Should I move on or stick it out?
Should I move on or stick it out?
(OP)
I need some career advice.
Where I'm at in my career: I'm working at a consulting firm of seven people (4 of which are engineers). I've worked at this firm for ~6 months. I'm an E.I.T. and only one year out of school. I worked for my previous employer (a large testing company) for ~9 months. Before that I worked a paid internship as a cad operator and machine designer.
All of that said, I had planned on working at my current firm for the next few years. I currently work with several PE's and figured this would be the best place to work until I've earned a PE license myself. The work is interesting and I'd like to continue working with the company.
The problem is that I'm not being paid on a regular basis. Payday will come and I won't receive a check. The first time it happened the boss talked to me and said that he could pay me after the weekend. Now he doesn't say anything. I'm also not paid per diem when I'm owed it, and even though I declined health insurance the money has been withdrawn from each of my checks (This can't be legal, right?).
I don't want my resume to look like I'm hopping from job to job. However, I've been told that job hopping isn't looked down upon as much as it once was. So, should I cut my losses immediately and find another job? Wait this one out and look for a new gig? Or just deal with the current job until I've been there more than a year? Any advice is appreciated.
Where I'm at in my career: I'm working at a consulting firm of seven people (4 of which are engineers). I've worked at this firm for ~6 months. I'm an E.I.T. and only one year out of school. I worked for my previous employer (a large testing company) for ~9 months. Before that I worked a paid internship as a cad operator and machine designer.
All of that said, I had planned on working at my current firm for the next few years. I currently work with several PE's and figured this would be the best place to work until I've earned a PE license myself. The work is interesting and I'd like to continue working with the company.
The problem is that I'm not being paid on a regular basis. Payday will come and I won't receive a check. The first time it happened the boss talked to me and said that he could pay me after the weekend. Now he doesn't say anything. I'm also not paid per diem when I'm owed it, and even though I declined health insurance the money has been withdrawn from each of my checks (This can't be legal, right?).
I don't want my resume to look like I'm hopping from job to job. However, I've been told that job hopping isn't looked down upon as much as it once was. So, should I cut my losses immediately and find another job? Wait this one out and look for a new gig? Or just deal with the current job until I've been there more than a year? Any advice is appreciated.





RE: Should I move on or stick it out?
Good on ya,
Goober Dave
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RE: Should I move on or stick it out?
I'd put on your life preserver if I were you.
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
http://mmcengineering.tripod.com
RE: Should I move on or stick it out?
RE: Should I move on or stick it out?
I'd sit down with whoever is doing the payroll and try to straighten out the per diem and withholding. If you can't work it out with the person preparing the checks then there is probably something pretty awful going on.
I'd have my resume current and ready to send to the world before that conversation. If you don't get satisfaction I'd send the resume to the world.
If you decide to talk to a lawyer, make sure that you have complete records of what they've done and not done that they were supposed to/not supposed to do. Wasting a lawyer's time with partial data gets really expensive really quickly.
The job hopping issue is kind of messy. Many of us old guys will look at two resume's and assign preferences to the one with the fewest job skips. Trouble is that too many job openings today don't get multiple qualified resumes. If I'm comparing one guy to himself, then if he can consistently spell his name the same way he gets all kinds of brownie points. In short job-hopping used to be really negative, now it might be a tie breaker at most.
When I started, there was an expectation that as long as I got paid regularly and didn't get caught doing anything that would get the company on "60 Minutes", I would be there till I retired or died. MBA's got involved and decided that people were commodities that didn't deserve any more consideration than a bolt. When companies started going back on the implied contract of longevity, individuals stopped caring about it as well. Any hiring manager that ever questions your multiple jobs should get "and what is the duration-guarantee of this assignment?"
David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering
"Belief" is the acceptance of an hypotheses in the absence of data.
"Prejudice" is having an opinion not supported by the preponderance of the data.
"Knowledge" is only found through the accumulation and analysis of data.
RE: Should I move on or stick it out?
If this was me I would be looking hard elsewhere but I would also be asking the guys around me to find out what is going on.
http://www.nceng.com.au/
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."
RE: Should I move on or stick it out?
Are you a contractor or an employee? If the latter, then for your employer to not make payroll is inexcusable by any measure. If the former...it's a bit different, but either way, if there's no cheque, then neither is there any work.
RE: Should I move on or stick it out?
Good luck,
Latexman
RE: Should I move on or stick it out?
In small businesses I know enough about, the owners always pay staff first then contractors then rent then incidentals then themselves.
Regards
Pat
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RE: Should I move on or stick it out?
Thanks for the advice and questions. They've really helped me think through my situation. I know most, if not all who posted, have 100x more experience than myself. I guess since not a single one of you encouraged me to stay I should take that as the biggest piece if advice.
To answer a few of your questions I am an employee, not a contractor. We actually work out of the owner/bosse's house...so there is no rent. Also, I have spoken to the other engineers. We're all dealing with the same mess and each has discussed jumping ship.
RE: Should I move on or stick it out?
What might happen if all those owed money left to form their own business with someone competent in business management delegated to sending out invoices, collecting money owed and paying bills on time.
Heck you might even employ your current boss as sales manager on a commission only basis. Commissions to be paid within 30 days of customer invoice paid. Also the business manager must approve all customers and all orders.
Regards
Pat
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RE: Should I move on or stick it out?
Good luck,
Latexman
RE: Should I move on or stick it out?
Would you want shares in either a company who cannot pay it's payroll or one who can but won't. I certainly would not unless convinced that there where good but not obvious reasons unless the current management was replaced with no chance of regaining control.
Regards
Pat
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RE: Should I move on or stick it out?
RE: Should I move on or stick it out?
Regards
Pat
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RE: Should I move on or stick it out?
Good luck,
Latexman
RE: Should I move on or stick it out?
How many do you need?
RE: Should I move on or stick it out?
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Should I move on or stick it out?
RE: Should I move on or stick it out?
Adding to Latexmans post
There are two types of employers in a situation like yours, those who cannot pay you, and those that willnot pay you.
First check with the other employees and see if everybody is being short changed. If that is the case then see if the boss is strapped for cash and is waiting for somebody else to pay him. This happens in hard times when payments drag out and banks are reluctant to make bridging loans. If the guy is up fron about it you may have a chance there.
The other type of employer is bad news and should be gotten away from as soon as you can do so, they will just suck you into a black hole.
I had the mis- fortune to work for one of these snakes, as a contractor for a short time, after I was laid off from General Dynamics, when they closed their San Diego facility. To make a long story short, they got six sets of floor beams for a C17 out of me for nothing, which they sent to MacDac certified as being produced under the fair labor standards act. And the owner of the company was laughing to me about the fact that he had done so.He told me that, if I took it to court, that he had enough money to outlast me.
B.E.
The good engineer does not need to memorize every formula; he just needs to know where he can find them when he needs them. Old professor
RE: Should I move on or stick it out?
[link ]B.E.[/link]
A previous employer tried that line on me. He was wrong, but only just. By the time he settled I got about half what was owed and about 10 years later during which time the cost of housing in Sydney more than doubled. Yes, it was about the value of my house in dispute and I was a contractor. Net result, I could not replace my house but it cost him at least double what he really owed me. Well worth it to see the thieving $%##$ squirm. Oh and the damage to reputations has harmed us both, but he a lot more than me. Mud sticks no matter what.
Regards
Pat
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RE: Should I move on or stick it out?
This guy got me when I was down, I had just been laid off from GD. We had recently purchased a house, then my wife got laid off from her job. I was just barely making the house payments, and finding a lawyer to go after this guy, whilst desirable was not practical at the time, and by the way this is now 18 years ago.
The thing I can do now, is warn people about jobs that seem too good to be true, they usually are.
B.E.
The good engineer does not need to memorize every formula; he just needs to know where he can find them when he needs them. Old professor
RE: Should I move on or stick it out?
"Gorgeous hair is the best revenge." Ivana Trump
RE: Should I move on or stick it out?
One, we are not lawyers and two, laws vary greatly from state to state and even more from country to country. Heck in some states they even vary by industry or employer.
Regards
Pat
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RE: Should I move on or stick it out?
Link
"Gorgeous hair is the best revenge." Ivana Trump
RE: Should I move on or stick it out?
I have been in a similar situation where I worked in a small office, owner and 3 total employees, and we started to not get paid regularly. We all knew the reasoning was our transition from residential work to more commercial projects, and the difference in pay schedule from clients. My boss could not grasp the billing cycle based on milestones. I decided to leave for a new employer, and while I felt bad at the time for "abandoning my co-workers", I am always glad that I did. No none will look after you better than yourself. As others have posted, the lack of a regular pay check is a warning sign. How many warnings do you need? I would actively start the hunt for new employment.
"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."
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RE: Should I move on or stick it out?
If any boss that failed to pay me had the gall to tell me that I don't understand, he would get an earful of profanity followed by a groin-ful of boot.