Fire Line Approval Clarification
Fire Line Approval Clarification
(OP)
Hello All,
Looking for clarification on the fire line approval process:
In my previous company many contractors came to us to produce stamped and signed Fire Line Shop drawings. These drawings were based off the original site design construction documents. The original documents would show the fire line along with location of Fire hydrants, PIVs, FDCs CV, BFPs and thrust blocks. However, the various fire departments would still require fire shop drawings as the fire line installation was deemed a delayed submittal that require separate approval by the fire department.
In some cases, the shop drawings were simply be a repetition of the design drawings with part numbers and sometimes a bit more detail than shown in the original design drawings. Based on my training, my supervisor constantly made a distinction between items that were "design issues" to be addressed by the original "design engineer" and items that would need to be addressed by the shop drawing engineer. I have followed the process before: Take design documents, specifications and hydraulic calculations to produce shop drawings. Shop drawings and sometimes even calculations are submitted to fire department for approval. Fire Line gets built by the contractor and signed off by fire inspector.
So the question is: How much information is to be provided in the design drawings? and how much goes in the shop drawings? I may be answering my own question, but why would a contractor need to produce signed and stamped drawings if there is plenty of detail in the original design document?
I have been in situations, were there has been plenty of detail in the design documents for construction and still shop drawings are required. This issue pertains to installation in California. Your input is greatly appreciated.
Looking for clarification on the fire line approval process:
In my previous company many contractors came to us to produce stamped and signed Fire Line Shop drawings. These drawings were based off the original site design construction documents. The original documents would show the fire line along with location of Fire hydrants, PIVs, FDCs CV, BFPs and thrust blocks. However, the various fire departments would still require fire shop drawings as the fire line installation was deemed a delayed submittal that require separate approval by the fire department.
In some cases, the shop drawings were simply be a repetition of the design drawings with part numbers and sometimes a bit more detail than shown in the original design drawings. Based on my training, my supervisor constantly made a distinction between items that were "design issues" to be addressed by the original "design engineer" and items that would need to be addressed by the shop drawing engineer. I have followed the process before: Take design documents, specifications and hydraulic calculations to produce shop drawings. Shop drawings and sometimes even calculations are submitted to fire department for approval. Fire Line gets built by the contractor and signed off by fire inspector.
So the question is: How much information is to be provided in the design drawings? and how much goes in the shop drawings? I may be answering my own question, but why would a contractor need to produce signed and stamped drawings if there is plenty of detail in the original design document?
I have been in situations, were there has been plenty of detail in the design documents for construction and still shop drawings are required. This issue pertains to installation in California. Your input is greatly appreciated.





RE: Fire Line Approval Clarification
- Contract drawings should include a set of fire protection drawings that are sealed by a licensed professional engineer.
- Supervision by a licensed professional engineer is required in the review of fire protection installation shop drawings for compliance with the engineer's design and specifications.
- Oversight by a licensed professional engineer is required in the installation of an original permitted design.
http://magazine.sfpe.org/fire-protection-design/ro...RE: Fire Line Approval Clarification
Absolutely great article. It has clarified as well as assured many aspects that I have been a part of already. Greatly appreciated.
One item that did catch my attention was under the "Roles and Responsibilities" section. The third bullet states the the engineer responsible reviews the shop drawings for compliance with the engineer's design specifications. This review does not necessitate approval and sealing of the shop drawings with a PE stamp"
In all fire system installations I have been involved, stamped and sealed shop drawings have been requested by the Fire Department (FD). This applies to different Fire Departments in different cities and counties. This has been requested, even though there are original construction documents that are stamped and sealed. Any light you can shed on this one? Maybe its just the current direction FD across the country are headed to ensure the shop drawings are prepared accordingly.
RE: Fire Line Approval Clarification
Most professonal engineering acts require shop drawings to be sealed. Here is an example:
"The following documents shall be signed and sealed:
i. Maps, plats, reports, descriptions, plans, design specifications, certifications or similar
documents; and
ii. Shop drawings for the construction of buildings, structures and related equipment, or for other purposes, the preparation of which requires engineering calculations and/or engineering input. Catalog information and standard product information shall be exempt from the requirements of this section."
http://www.nj.gov/dep/greenacres/survey/pdf/NJAC_L...