Man made coal
Man made coal
(OP)
Saw an article yesterday, which I can't find, about operating steam trains on man made coal. I did find this article, however:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17912_3-10200246-72.html
Has anyone seen interest in this technology?
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17912_3-10200246-72.html
Has anyone seen interest in this technology?





RE: Man made coal
But, fuel supply aside, steam locomotives are maintenance- intensive beasts, and the people with the necessary skills are mostly gone, as is also true of the shops, the tools, and the wayside water replenishment infrastructure.
Massive government intervention might offset the superior economics of Diesels, but even today's massive governments don't have that kind of money, and the skill shortage is not so easily or quickly overcome.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Man made coal
Coalition for Sustainable Rail
I think it's interesting, and as a railfan, assuming it's proves worthwhile, it may prolong the life of steam engines and for me at least, that in and of itself is a good thing. That being said, however, the inherent design of the steam engine will not compare favorably (pulling power, constant tractive power, etc) with a diesel-electric so I don't see steam doing any more than excursion work. But again, I hope to see steam on the rails for a long time.
Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein
RE: Man made coal
RE: Man made coal
David, While this is true to a point, there are details that are keeping electric trains from taking over. One would be a common voltage source/ level. Another is the cost of building the cantanery.
The Denver light rail for example runs on 800V DC, and requires several converter stations to keep the voltage level as the trains go by. I'm not sure how they handle regeneration.
There are also issues of cost of keeping constant tention on the cantanery, which keeps cantanery sections short.
I guess we could use a phase to phase transformer to convert two phase to single phase for the railroad. But what do you do on the transitions between the power grids?
I also like steam, and even older stoker power plants (which can burn up to 10% wood chips), but the emittion levels are a concern. The burning of man made coal (treatment on the input), should reduce the treatment needed on the output.
The concern would be the cost with other fuels.
RE: Man made coal
I can remember those magnificent beasts from my childhood - nothing like it - unles you traveled on one because that was the days before air conditioned coaches too and the soot came in the windows and got on everything.
I can also remember Mamma talking about being so poor that they walked the railroad tracks to pick up lumps of spilled coal to cook and heat with. Maybe there's hope for the poor (losers from the war on poverty) in this concept too.
rmw
RE: Man made coal
With the extra weight of all those engines, diesel traction might have some advantage for cargo transport, but that doesn't seem to make diesel any more popular in Europe, if at all.
All these and more are electric.
http://www.renfe.com/EN/empresa/comunicacion/productos_trenes/index.html
http://www.eurail.com/trains-europe/high-speed-trains/ice
http://www.italiarail.com/italian-high-speed-trains
http://www.raileurope.com/train-faq/european-trains/tgv/how-to-book.html
What would you be doing, if you knew that you could not fail? Ans. Bonds and derivative brokering.
RE: Man made coal
The other may be that because of the lower density of automoble trafic, they have a larger ridership of passangers. Where as in the US only a few passangers lines are self paying.
Most of the rail lines in the us carry freight, so much so that over 50% of the freight is carried by rail. In europe the freight number is around 10%.
In europe much more cargo travels by the slower river barge (I assume slower is lower cost, or why use it). In the US the rail trafic moves slower, mainly because of the trafic density (There are some equipment, and people shortages also).
In essesence our railroad operates like europes river barge.
However I have been seeing trains here pulled by two or more 4000 HP engines, so at about 1kw/HP, that would translate to 8MW moving load. If we assume a cantaneory voltage of 800 V, the cantaneory would need to be able to deliver a 10,000 amp or more to a train. Again we have a standard or cost issue.
RE: Man made coal
The other may be that because of the lower density of automoble trafic, they have a larger ridership of passangers. Where as in the US only a few passangers lines are self paying.
Most of the rail lines in the us carry freight, so much so that over 50% of the freight is carried by rail. In europe the freight number is around 10%.
In europe much more cargo travels by the slower river barge (I assume slower is lower cost, or why use it). In the US the rail trafic moves slower, mainly because of the trafic density (There are some equipment, and people shortages also).
In essesence our railroad operates like europes river barge.
However I have been seeing trains here pulled by two or more 4000 HP engines, so at about 1kw/HP, that would translate to 8MW moving load. If we assume a cantaneory voltage of 800 V, the cantaneory would need to be able to deliver a 10,000 amp or more to a train. Again we have a standard or cost issue.
RE: Man made coal
RE: Man made coal
In fact many tunnels in the eastern US are being dalighted for the same reason.
The orignal article I saw is in Trains magizene. The man made coal looks like big Kingford cubes. These apperently are made from wood, and could be made from wood scraps. However I do question how difficult it would be to get enough wood for a number of coal fired trains.
In the same magizene there is also an article on companies using vegitable or anamial fat derived diesel substitutes.
RE: Man made coal
I loved the old steam locomotive engines of my childhood. I remember the change to diesels. I also have a strong affinity for the corlyss engines and the old 'two lunger' pumps of my early career days, but I realize that none of those are coming back regardless of the fuel available - except as novelties maybe.
rmw
RE: Man made coal
However, with the green movement we must adapt to stay above the law's iron fist.
No I am not a greenie, but thought it interesting. This is sort of like thumbing you nose at anti-coal movement.
RE: Man made coal
RE: Man made coal
Lets see, coal is solid carbon, but if we use a process to add hydrogen, can we convert it to natural gas?
RE: Man made coal
rmw
RE: Man made coal
RE: Man made coal
Besides if I wash my stockings and someone put coal in them, I would be quite mad.
I don't know of many people who still burn coal in there homes for heat. Wood seems to work better, but dosen't last as long.
RE: Man made coal
RE: Man made coal
RE: Man made coal
RE: Man made coal