's job is to spit out babies
Not all men think this way. For those that do, well, men should be wary, too, as they'll have other biases at work.Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
Cranky's 'fix it' observation applies to pretty much all kids today: pretty much none of them have a clue how to maintain their car, or fix their bike, or repair their stereo. Gender equality has indeed been achieved, but unfortunately everyone is now of equal inability. When I was a kid very few girls my age tinkered with cars, but among my slightly younger friends there are a more than a few females who do: times have changed, and in a good way. Among my single female friends a number are quite adept at DIY stuff around their homes; had they been in a relationship I doubt these skills would have developed as much. Skill born of necessity? Or are they single because they enjoy their independence and don't need a guy to put up shelves? At least one of them never asks me to do anything for her, just asks me how so she can do it.
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
"Engineers like to solve problems. If there are no problems handily available, they will create their own problems." -Scott Adams
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
sort of like the US "domestic" car of the year award ... as though american cars can't compete against their international rivals ... oh, wait a minute, they ...
well on another topic, how about them yankees ? (lord knows, i don't, just trying to deflect the conversation to something neutral, like sport)
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
wouldshould have done. They were always interesting to me but engineering wasn't my first choice. When I talked with Mother about what I wanted to do, she gave a flat refusal and the discussion ended pretty quickly. I was a pretty messed up kid and her choices didn't seem to match anything within reach for me. We were so poor and nobodies in the family and society not much seemed w/in reach. I had very few dreams as a child and as I moved into adolescence, they became even fewer. Math and science were always easy for me so it may not, for me, be so much born of necessity. A friend is very good at math but stunk at English so she pursued English in college. She now works more with math and English in her own financial planning biz.I like to figure out how to do things and do them. I'm single for a lot of reasons one of which is enjoying my independence. Would it be nice to be married? Yes. It's not happening so I live to the best of my abilities and enjoy my friends. An uncle told me that getting educated would reduce my marriageability. At that age, I was already familiar enough with men to have a high degree of uncertainty about my desire to marry. After all, my dad wasn't loyal to any of his six kids with two ex-wives and his third wife.
I love men but if there are too many problems or a few that are particularly outstanding, they're best kept at arm's length or greater. The men I've dated haven't worked on their problems and turn nasty to varying degrees, for no apparent reason. Life is much too short for that. If anyone treats you poorly when you are new, how will they will treat you when you're old? It pays to be slow, methodical, and have smart, experienced friends. I've learned even more principles from Bible study than friends that have protected me from mistakes, too. I've made enough mistakes to have no desire for more.
In an ideal world, there would be no need for women specific awards. Hopefully we'll get pretty close to ideal in another 10+ generations. People change slowly, if at all. Based on my experiences in the workplace, there was probably need for women specific awards.
rb1957, you make a fine distinction. Yet, for many women, the cumulative effect of discouragement becomes denial. If you have children and you discourage them enough about their ability to do math, they'll believe, at some point, they, indeed, cannot do math. I taught remedial math to a young man with that very problem and he was very bright.
Words have meaning. If you're going to speak words to or over someone, think of the a/effects they'll have on the recipient.
Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
Simultaneously weeding out too many losers while also raising your standards, I suppose.
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
still being discouraged to do something and being prevented from doing it are two different things. in the case of the former, some very strong people (probably including yourself) will fight cityhall all the way and eventually succeed.
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
rb1957, agreed. I believe the truth works best. My graduate advisor at Pitt was of the same mind and detested the path management took with employees. It does nothing to develop them professionally or personally. If you don't tell someone what they're doing wrong, they never have an opportunity to grow. And we all have room for growth.
Ha! I just got a call from a female recruiter, who complimented both websites and said it's nice to know there are women out there who can do that kind of stuff.
Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
When I was in college there was a sort of push by instructors to push women out of the profession. I did not notice it much then, maybe because I was a geek looking for a place to be. Who else would be at the computer lab at 3AM.
Many times I have had people ask me how do you become a protection engineer. Well sorry you don't get that from books, you learn by doing.
Many people learned how a car works by having to repair them. Some of those people became engineers.
To me part of engineering should be hands on (a dumb thing for an electrical to say).
I happen to work with several good women engineers, and I do appreciate there unique viewpoints.
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
Sounds like you have a few things in common with at least one very good friend. She too seems to have the knack of finding the poorer examples of my half of the species while dodging the decent ones, although she may have actually found a keeper this time.
Life sure is too short to dwell on the people and things which make you unhappy.
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
On the topic of women in the work force or even if women can lead, here is a site that may dispel any negative stereo types: http://www.forbes.com/sites/moiraforbes/2012/08/27...
Religion is a very dangerous method of brain washing. I am not atheist and believe there is a higher being, but I do not believe that any person or group has the right to say their opinions in God’s name or say that they speak for God.
Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."
“Luck is where preparation meets opportunity”
"People get promoted when they provide value and when they build great relationships"
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
ScottyUK, well maybe she and I will have an opportunity sometime to compare notes and write a book together.
Twoballcane, congrats to you on rising above your circumstances. Sounds like a tough environment to do much beyond survive. I'm glad you overcame the childhood obstacles and blossomed in college. That's always a wonderful thing to see. I suspect inner city kids have it much rougher than country kids. The population density alone would make inner city life tough. Fearing for your life like that would be tough.
And lest we get carried away by the powerful women...Fortune 500 Female CEOs
Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
Also be careful of the sampleing, as the error rates in some poles can be huge because of the small samples.
The issue of the number of Female CEO may well be a topic for several decades, for several reasons. While female's are 50% of the population, clearly not as many of them are invested in a corporate climbing thing. And if you look at the number of years many CEO's have in business, and when women started entering the corporate world in large numbers, there are not that many with the same level of experence. I do agree there is some bisas in this area, but the numbers are not telling the real story. The numbers. I believe, are being presented for an agenda.
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
Things evened out a bit in high school, but the number of girls in advanced math and science was equal to or greater than the number of boys.
Somehow, I managed to grow up with the impression that girls were smarter than boys (or at least better students). This made it difficult to reconcile the chauvinist attitudes of older generations.
I do observe a gap in the fix-it, hammer-mechanic type skills, though I don't see this as a show-stopper for women demonstrating competence in technical fields. Plenty of boy-putzes without these skills, too.
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
Get to my aero eng class at uni and it was only about 10% female and quite a few of them dropped out in the first term.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
thread404-328774: _BLEVINs - Help! (ref. Beatles) - Need a few pages.
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
It is not my place to rationalize the actions of people in other countries. As far as I'm concerned we in the United States need to get it through our heads that policing the world is not our job, and micromanaging the level of hatred and bigotry in other countries is not only impossible, it creates more problems than it solves. Yes it's terrible. Glad I don't live there.
If the Iranians don't want to live in a world of hatred and bigotry, they will eventually figure out how to throw the bigots out. In fact, I think they're well on their way to that, based on the Ahmadinnerjacket protests that sparked the Arab Spring. But they've got to figure that out on their own, and no policy we (Americans) can adopt is going to help them figure it out. In point of fact, the "fear of America" is part of what keeps their current regime in power.
There's my libertarian rant of the day.
Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East - http://www.campbellcivil.com
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
The result is we do need to be active in other countries affairs, but maybe not to the levels we are today.
In the case of piracy on the high seas, who can argue that it dosen't affect us. So we need to be involved.
Of the two canels, panama, and suez, is it important to us if our ships can use them. Then we need to be involved.
Is poching in other countries important to us?
Is drug importation important to us?
Is sales of nucular weapons important to us?
And if wre not involved, who should be, the UN?
But I do agree we should be less involved in some things than we are.
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
Regards
Pat
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RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
I am sure the canals issues are both, but more economic but still I can see a case for maintaining stability there.
The pirate issues are both, but much more about security. The middle East is about oil and is economic despite lies told (or maybe intel mistakes made if you believe in flying pigs) about security to justify an invasion.
Now I am going to be really controversial. Vietnam was about trade routes from Laos and Heroin trafficking via the Mekong River with lies about security as justification.
Regards
Pat
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RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
Not saying that covers all or even most recent Mid East conflicts, just saying it's one of those fuzzy areas.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
If prices go up because others also want to buy it, well that's a free market and what the USA claims to fight for. It would be kinda hypocritical to fight for peoples freedom so that you can undermine it yourself.
Regards
Pat
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RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
I have to agree with Kenat. Everywhere the USA goes it has always been to squash security threats and to stabilize the economy in that country. WWII is a great example when Germany and Japan dragged the US in to war and then at the end of the war the US planted a US Military base at each country for security reason and the byproduct was that the two countries prospered economically afterwards. The citizens in both countries prospered with business, better schools…etc. Now for the Korean War and Vietnam War, these were Communist backed threats, however, South Korea faired a better economic growth than North Korea. Just because (like a religion) North Korea citizens believe that their leader is benevolent and righteous. Vietnam and the surrounding countries are prospering too, even under dictatorship. Now it seems, in my opinion, that the leaders of countries that rule their people with religious rhetoric do not care about their citizens well being. The leaders are so brains washed with religious prophecies that they feel that they are the superior country and thus capable of horrific acts because they feel that God is on their side. Just like Germany, Japan, and Korea, the US is trying to stop the madness and free the country from religious fanatics so that the citizens can grow their economy. This cannot happen without a strong military present. Once their economy is growing, the security threat against the US will decline. In the words of Rodney King “Can’t we all get along?!”.
Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."
“Luck is where preparation meets opportunity”
"People get promoted when they provide value and when they build great relationships"
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
or delete the "not" and add "only" ... "US only cares ... that are
notimportant"the US has it's interests and tries to protect them.
Should it try to project it's Bill of Rights (as amended/updated now to include women) onto others ?
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
A friend's father-in-law fled Vietnam with his family to avoid death at the hands of the communists. He was a doctor. He is a staunch Republican because he detests and loathes communism and knows the path to it. He lived and escaped it. I cannot guarantee this but he would probably disagree with your assessment. Not being controversial but injecting someone else's experience in Vietnam during that time.
Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
Germany has always been a prosperous and powerful nation, since before the US ever existed and certainly long before it decided to open a base there to engage itself in the cold war with the USSR. I'm not sure it is a good example of US involvement being a factor in the nation becoming prosperous.
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
That was exactly the entire point of the UN. It's why it exists. It's why it was formed.
The USA has two moats on its eastern and western borders, each a quarter or more the width of the entire planet. Nobody's invading us. The only threat to our national security is the dollar collapsing under our debt load, from us spending too much money trying to police the world.
Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East - http://www.campbellcivil.com
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
While your friends inlaws may or may not have had a legitimate fear, before the Americans became involved, Vietnam was a civil war where the majority of the indigenous people where trying to overthrow a foreign colonial power who had set up an elite ruling class that was a different religion and culture to the vast majority.
Such wars normally result in some retaliations afterward, no matter which side wins and I am sure prominent members of that elite ruling class would have been targeted, however Vietnam is now a peaceful and united country with the vast majority of former South Vietnamese citizens safe and well. Ho Chi Minh did not apply the domino theory and continue to impose his ideology on surrounding countries once he achieved his goal of liberating part of his country from the French.
I would think, based on their own history, the USA should actually have had some sympathy for them in their efforts to overthrow a colonial government so the vast majority of the citizens could install a government of an ideology of their choosing, especially when Ho Chi Minh initially had a good relationship with the USA due to him being an allie in the war against Japan.
Regards
Pat
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RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
Germany did not exist as a nation until the 1870s.
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
Anyway, the point is still true regarding the disconnect between US bases established on "the area of land occupied by present-day Germany" in the years following World War 2 and the economic prosperity of the people occupying the aforementioned area of land.
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
- Steve
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
RE: Iran Bans Women from 77 University Programs, Largely Engineering & Physical Sciences
So maybe there thinking avoids some of the social problems we have.
We could avoid some of the social problems we have if we changed the driving age to 21. But don't want to.
I guess the bottom line is people should vote with there feet, as well as there money on which system they like.