Now for the questions
Now for the questions
(OP)
I will start with the background. I work for a company that has two Trumpf TruLaser 2030 cutting tables. Both machines are about five years old with cut tables that are enclosed on the sides but not the top. There are no overhead operations so there is no employee exposure at heights beyond the top of the walls.The most exotic materials cut on these machines are stainless steel and aluminum, however most of the time carbon steel is all that is being cut.
When the machines were purchased anyone having anything to do with the operations of the machines attended the training provided by Trumpf. My employer has had a maintenance agreement with Trumpf where the they do the required maintenance on the machines, so our people never go into the resonator or the other sensitive laser parts of the machine. The machine has multiple interlock points and of course the key at the opertors console. As far as I have been able to determine the short list that follows is all our people routinely do with the machines.
1) Change cutting heads
2) Empty the fines that collect in the waste container
3) Fill Kluberlube
4) Change gas cylinders
5) Clean mirrors and I think sometimes change them as well.
6) I think they are also able to make some adjustments to the beam, but not turn the machine/beam on until the interlocked operators access door has been closed with them outside the walls. (not 100% sure of this)
So, here is where my questions begin. The machine is a Class 4 laser inside the walls during normal operation and Class 1 outside the walls during normal operation. With as far as I can tell all of the maintenance work being done by Trumpf can I develop a Laser Safety Program based on the machines being Class 1 instead of Class 4? Or must I implement a Class 4 program even though our employees do not perform the routine maintenance on the machine? Can I get away without any written program or a LSO? Or do I develop a Laser Safety Program that does not address all of the maintenance activities our employees do not perform?
Any guidance or light other members can shed on this subject would be greatly appreciated. Don't worry, I will be contacting Trumpf and continuing to ask questions of others until I get to the bottom of the issue, further, I will implement whatever level of safety program and ongoing monitoring I must to make sure we are in full compliance before this is all said and done.
Help a greenhorn if you can, Thanks.
When the machines were purchased anyone having anything to do with the operations of the machines attended the training provided by Trumpf. My employer has had a maintenance agreement with Trumpf where the they do the required maintenance on the machines, so our people never go into the resonator or the other sensitive laser parts of the machine. The machine has multiple interlock points and of course the key at the opertors console. As far as I have been able to determine the short list that follows is all our people routinely do with the machines.
1) Change cutting heads
2) Empty the fines that collect in the waste container
3) Fill Kluberlube
4) Change gas cylinders
5) Clean mirrors and I think sometimes change them as well.
6) I think they are also able to make some adjustments to the beam, but not turn the machine/beam on until the interlocked operators access door has been closed with them outside the walls. (not 100% sure of this)
So, here is where my questions begin. The machine is a Class 4 laser inside the walls during normal operation and Class 1 outside the walls during normal operation. With as far as I can tell all of the maintenance work being done by Trumpf can I develop a Laser Safety Program based on the machines being Class 1 instead of Class 4? Or must I implement a Class 4 program even though our employees do not perform the routine maintenance on the machine? Can I get away without any written program or a LSO? Or do I develop a Laser Safety Program that does not address all of the maintenance activities our employees do not perform?
Any guidance or light other members can shed on this subject would be greatly appreciated. Don't worry, I will be contacting Trumpf and continuing to ask questions of others until I get to the bottom of the issue, further, I will implement whatever level of safety program and ongoing monitoring I must to make sure we are in full compliance before this is all said and done.
Help a greenhorn if you can, Thanks.





RE: Now for the questions
As to your maintenance items, ANY work that requires penetration into the work area of the laser must be treated as working on a Class 4 laser. The simplest example is if someone intentionally or unintentionally starts up the laser while the maintainer is cleaning the mirrors, BAD things could happen. That said, your shrouds should interlock that scenario out. But, there are people that will bypass such interlocks as a matter of course. Sounds like you need to verify that each of your interlocks still work.
TTFN
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RE: Now for the questions
I was only hired a couple of months ago and I have made this one of my priorities to make sure the company is in compliance with ANSI Z136.1. I am eager to make whatever corrections we must to make this situation correct, but with little background in lasers I do not want to take well intentioned steps that possibly were/are overkill and in no way apply to the situation.
Is what I described what is known as an "embedded" type of laser? No mention is made of that in the machine manuals, but in what reading I have done it sounds like this is what we have which has created more confusion for me. On the other hand I think this must not be so or the machine manuals would have made mention of this.
RE: Now for the questions
So, for each of your 6 items listed above, you need to determine by physical inspection or inspection of drawings whether the person can be exposed to the internal lase:
1) Change cutting heads
I'm guessing this requires getting inside
2) Empty the fines that collect in the waste container
I'm guessing this is a runoff collector, so probably OK
3) Fill Kluberlube
Ditto
4) Change gas cylinders
Probably OK
5) Clean mirrors and I think sometimes change them as well.
This requires access to the innards of the machine
6) I think they are also able to make some adjustments to the beam, but not turn the machine/beam on until the interlocked operators access door has been closed with them outside the walls. (not 100% sure of this)
Sure, but that's a tedious process, and there may be some motivation to cheat the process by defeating the interlocks.
TTFN
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RE: Now for the questions
TTFN
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
RE: Now for the questions
1) The changing of the cutting heads is done from outside the machine. The operator travels the bridge to his end of the machine, I watched him turn the machine off, however he also showed me that if he did not turn the machine off then as soon as he opened the doors to change the cutting head a big error message came up on his screen proving the interlock worked. The operator did not have to enter the machine, he simply reached in and with the aid of a simple tool removed the cutting head that was mounted and replaced it with another; All done standing outside the machine and next to the control panel.
2) The fines sat behind a door on the outside of the machine that you opened and removed the waste then replaced and closed the door. This too was on the ouside of the machine.
3)Same as waste/fine removal, yes.
4)Removed from the machine and secured to the wall of the building behind the machine.
5)Correct, I confirmed this as true. I assume this will be a determining factor even if all interlocks are functioning and our folks are applying electrical lock-out.
6) I understand questioning the proper operation of the interlocks, but just for the sake of discussion assuming all of the interlocks are functioning as they originally came with the machine where does this leave me if to make the adjustment I also have them apply lock-out to do the beam adjustment as well?
Again, thank you for the help.
RE: Now for the questions
RE: Now for the questions
RE: Now for the questions
Item 6 is clearly an Class 4 situation during the actual mechanical adjustment, assuming the shrouds are opened for that.
TTFN
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RE: Now for the questions
Bear in mind that a runaway axis can kill you easier than a laser beam can.
Interlocks, and for some things, how about Lockout/Tagout?
cheers
Jay
Jay Maechtlen
http://www.laserpubs.com/techcomm
RE: Now for the questions
JayMaechtlen: I plan to require lockout for anything beyond normal operation so yes certainly lockout is part of my game plan.
RE: Now for the questions
TTFN
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RE: Now for the questions
The way i stay safe is to break down the dangers and understand them. As mentioned before, axis runaway is what hurts people, followed by touching the HV section while it's on. I saw some people stick their fingers near the nozzle and get burned by the CO2 beam but it was either a safety interlock was bypassed or the shutter malfunctioned. On that note, the fiber lasers are a totally different ballgame, that light is VERY DANGEROUS! (cumulative and permanent eye damage)
When I work in a shop w a lot of rules, I request a variance. I walk around the machine w the LSO and explain what I'll be doing, what exposed dangers will be present and then we decide on the safety measures, usually taping off the area and no lone zone (I get a babysitter). After we agree on the variance, we both sigh it and follow it.
There's so many holes in all the safety rules I've seen. Personal responsibility and understanding the equipment will keep people safer than rules.
Chris Krug http://krugtech.com/
Maximum Up-time, Minimum BS
RE: Now for the questions
-HR
RE: Now for the questions
As already mentioned here, the manufacturer should mention if the machine is a class 1 or class 4. In any case, as soon as a cover or safety is removed (during repair, maintenance,…) allowing the laser beam to potentially reach someone, it becomes a class 4 laser.
RE: Now for the questions
TTFN
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RE: Now for the questions
Where I was having problems was Trumpf's operator manual said under normal operation the machine is a Class 1 laser. They clearly indicated that service and maintenance was all Class 4 activity. However, I kept hearing that our people were not involved with any maintenance activities, and quite limited activity that could be called service.
As discussion has continued finally it has come out that in fact our people are doing maintenance on the machine because they will get on the phone with Trumph technicians who will direct them over the phone what they need to do and what to adjust, change etc. There is no more gray area here for me it is class 4 and will be treated accordingly, end of questions.
I do apologize to anyone I might have frustrated with my ongoing questions in this thread, but as I said in the beginning; lasers are an area I have had very limited experience with and as such I have really been feeling my way along with what I am sure for some have been stupid questions but as we all know stupid questions are part of the learning experience. I have now sorted this all out. Thanks to everyone that has helped me along with this as I fumbled my way around.
RE: Now for the questions
Thank you.
RE: Now for the questions
Please refrain from hijacking this thread, even though the subject is related.
Regular clear glasses are NOT OK, if there is an eye protection requirement, but there is necessarily one in place:
http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_docum...)
It depends COMPLETELY on the laser classification and ancillary safety constraints. If this were a non-Class 1, then laser eye-protection is mandatory, and it needs to be adequate for the assessed laser hazard classification of the laser. And laser-safety glasses are NOT run-off-the-mill "colored" or "tinted." This level of certainty and disinformation is extremely HAZARDOUS to the operator
TTFN
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RE: Now for the questions
Chris Krug http://krugtech.com/
Maximum Up-time, Minimum BS
RE: Now for the questions