Being Charged as a Subcontractor for Electronic Files
Being Charged as a Subcontractor for Electronic Files
(OP)
My company designs and manufactures greenhouses, and we often end up subcontracting with architects or general contractors to design and provide a greenhouse that attaches to a larger building project. We've just gotten a new contract, and we asked for some CAD files from the architect in order for us to overlay our structure onto for preliminary design and drawing. They've come back and asked for a fee of $100 per sheet. We checked the spec and there is a section in the beginning that lays out fees for providing electronic drawing files to subcontractors. We do have PDFs that we can work with, but obviously it's easier to overlay and coordinate stuff with CAD files. We've never run into this sort of fee from an architect before, and we've worked with several. Is this standard? Seems very strange to us, a big hindrance to communication and coordination.





RE: Being Charged as a Subcontractor for Electronic Files
One comment - if you purchase a sheet, I would assume that means you are also entitled to recieve all future revisions and updates of that sheet at no charge, unless those changes are your fault. But that is an assumption worth confirming with the architect.
RE: Being Charged as a Subcontractor for Electronic Files
Some of our subs are reluctant to share CAD data with us for IP reasons. I'd be happy to pay them a few extra $ to get it!
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Being Charged as a Subcontractor for Electronic Files
RE: Being Charged as a Subcontractor for Electronic Files
TTFN

FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
RE: Being Charged as a Subcontractor for Electronic Files
Thanks for pointing out a disturbing possible trend to look out for. I'll be on guard.
Good on ya,
Goober Dave
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RE: Being Charged as a Subcontractor for Electronic Files
Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East - http://www.campbellcivil.com
RE: Being Charged as a Subcontractor for Electronic Files
RE: Being Charged as a Subcontractor for Electronic Files
RE: Being Charged as a Subcontractor for Electronic Files
RE: Being Charged as a Subcontractor for Electronic Files
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RE: Being Charged as a Subcontractor for Electronic Files
RE: Being Charged as a Subcontractor for Electronic Files
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"Is it the only lesson of history that mankind is unteachable?"
--Winston S. Churchill
RE: Being Charged as a Subcontractor for Electronic Files
Charging for electronic files is a common practice in Architecture / Engineering / Design consultancies. There are numerous reasons:
Some principals see it as another legitimite revenue earner.
Fee estimation by pricing deliverables is a common practice, therefore the more deliverables you have the higher your fee; in an effort to provide a lowest price possible principals exclude electronic files but add your infamous line regarding extra cost per.
Many principals are overly concerned with accountability and believe releasing electronic files is too dangerous, even afraid of the cut-paste or their individual style convention change by some moron who doesn't care about line, color, etc.
Many are concerned about being ripped off: "What's to stop them from cancelling the job and just updating the design themselves" is a common fear in consultancies. This is probably the most common concern I've heard at consultancies, even with extreme, foul language virulence by certain principals.
Also, third party rights ownership is a concern, not obvious, but legally important. Consultancies are concerned that the design they do is to be used as per the contract and not later resold, modified and built, or some such configuration. The terms and conditions will often spell out third party rights. Consultancies often see releasing electronic files as breaching any third party rights claim in their contract.
RE: Being Charged as a Subcontractor for Electronic Files
"What's to stop them from cancelling the job and just updating the design themselves"
"third party rights ownership is a concern"
And $100 per sheet covers all that? If it's supposed to cover the revenue that they might have gotten, then the process winds up double dipping on labor costs, where half the labor costs are disguised as material cost for the sheets. If they're giving up ownership for $100 per sheet, that seems silly.
But, if their customer paid for creation of those drawings, then they ought not have full ownership rights anyway.
TTFN

faq731-376
RE: Being Charged as a Subcontractor for Electronic Files
As the owners representative, we always stipulate that the drawings belong to us, and we will be provided with the CAD drawings at the end of the project to do with as we please. Their has been some complaints about "certified drawings" and liability. We added a clause to our contracts that stipulates that the only certified drawings are ones that are printed and stamped by the designer, all other drawnings are just for review. It has been a sticking point in several contract negotiations, but our view was that the CAD file is really what is valuable for the reasons mentioned by gbuel.
Regards
StoneCold
RE: Being Charged as a Subcontractor for Electronic Files
I'm actually favor not sending out CAD structural drawings unless I'm use to working with the sub. When I send CAD files out, I feel like we are skipping a step in coordination and the traditional shop drawing process. No longer does the sub have to coordinate his details with other specialities and "think through" the work he is about to do. COPY and PASTE my details and he's done. No thought required. Also, I'm getting paid to produce PDF files for the Construction Documents, not CAD files. More time and a higher fee would be required for perfect to scale CAD files.