×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!
  • Students Click Here

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Jobs

Fire Line Approval Clarification
2

Fire Line Approval Clarification

Fire Line Approval Clarification

(OP)
Hello All,
Looking for clarification on the fire line approval process:

In my previous company many contractors came to us to produce stamped and signed Fire Line Shop drawings. These drawings were based off the original site design construction documents. The original documents would show the fire line along with location of Fire hydrants, PIVs, FDCs CV, BFPs and thrust blocks. However, the various fire departments would still require fire shop drawings as the fire line installation was deemed a delayed submittal that require separate approval by the fire department.

In some cases, the shop drawings were simply be a repetition of the design drawings with part numbers and sometimes a bit more detail than shown in the original design drawings. Based on my training, my supervisor constantly made a distinction between items that were "design issues" to be addressed by the original "design engineer" and items that would need to be addressed by the shop drawing engineer. I have followed the process before: Take design documents, specifications and hydraulic calculations to produce shop drawings. Shop drawings and sometimes even calculations are submitted to fire department for approval. Fire Line gets built by the contractor and signed off by fire inspector.

So the question is: How much information is to be provided in the design drawings? and how much goes in the shop drawings? I may be answering my own question, but why would a contractor need to produce signed and stamped drawings if there is plenty of detail in the original design document?

I have been in situations, were there has been plenty of detail in the design documents for construction and still shop drawings are required. This issue pertains to installation in California. Your input is greatly appreciated.

RE: Fire Line Approval Clarification

2


  • Contract drawings should include a set of fire protection drawings that are sealed by a licensed professional engineer.
  • Supervision by a licensed professional engineer is required in the review of fire protection installation shop drawings for compliance with the engineer's design and specifications.
  • Oversight by a licensed professional engineer is required in the installation of an original permitted design.
http://magazine.sfpe.org/fire-protection-design/ro...

RE: Fire Line Approval Clarification

(OP)
Bimr,
Absolutely great article. It has clarified as well as assured many aspects that I have been a part of already. Greatly appreciated.

One item that did catch my attention was under the "Roles and Responsibilities" section. The third bullet states the the engineer responsible reviews the shop drawings for compliance with the engineer's design specifications. This review does not necessitate approval and sealing of the shop drawings with a PE stamp"

In all fire system installations I have been involved, stamped and sealed shop drawings have been requested by the Fire Department (FD). This applies to different Fire Departments in different cities and counties. This has been requested, even though there are original construction documents that are stamped and sealed. Any light you can shed on this one? Maybe its just the current direction FD across the country are headed to ensure the shop drawings are prepared accordingly.

RE: Fire Line Approval Clarification

The Engineer should not seal shop drawings because the shop drawings are not the Engineers work. The Engineer only review the shop drawings for conformity with the construction drawings. As a general rule, if the licensee did not prepare, design, create or author the work, it should not be sealed.

Most professonal engineering acts require shop drawings to be sealed. Here is an example:

"The following documents shall be signed and sealed:
i. Maps, plats, reports, descriptions, plans, design specifications, certifications or similar
documents; and
ii. Shop drawings for the construction of buildings, structures and related equipment, or for other purposes, the preparation of which requires engineering calculations and/or engineering input. Catalog information and standard product information shall be exempt from the requirements of this section."

http://www.nj.gov/dep/greenacres/survey/pdf/NJAC_L...


Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members!


Resources