Different quality cars for different markets from same manufacturer
Different quality cars for different markets from same manufacturer
(OP)
We had a discussion on another forum concerning vehicle quality for different markets. So, the general idea is: say BMW or another manufacturer basically has two classes of quality, higher and lower of course. So the higher quality vehicles are sold in developed countries (i.e. Germany, Switzerland, UK, USA, etc.), and the lower class goes to Eastern Europe, Asia, Africa and so on. Say they make the VW Golf in Belgium and Hungary (just a hypothesis) and the cars from Hungary are made for the second class markets in second class quality, the ones in Belgium are making cars for the higher quality markets. The car prices are roughly speaking the same, let's say. It was even mentioned that the manufacturers even have first and second class cars from the same factory and assembly line and for the same model of course. Just to make it clear, by quality I mean lower quality interior plastics, lower quality leather, lower quality fabric for the interior...it was mentioned that say lower quality starter motors which were known to have some issues (not durable enough, not issues like setting the car on fire) and subsequently stopped being put on the higher quality cars are deliberately put on new cars for the second class market (let's say they are "good enough")...those starters would have higher possibility of breaking down, but they would still be good enough not to make too many fixes under warranty and thus additional expenses to the factory. And by this I don't mean that cars for different climates or different road roughness have more powerful ACs or different shocks (say different AC or radiator for Emirati vs Swedish markets). The story was even more fueled when a member who has a 320d E90 LCI had a few defect which were or are going to be covered by warranty, and one of the issues is going to include an engine removal, the mileage is around 10ish thousand km. So, what's your opinion?





RE: Different quality cars for different markets from same manufacturer
E.g., my friend from Wisconsin, whose family made wire harnesses for GM for years, says that the connector shells for, say, a GMC Suburban are slightly different from and slightly more expensive than the corresponding connector shells for a Chevrolet Suburban, which is nominally the same vehicle, made on the same production line.
E.g., Henry Ford is rumored to have said that the Mercury was the car he would have built as a Ford, absent competitive price pressure.
E.g., my Mercury Mountaineer doesn't squeak and rattle on rough roads as much as my similar Ford Explorers did. Just one tiny example of a difference I found: The 'staple' part of the Mercury's door locks is coated with some kind of tough, shiny elastomer, so the 'claw' part can still move relative to the staple, but it can't make a 'click' noise while doing so. The Ford's staples were just plated to resist corrosion.
Many vehicles are produced at 'high' and 'low' trim levels even for the same market, and some vehicles are produced in very similar form on different lines in different parts of the globe, but modern manufacturing is perfectly capable of making every one unique, and easily capable of making 'the same' vehicle different in thousands of large and small ways, adapted for whatever market in which they are to be sold.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Different quality cars for different markets from same manufacturer
Cars are certainly produced differently for different markets, most noticeably here in the UK is the location of the steering wheel but other factors also apply to comply with local laws on things like CO2 emissions, day time running lights etc.
I have also heard but cannot confirm that some plants around the world have a far superior paint finish to other plants that produce “identical” cars.
RE: Different quality cars for different markets from same manufacturer
A more likely approach is the same way that clothing manufacturers will make a lower cost knockoff of their own high-end product, by using single-stitching, instead of double.
TTFN
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RE: Different quality cars for different markets from same manufacturer
It doesn't make much sense. Yes, different models have different content. Different models go to different markets. If the exact same model goes to two different markets then it is the exact same model.
Cheers
Greg Locock
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RE: Different quality cars for different markets from same manufacturer
RE: Different quality cars for different markets from same manufacturer
Parts uniformity made a lot of sense when GM could order millions of a particular part and use it across all lines. I think there is more likelihood that parts quality could differ across a manufacturer's lines today due to the much greater efficiency in customizing parts for particular models and the much better ability to design to a particular life/duty expectancy. And there is no question that certain models in GM's and Toyota's lineups garner and REQUIRE higher ratings in the standard quality indexes indicating superior parts and/or assembly. Nevertheless, notice that Toyota's uncontrolled acceleration problems spanned Toyota and Lexus, leading to replacement of certain modules common to both lines.
RE: Different quality cars for different markets from same manufacturer
RE: Different quality cars for different markets from same manufacturer
RE: Different quality cars for different markets from same manufacturer
In most instances, 'passes QC' is a binary function; the part meets the spec, or it doesn't. Almost no one has time to investigate further, so the margin of passing is not usually known.
Now, I said 'Almost..', because in the continuous effort to reduce weight and cost, engineers might investigate further. They might even find an opportunity to reduce weight or cost. In fact, they are forced to seek such opportunities by Supply Chain Managers, even if none exist.
This is where things get dicey. What usually happens is that plastic is subbed for metal, or cross sections are reduced, until the part just barely gets beyond the warranty period. ... in a lab ... in a controlled environment. When you shave it too close, the Real World's professional gorillas will find a way to mis-use the product so that it fails inside the warranty period, or fails in a way that's bad enough to get some press coverage.
There's no math model for professional gorillas, and sometimes we guess wrong about what damage they can do.
Nobody sets out to make a bad part.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Different quality cars for different markets from same manufacturer
TTFN
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RE: Different quality cars for different markets from same manufacturer
RE: Different quality cars for different markets from same manufacturer
Basically, as someone else said, the OP is attempting to generate a conspiracy out of a faulty observation. We don't have time to go around qualifying parts for production that are nearly as good as the others, and as I said, once we did, if they met spec, they'd go in across the board.
Incidentally, you couldn't stream production of an alternator into two bins for durability, that would need durability testing on each alternator. Dream on.
Cheers
Greg Locock
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RE: Different quality cars for different markets from same manufacturer
The only case I ever saw approaching that was with high level vs low level options for the same market. One specific case was where a manually adjustable exterior was fitted to only the lowest model. It turned out an electric mirror cost less when installed than the manual, but for marketing reasons it was decided you needed to pay more for the perceived advantage. This was not a QC issue, but an equipment level/model issue.
Certainly the same model from different plants creates different quality and sometimes increases in some parts but decreases in others, like paint finish vs fit from maybe a more modern plant but less caring labour or whatever.
I remember many years ago the VW Beetle. From some plants you got a dipped baked enamel finish and from others you got a spray painted Duco room temperature dried finish.
Regards
Pat
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RE: Different quality cars for different markets from same manufacturer
Anyway, basically in a modern car plant you'd have to have different model numbers if you wanted to make sure different parts were fitted, and so by definition it isn't 'the same' car.
Cheers
Greg Locock
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RE: Different quality cars for different markets from same manufacturer
These marketing tricks are intended to maximize the exploitation of the market.
RE: Different quality cars for different markets from same manufacturer
However, this is not an intentional design of a "poor" part. It's simply a fallout of production statistics and yield. It's no different that what used to be MIL-STD-883 parts. They were no different in design, and no different in processing. The only difference was the level of documentation and the amount of inspection.
From a purely economics perspective, selling systems using inferior parts is almost always a losing proposition, since inferior quality means more rejects, more failures, more returns, etc. That all costs money and will most likely gobble up any possible profit there might have been.
TTFN
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RE: Different quality cars for different markets from same manufacturer
The removal of a feature from a car manufactured with that feature is similar in that an extra step at extra expense is performed (option delete is sometimes performed at the dealership) in order to fit the car into a lower tier. Again the strategy is to maximize the exploitation of the market.
RE: Different quality cars for different markets from same manufacturer
I had already mentioned customization in the context of producing different models with different features for electronics, so that Best Buy doesn't sell the same identical product as Costco.
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RE: Different quality cars for different markets from same manufacturer
RE: Different quality cars for different markets from same manufacturer
RE: Different quality cars for different markets from same manufacturer
Actually I think it's producing different model numbers for different outlets even though the product is exactly the same so that Best Buy and Costco don't ever need to worry about actually honoring their "price match guarantee".
RE: Different quality cars for different markets from same manufacturer
- Steve
RE: Different quality cars for different markets from same manufacturer
I think there's always some physical or functional difference. Otherwise, someone who has the money and time to burn could do a side-by-side to debunk the notion that the different model numbers correspond to the identical hardware.
TTFN
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RE: Different quality cars for different markets from same manufacturer
If your production is unreliable, inspection can catch unacceptable parts, but errors in the inspection process will waste some good parts and allow some percentage of terrible parts to get through (your inspection process is likely to be of the same quality as you production line). It is not efficient and it's harmful to the makers reputation.
In 1980 an illustration of quality manufacturing was presented in a TV report. Datsuns (Nissan) were being unloaded at Long Beach CA. The cars were driven off the ship and parked in a big lot. They had been loaded by crane, so this was the very first time they had been started ever. If one did not start it was sent back to Japan. The thing was that only about one in 5,000 cars wouldn't start or had a significant defect.
In contrast, the practice at GM was to, before installing in a car, run every single engine on natural gas to inspect for defects. 1 out of 3 required some adjustment.
It did not pay Nissan to inspect because they were not in the business of manufacturing defects. But, GM was.
RE: Different quality cars for different markets from same manufacturer
"It did not pay Nissan to inspect because they were not in the business of manufacturing defects. But, GM was."
I think you've provided your own reference. GM's approach was to allow its components to consume the entire tolerance band, since they were more interested in quantity, rather than quality. This meant that parts would have varying degrees of compatibility, with some engines tight, and others loose.
Nissan's, and other Japanese companies of that era, approach was to try and hit the desired value as close as possible. Essentially, each engine was nearly identical to its brethren. This allowed them to further tighten tolerances to the point where engines could essentially run their optimum for longevity.
But, they used similar machines, the same physics of materials. The only difference was the overall corporate culture, i.e., the workforces had different goals and objectives.
TTFN
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RE: Different quality cars for different markets from same manufacturer
However, windshield wiper motors are not like that, nor are piston pins, etc. In fact, whole mechanical drivetrains can confidently be produced without sufficient variability to effect performance in the field,... if the production line is high quality.
RE: Different quality cars for different markets from same manufacturer
The scenario that that the OP is posting about just doesn't exist. There are different models in different markets at different price points, but not what he has proposed.
RE: Different quality cars for different markets from same manufacturer
RE: Different quality cars for different markets from same manufacturer
RE: Different quality cars for different markets from same manufacturer
I think screwman1's post describes very well the situation with mechanical parts.