Balloon quantity standard ??
Balloon quantity standard ??
(OP)
This is a drawing question regarding the placement of quantities beside callout balloons.
We are having this discussion in conjunction with the establishment of company drawing standards.
I (personally_ prefer using "x2" positioned to the lower right of the balloon. My colleagues use either "2" or "2X".
I am ok with either of the quantities using the "x" but, fear that a lone number could be left orphaned or that an orphaned number may be confused as a quantity.
I don't think that there is a definite directive in the ASME standards . Can anyone direct me to the appropriate standard ? What do you do at your company and why?
thanx in advance for your assistance.
Tim Moxam
Senior Mechanical Designer
Aversan Inc.
Toronto,Ontario,Canada
Tim Moxam
Senior Mechanical Designer
Aversan Inc.
Toronto,Ontario,Canada





RE: Balloon quantity standard ??
RE: Balloon quantity standard ??
I’ve never seen “real” standard regulating such things, but plenty of “company” standards demanding all kinds of things, for example, balloons representing purchased items to have name, address, and telephone of the vendor right next to them.
I would suggest you and other engineers just agree on something for the sake of consistency. Bad rule is better than no rules at all.
RE: Balloon quantity standard ??
Well generally for assigning quantities there certainly is a definite directive. Number of places would be "2X".
Now as regards placement etc. specifically applied to balloons, no I don't know of a definitive statement.
Our internal rule is that before or after balloon is fine so long as it's clear and when possible consistent within a drawing.
We only put qty next to a balloon where the same 'item number' is used in more than one application. If the qty to be put next to the balloon would be the same as that in the parts list we don't bother as it should be clear anyway.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Balloon quantity standard ??
Jim Sykes, P.Eng, GDTP-S
Profile Services www.profileservices.ca
TecEase, Inc. www.tec-ease.com
RE: Balloon quantity standard ??
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Balloon quantity standard ??
So, could someone reference paragraph in Y14.5 that is about balloons?
Also I always thought there was a difference between things like BOM “quantity” and “number of places”.
RE: Balloon quantity standard ??
i AM interested in the paragraph number but, i will look harder for it now.
I always use 2X when referring to a number of features, holes etc. but, i don't recall any specific reference to a "balloon quantity" in any standard. I look forward to being corrected!!
Any comments on the lone number beside the balloon to indicate quantity?
Tim Moxam
Senior Mechanical Designer
Aversan Inc.
Toronto,Ontario,Canada
RE: Balloon quantity standard ??
RE: Balloon quantity standard ??
There is nothing wrong with attaching any symbology to balloons per se, especially if everybody agreed on it, and better yet, it is explained somewhere on the face of the drawing.
But trying to duplicate or even replace BOM is in my opinion Costco-sized can of worms.
First obvious reason is that it makes revising drawings more difficult.
Also it creates more opportunities for misinterpretation. I don’t have a book with me but I believe you can duplicate balloon on subsequent sheets “for clarity”. Which immediately raises questions: is quantity next to balloon applied to this sheet? This sub-assembly? Is it global quantity for the entire machine? The BOM is there for a reason.
I realize that practice of attaching additional info to balloons is based on the belief that people on the shop floor will lose anything printed on separate small piece of paper, including BOM, and that belief is sometimes justified
So if your project is not very complicated and you made your intentions clear on the drawing, like “Top number in the split balloon is item number per BOM #ABC123, the bottom number is quantity required per the same BOM” you can get away with that.
Just make sure everything is clear for everybody
RE: Balloon quantity standard ??
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Balloon quantity standard ??
Jim Sykes, P.Eng, GDTP-S
Profile Services www.profileservices.ca
TecEase, Inc. www.tec-ease.com
RE: Balloon quantity standard ??
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Balloon quantity standard ??
There is also ASME Y14.34 dealing with BOMs, but I don’t think it says much about the balloon placement.
And to clarify using letter “X” as multiplication sign. It is used in meaning “times” as in “3 times diameter 10”, in this case it looks like 3X DIA 10 with space on one side of X. It is also used in meaning “by” as in “2 by 4”, in this case you put space on both sides of X: 2 X 4.
As it was mentioned, there is no written rule for interpretation of balloons: is it 10 times part number 3, or is it part number 3 multiplied by 10.
All that said, this actually gives you some freedom, which brings us back to idea that as long as everybody agreed, your balloons may vary.
RE: Balloon quantity standard ??
Matt Lorono, CSWP
Product Definition Specialist, DS SolidWorks Corp
Personal sites:
Lorono's SolidWorks Resources & SolidWorks Legion
RE: Balloon quantity standard ??
So Mr. OP, haggle out a unified method within your company and write it into your DRM (assuming you have one).
BTW, can one change their handle in ENG-TIPS? I want to change mine to CheckerLover.
RE: Balloon quantity standard ??
RE: Balloon quantity standard ??
its been a good conversation
Tim Moxam
Senior Mechanical Designer
Aversan Inc.
Toronto,Ontario,Canada