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Why should I become a Leader?
8

Why should I become a Leader?

Why should I become a Leader?

(OP)
I'm an engineer and my dream is to design products that will provide solutions to problems our world faces.
Sometimes I question myself, why can't I just become a team member, why must I strive to be the leader of my team instead? Are there any benefits of becoming a leader? And will being a leader help make my dream come true?
I can see the draw backs alright, such as the extra responsibilities, time and sweat put in, but there's also benefits such as glory, but is there more to wanting to become a leader than just glory?
Why do people want to become leaders in the first place?

RE: Why should I become a Leader?

Because different personalities get their kicks in different ways.

The shouty ones enjoy shouting more than engineering, so they shout at everybody else that they too should want to be shouters, because shouter-wannabees are easier to motivate than engineers.

Me, I roll up for work, get paid less than the shouters, and have fun. My choice.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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RE: Why should I become a Leader?

"Are there any benefits of becoming a leader?" > well, you more or less get to have things done your way, and you don't have to put up with someone else's (pitiful, failed, etc) attempts at leadership ...

"And will being a leader help make my dream come true?" > maybe but likely not; its a job for cripes sake. how long have you been out of school?

"glory" > what the heck is that? its not a sporting event. yes, perhaps there is some "glory" to be had in some popular invention or such, but its rather few and far between in the engineering field. Better to strive for the respect of ones peers and a few important accomplishments along the way, have some interesting work, all the while earning enough to be able to have fun outside of work, support ones family, and have a decent retirement, etc.

RE: Why should I become a Leader?

Are we going to have to define leader vs ma is nager again.

http://www.nceng.com.au/
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."

RE: Why should I become a Leader?

I worked with a good leader once who explained it as rewarding because you could effect big things by leading a group, rather than only contributing one person's-worth of work.

If that, or the other reasons posted, don't motivate you then don't feel you have to strive for it. Plenty of people get their kicks out of being a team member instead.

RE: Why should I become a Leader?

Do you want to be the windshield or the bug?

RE: Why should I become a Leader?

Not all Shouty ones are good leaders. Good leaders usually see the big picture, and can direct the right resources (people) at tasks so everyone involved can be successful and on time. There's a certain finesse required to direct people efficiently while not getting on everyone's bad side. Some people do not have the skills or personality to become leaders, and there's no shame in recognizing or accepting that fact. By not showing leadership potential, you may stay in your current position with no advancement, and watch your peers move up and on to greater things.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."

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RE: Why should I become a Leader?

In the office where I currently work, some of the managers (I'm told) used to be fond of asking graduates during interviews whether it's better to be "right" or "in charge." Rumor has it that they only ever hired people who picked the latter. Interesting bunch around here.

RE: Why should I become a Leader?

Quote (ivymike)

In the office where I currently work, some of the managers (I'm told) used to be fond of asking graduates during interviews whether it's better to be "right" or "in charge."
This terrifies me on many levels, & I'm glad that I'd get cut from the candidate list.

Insofar as being a leader (drawing on rowingengineer's distinction), it's extraordinarily important to be able to give those less experienced/savvy/enterprising than yourself the guidance & inspiration they need to be productive, merely in the name of social responsibility. Trusting that someone else will figure out what needs to happen & communicate it effectively is a good way to wind up in an inextricably screwed up emergency situation when said hypothetical leader doesn't spontaneously appear. It's a skill you ought to practice.

Being a manager is optional - not everyone wants to tell other people what to do for a living. But being a leader is mandatory, for when someone's living depends on your ability to tell them what to do.

"Engineers like to solve problems. If there are no problems handily available, they will create their own problems." -Scott Adams

RE: Why should I become a Leader?

to put a more positive spin on the question, it doesn't matter if you're right if you can't put the answer to use. The person who is in charge doesn't have to be right but he always decides what gets implemented (I don't think he is precluded from using the right answer he gets from someone else, assuming he can tell which answer it is).

RE: Why should I become a Leader?

"Why do people want to become leaders in the first place?"

Lots of different reasons:
> Because they got promoted, but they may or may not succeed at it
> Because they think they'll get "glory;" they won't
> Because they were told they should; they may or may not succeed at it
> Because they get as much satisfaction of running a group as you do in designing products

So, everyone has different reasons to do, or not do. That's completely up to you. If "designing products" include managing a team that designs products while you, yourself, does not participate in the actual design, only the conceptual design and steering thereof, then perhaps you could be a manager.

TTFN
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RE: Why should I become a Leader?

ivymike: By the same logic, a person who isn't "in charge" isn't precluded from having their idea implemented, either. The important scenarios are the XOR, exclusionary ones; "Is it better to dictate implementation and be wrong, or to have the wrong implementation dictated to you and be right?"

And, despite it being the engineering equivalent of Godwin's Law, I'd be remiss in not mentioning the Challenger disaster as a great example of both - who would you have rather been at the end of the day, the engineering manager who told them to launch or the engineer who told them not to?

"Engineers like to solve problems. If there are no problems handily available, they will create their own problems." -Scott Adams

RE: Why should I become a Leader?

pandamon, I'd say if you are interested in being the leader for any other reason(s) than to make the team as effective as possible, you are doing it for the wrong reason(s).

Regards,

Mike

RE: Why should I become a Leader?

Leaders get paid more and get laid off last.

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East - http://www.campbellcivil.com

RE: Why should I become a Leader?

Leaders don't ask, they just do.

RE: Why should I become a Leader?

“I'm an engineer and my dream is to design products that will provide solutions to problems our world faces.”
So are you saying you are not a leader? However, than this statement is counter to your opinion. Unless you are passive and just taking orders then this is not being a leader, but if you are proactive than these are the tale tale signs of leadership. If you get the problem, give it thought, go thru a few iterations, come up with a solution, and then convince the customer (or your boss and management) that this is the way to solve the problem. These are leadership skills. People are coming to you with a problem and you are leading them thru the maze of engineering and design to get them to a safe and profitable design. Engineering in essence is leadership (not management). If you don’t want to be a leader, just become passive and you will not go too far in your career and your dream.

Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."
“Luck is where preparation meets opportunity”

RE: Why should I become a Leader?

And we're back to the management V leadership debate.

pandamon - are you really saying you don't want to be a 'leader' or that you don't want to become a full time manager/project manager?

Managers do tend to get paid more - though there are ways to get paid good money and stay technical. As to job security, I'm not sure I'd say management is safer - it depends on a lot of factors.

Posting guidelines FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm? (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: Why should I become a Leader?

If you don't know - maybe you shouldn't (goes either way)

RE: Why should I become a Leader?

I hear ya Kenat...there is always some dead horse to beat up again and again and again.....

Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."
“Luck is where preparation meets opportunity”

RE: Why should I become a Leader?

Lots of older and larger companies tend to have lots of layers of managers managing managers. One of the two layers is not safe. At one company, they cut out a layer, and the manager was hypothetically managing about 200 people.

TTFN
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: Why should I become a Leader?

I'm not sure you should become a leader.

RE: Why should I become a Leader?

2
I never thought of myself as a leader. I still don't. My interests were learning, doing a good job, and working to get along with my teammates. Others saw me differently. They made me a leader; I didn't.

Through work it came to my attention that others were following me. This was several years into my career. I was surprised and humbled to realize how much impact my words and actions had on those men. It impressed the need to be much more mature than I felt, to measure my words carefully, to not get puffed up about me, and temper all responses with a higher degree of understanding of the audience than myself.

In my personal life, I learned through an extremely hard lesson that others, even youngsters, were following me, too, simply through my words. That lesson was so hard it still saddens and humbles me and hopefully it always will. That was the first lesson in watching my words, all of them, i.e., even the ones meant as humor.

In ways, you are probably already a leader and don't know. Don't obsess over it to the point of narcissism.

Leadership is a huge responsibility, when done right.

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC

RE: Why should I become a Leader?

As for glory, I gave that to the people working under me on projects. Without them, nothing would have happened and the projects were a success because of them. You never work in a vacuum and the glory needs to be spread to all concerned including the janitor. You'll learn this, too. smile

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC

RE: Why should I become a Leader?

Some people are just natural born leaders. I’ve read that people who were the oldest out of their siblings, played on teams, on a club board of directors were natural born leaders…etc. Yes, leadership can be taught and learned, but for some it is easy and others difficult. I think it comes down to how much stress you can handle. Some people thrive on stress (and most likely workaholics) and you can see them rise thru the career ladder while others are 9 to 5vers.

Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."
“Luck is where preparation meets opportunity”

RE: Why should I become a Leader?

You can be taught the mechanics of leadership, just as you can be taught the mechanics of tennis. However, there will be those that can practice until the cows come home, and will be a distant shadow of Andre Agassi. As with just about any sort of human endeavor, talent and skill are both required for success.

TTFN
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: Why should I become a Leader?

Pamela...well stated and entirely correct. When you realize in the eighth grade that the coach picks you as one of two to pick the opposing teams, you're suddenly a "leader". You then choose on ability AND inclusion...at that age the need is for both. Some people would be surprised at the ability of some who are chosen and included...just because they were. Humbling.

RE: Why should I become a Leader?

I quite liked the Despair.com "Leaders" poster: it had a picture of an eagle soaring in a clear blue sky, and was captioned "Leaders- are like eagles. We don't have either of them here.".

There isn't a lot of leading (or following) per se going on in our place. Instead, there's a lot of coping, reacting, collaboration (and a fair bit of commiseration too) and a tolerance (in fact encouragement) of self-direction. This lack of leadership has served us reasonably well, although it hasn't been without its problems.

Leadership implies vision, planning, and a willingness on the part of others to follow. Successful leadership implies that the person with the vision can actually see straight- in fact, it requires them to not only see straight,but to see into the future a fair way, which is obviously not something that can be consistently relied upon. Unfortunately leadership usually comes with a desire to see visions come to fruition and to execute plans as written. That desire sometimes overpowers the more essential need to monitor and change plans and even destinations when circumstances change. Leaders sometimes lead their teams off the nearest cliff because they're too busy chasing the vision in their head to keep their eyes on where they're actually going.

RE: Why should I become a Leader?

Apparently pandamon is now leading to such an extent that he is not detectable anymore:)

RE: Why should I become a Leader?

What are we considering to be a leading position? Leading a team of electricians on a job? Leader a team of engineers on projects? I guess I am confused as to what a "leader" is in this field...

Designing projects/equipment is leading and having others build/complete it in the field?

Personally I would love to be on a team and get some experience with group working etc and hopefully someday (soon)!

RE: Why should I become a Leader?

AgeXVII, well, I'll pass along one fact about team work for you, it is this:

A team cannot move faster than its' slowest member.

Regards,

Mike

RE: Why should I become a Leader?

Mike,

Yes I have heard that before and completely agree unless the team leaves that member in the dust and does everything around/without them which isn't good or helpful for anyone. I just wanted to know in the sense of the original post what were they calling a leader. I personally love being on teams and working with others but currently I am not in that position.


-AJ

RE: Why should I become a Leader?

Because the old grind away in silence at your desk or in your cube doing the same calculations or design for the umpteenth time can get a bit old. But leading a group of other folks to do all the grinding, while you get to meet with clients, attend meetings, tell others what to do, and check everyone elses work while getting them to do it more or less your way can have its own rewards too. It's not for everyone, because ultimately YOU have to take ALL the responsibility for your team as its leader--when you are successful it reflects mostly on you--and that can be a great career booster. Plus, you get more money--not such a bad thing either. The other benefit is that you are far more able to network when you are team leader since you will meet far many more key people in the field that the guy at his desk who never leaves the office will never meet.

RE: Why should I become a Leader?

I'm with Pamela on this one. I am considered a leader or lead where I work and am supervised by a manager. He has to do all the hard work, budgets, evaluations, take the heat for my candid remarks ... I am paid about the same as he is and to this day am amazed when senior people come to me for advice or I can talk down an angry customer and get him to agree with me in short order. I guess that's leadership or being a leader.

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