the joys of getting paid - or not
the joys of getting paid - or not
(OP)
Back in May, I did a project for a builder that came recommended and I had no reason to be leery of his ethics. He said he'd pay as soon as I got the invoice to him, which was the next day. Cut to three months later... after one bounced check, about four promises that the check is coming, and a second job with him where he pulled a lot of unethical crap and tried to get me into it too - I still haven't gotten paid, and I'm getting tired of this.
The check came for the second job just today, but only because I contracted with the owner and not the builder. The builder told the owner in front of me that permits weren't needed, though we (meaning he and I!) legally had to recommend them. Uh, no. I told the owner through email that permits were in fact legally required and that I would not be participating in the job until permits were pulled. Come to find out the builder hasn't renewed his license, either, and is doing projects way over the unlicensed monetary limit. (No, there will not be a third job for this builder.)
With all this, I still need to get paid for the first job. I don't trust this guy AT ALL. I have a call in to my lawyer, but in the meantime, what are some recommended next steps? I'm going to ask for a cashier's check since one has already bounced. I'd also like to ask for a late fee, but given that the terms and conditions on my contract don't say that (but are added in now!), I guess that's out. I'm going to look into placing a lien on the house for the amount as well, but I don't know if that will actually help, since my contract on that job was with the builder and not the owner.
And, as a PE, am I obligated to report the guy for working over his limit, or for recommending illegal stuff?
I know this isn't a lawyering board, but I also know that a lot of you are sole proprietors like me and may have helpful thoughts. Cheers in advance.
The check came for the second job just today, but only because I contracted with the owner and not the builder. The builder told the owner in front of me that permits weren't needed, though we (meaning he and I!) legally had to recommend them. Uh, no. I told the owner through email that permits were in fact legally required and that I would not be participating in the job until permits were pulled. Come to find out the builder hasn't renewed his license, either, and is doing projects way over the unlicensed monetary limit. (No, there will not be a third job for this builder.)
With all this, I still need to get paid for the first job. I don't trust this guy AT ALL. I have a call in to my lawyer, but in the meantime, what are some recommended next steps? I'm going to ask for a cashier's check since one has already bounced. I'd also like to ask for a late fee, but given that the terms and conditions on my contract don't say that (but are added in now!), I guess that's out. I'm going to look into placing a lien on the house for the amount as well, but I don't know if that will actually help, since my contract on that job was with the builder and not the owner.
And, as a PE, am I obligated to report the guy for working over his limit, or for recommending illegal stuff?
I know this isn't a lawyering board, but I also know that a lot of you are sole proprietors like me and may have helpful thoughts. Cheers in advance.





RE: the joys of getting paid - or not
Probably, but are you willing to accept the potential consquences, i.e., retaliation? I would think that he can hurt you more than you can hurt him.
TTFN
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RE: the joys of getting paid - or not
As for reporting the contractor violating his license, which may also be expired, the contractors around here have no problem reporting a competitor who is doing something shady or illegal. I wouldn't either. The playing field is supposed to be level as a result of contractor licensing laws. Fouls need corrective action.
Good on ya,
Goober Dave
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RE: the joys of getting paid - or not
RE: the joys of getting paid - or not
RE: the joys of getting paid - or not
RE: the joys of getting paid - or not
In a similar vein, the Lemuelson Foundation used to sue bar code users for patent infringement, since some of the users were gigantic, ala, McDonnell Douglas, GM, etal, while the actual infringers were relatively tiny.
TTFN
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RE: the joys of getting paid - or not
And sometimes it's better to walk away.
RE: the joys of getting paid - or not
It could be that they have not received payment of some kind or they are victims of a company going into administration. I would think most owners of SME would have had this kind of thing happen to them over the last few years and also know how hard it is to get any help from the banks. So would know the problems of cash flow.
Might it not be a better idea to try and come up with some kind of payment terms, even if they are spread over a period of time rather than just take legal action and possibly see another company go into administration and see more people out of work and more companies left with bad debt?
RE: the joys of getting paid - or not
There are several avenues, including legal action. But if nothing else works, the social media can bring a business to it's knees. A bad reporting to the BBB is also possible. In some countries you can hire a preson with a sign that states "pay your bills", to follow the person around.
Have you reported him to the credit reporting agency?
RE: the joys of getting paid - or not
For larger projects they set up payment milestones. Say, submission of plans for permit, they get paid a % of the contract. In these instances again, it's cash and carry. This way they know in advance that they will have an issue and can really ruin the guys day when they call the building department and have their names removed from being the EOR.
My last employer (who went under) subcontracted some work to an engineer based upon an hourly rate. The project he was hired to do got caught up in the permitting process. 3 years later with my employer in financial distress and the project coming back to life the engineer called the building department and had is name removed from the project because he had a fear that he wasn't going to get paid (he was paid to date just not for the CA portion of the project). Don't know if that was ethical or legal but he got away with it and it caused/is causing a world of pain for everyone involved.
I guess this is just part of doing business in the flied of construction.
RE: the joys of getting paid - or not
I always kept a file of the small unpaid bills. Believe it or not, a lot of these guys would call me years later asking me to do some work for them. I would go right to the file, pull the bad invoice, then tell them, "You should save yourself some embarrassment by keeping track of people you've stiffed." Of course they have stiffed many people, so they wouldn't remember. But with the invoice there, I would remind them. It never resulted in me getting paid, but the moment was always worth the couple hundred bucks. It also resulted in me being more cautious about getting paid on the small jobs. Down the road, they aren't worth the effort to try to get paid. The client should understand that, and agree to pay on completion.
RE: the joys of getting paid - or not
I'll let y'all know how it goes.
RE: the joys of getting paid - or not
RE: the joys of getting paid - or not
TTFN
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RE: the joys of getting paid - or not
Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC
RE: the joys of getting paid - or not
RE: the joys of getting paid - or not
Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC
RE: the joys of getting paid - or not
TTFN
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RE: the joys of getting paid - or not
Unless the client has assets you can claim against, do your work on a retainer basis. If the work is large, progress payments are appropriate and reasonable even for good clients with good credit. Don't put yourself in the position of financing the work.
The key to getting paid is to be more annoying than the other people he owes money to. A collection agency can help, although they do take a hefty slice. A lawyer can help too, but they too take a hefty slice. A lawyer's letter though is sometimes effective and shouldn't be expensive.
RE: the joys of getting paid - or not
Thanks for all your thoughts, folks.
RE: the joys of getting paid - or not
Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC
RE: the joys of getting paid - or not
Cheers
Greg Locock
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