I have a wood framed project with 4" brick veneer. The veneer bears on a shelf on the foundation wall and extends 42' tall. Per code we can only go about 33' without needing a releiving angle. Has anyone attached a relieving angle for clay masonry brick to wood framing. Neither me or my boss have a good feeling on attaching the releiving angle to the wood, and it will likely increase our header sizes to maintain an L/600 deflection and the releiving angle. The wall construction is 2x6 at 16" o.c with 1/2" exterior sheathing and 3" cavity between the sheathing and rear face of the veneer.
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Stone Veneer on Wood
- Thread starter nhstruct
- Start date
concretemasonry
Structural
What code has a 42" height limit between vertical supports or relieving angles?
Normally, brick veneer usually is limited to 2 stories height between angles, but some codes or architects allow more. It sounds like you have the classic 3" +or- cavity for rigid insulation and an air space for circulation and flashing.
Dick
Engineer and international traveler interested in construction techniques, problems and proper design.
Normally, brick veneer usually is limited to 2 stories height between angles, but some codes or architects allow more. It sounds like you have the classic 3" +or- cavity for rigid insulation and an air space for circulation and flashing.
Dick
Engineer and international traveler interested in construction techniques, problems and proper design.
You are right in that you header size would increase. In empirical design the ACI 530 says not to support masonry with wood however you can do it if you design for it. You must consider creep which can on the order of 2.5x short term deflection. Can you locate the relief angle at a different elevation than your headers? Another concern may be that the wood may shrink while the the masonry is expanding. Here is a decent read on relief angles:
Also another discussion on masonry deflection:
ACI 530 supporting unreinforced masonry = L/600 and 0.3, reinforced limits do not apply. Section 1.10 commentary
Deflection of walls out of plane held to 0.007. Test by SEAOSC/ACI committe rcommended 0.01h. (See RMHB 6.5.3.I)
I don't think I've really answered your question but maybe this is helpful.
EIT
Also another discussion on masonry deflection:
ACI 530 supporting unreinforced masonry = L/600 and 0.3, reinforced limits do not apply. Section 1.10 commentary
Deflection of walls out of plane held to 0.007. Test by SEAOSC/ACI committe rcommended 0.01h. (See RMHB 6.5.3.I)
I don't think I've really answered your question but maybe this is helpful.
EIT
Done several of these. You would be right to be conservative and check the size of the relief joint for shrinkage of the wood structure. All headers should be checked for their deflections too as you mentioned.
The treatment would be very similar to any shelf angle but you have a wood connection and the bearing of the backside of the shelf angle on wood backup. A lot of time this may be lag screws into studs (not my favorite). Extra safety factor for fastener bearing creep here may be in order, YMMV. If you can get the joint at the floor deck for some real meat into a extra beefy rim-joist that is maybe a good way to go. Also then the rim will provide some extra stiffness for the headers downstream. Some concern for quality installer here and don't forget those vertical joints too in your flexible tall masonry wall. I usually spec out better masonry ties and spacing too on these tall wall with wood backup especially around the window openings.
MAP
The treatment would be very similar to any shelf angle but you have a wood connection and the bearing of the backside of the shelf angle on wood backup. A lot of time this may be lag screws into studs (not my favorite). Extra safety factor for fastener bearing creep here may be in order, YMMV. If you can get the joint at the floor deck for some real meat into a extra beefy rim-joist that is maybe a good way to go. Also then the rim will provide some extra stiffness for the headers downstream. Some concern for quality installer here and don't forget those vertical joints too in your flexible tall masonry wall. I usually spec out better masonry ties and spacing too on these tall wall with wood backup especially around the window openings.
MAP
Is that 33' limit a code requirement or just a recommendation? I would much prefer the 42' tall veneer to be supported vertically at the footing level. There are too many issues involved in supporting relieving angles and masonry on timber framing. I have an old Brick Institute of America Technical Note which suggests limiting the self-supporting height to 100'.
Your title says "Stone veneer", but you then go on to talk about a brick veneer.
Your title says "Stone veneer", but you then go on to talk about a brick veneer.
concretemasonry
Structural
The 33' is probably a prescriptive code requirement. Other jurisdictions may have other prescriptive requirements.
The reason is the fact that wood frame shrinks and most clay or stone products do not, so there is a differential in the end that can tear apart flashing and interfere with with window openings. Clay poses a more severe problem because it has a long term EXPANSION that is opposite to the wood shrinkage. Most prescriptive codes are written for categories of materials and stone or clay brick that are lumped together to arrive at the common industry standards. Temperatures also have an effect on the local prescriptive requirements.
The 33' limit fits the typical wood frame/masonry apartment building.
Dick
Engineer and international traveler interested in construction techniques, problems and proper design.
The reason is the fact that wood frame shrinks and most clay or stone products do not, so there is a differential in the end that can tear apart flashing and interfere with with window openings. Clay poses a more severe problem because it has a long term EXPANSION that is opposite to the wood shrinkage. Most prescriptive codes are written for categories of materials and stone or clay brick that are lumped together to arrive at the common industry standards. Temperatures also have an effect on the local prescriptive requirements.
The 33' limit fits the typical wood frame/masonry apartment building.
Dick
Engineer and international traveler interested in construction techniques, problems and proper design.
- Thread starter
- #7
Thank you for the responses, the 33' limit is what we found in ACI-530. We have not determined exactly where the releiving angles will go yet, but we are thiniking we will need one at the 3rd floor level, and 4th floor level. As the code also recommends only 12' tall of brick when supported on wood framing. Part of our concern is that the floor is going to be constructed with wood trusses (top chord bearing), and due to the span we need the full width of the wall to make the bearing work, so we will only have a single or most likely a double ribbion board inbetween the trusses. focuseng you siad that you have used lag screws before, our concern woth lags is that over time they could rip out of the wood as it expands and contracts. Our thought was to use thur-bolts, but since the holes are slightly bigger than the bolts, we are concerned that the angle is going to rotate with and the wood expands and contracts. one though was wo us LSL ribbons as these are more stable and will experiance less expansion and contractions, thus leading to a better connect. typically when we have a situation like this we put a steel frame on the first floor and pick up the brick from there, since when support on steel code allows up to 30' tall, but this architects hates using steel for anything but first floor framing between the garage and 1st floor.
- Thread starter
- #9
MiketheEngineer
Structural
1 and 2 story brick veneers done around here all the time - resting on foundation shelf.. Just make sure they are well "tied" to your wall..
The idea behind the relieving angle is only to help the expansion of the masonry veneer and the shrinking of the structure. As explained the article I previously posted the brick will not crush. As far as bolting and rotation - won't the angle be sandwiched against the rim board? How would it rotate?
EIT
EIT
concretemasonry
Structural
The spacing of reliving supports (with "soft" joints)has been documented for decades and is not a structural requirement/situation but a serviceability point that affects the use of dissimilar materials that move differently in a multi-wythe wall.
I saw a 6 story building where the casement windows on the upper floors (no relieving angles obviously)could not be opened because of the differential heights between inner structure and the exterior clay brick that went through the predictable long term expansion. This was one of many problems that created the inclusion of relieving angle spacing in ACI 530.
Dick
Engineer and international traveler interested in construction techniques, problems and proper design.
I saw a 6 story building where the casement windows on the upper floors (no relieving angles obviously)could not be opened because of the differential heights between inner structure and the exterior clay brick that went through the predictable long term expansion. This was one of many problems that created the inclusion of relieving angle spacing in ACI 530.
Dick
Engineer and international traveler interested in construction techniques, problems and proper design.
If you can get the shelf angle at the rim locations then you might consider a double "L" where one is inverted from the other or other similar configuration with a plate welded on. The shelf angle can then be installed like a top mount hanger flange on the top plates of the wall where the joist sit. You will have bearing issues at the wall for your joists vs the top mount flange but I can see this overcome with some creative effort (spaced top flanges). The only downside to this may be the heat sink factor. I'll draw a picture if you don't get this.
I also appreciate your concern with the lags not holding over time but In my experience this has not been an issue with good contractors. Why is this any different than a deck ledger on a house? OK, maybe not the best example
The deck is certainly be a more troubled situation.
One other thought is to install a wood ledger under the shelf angle as a backup fastener in addition to the shelf angle fastening. This may mean more air gap at the veneer but another thought nonetheless. - Similar to when doing a wood beam supporting masonry I put down a steel angle on top of it and then the masonry goes on.
I also appreciate your concern with the lags not holding over time but In my experience this has not been an issue with good contractors. Why is this any different than a deck ledger on a house? OK, maybe not the best example
The deck is certainly be a more troubled situation.One other thought is to install a wood ledger under the shelf angle as a backup fastener in addition to the shelf angle fastening. This may mean more air gap at the veneer but another thought nonetheless. - Similar to when doing a wood beam supporting masonry I put down a steel angle on top of it and then the masonry goes on.
42' is not terribly excessive for height of self-supporting masonry, & I'd never support more than a nominal amount of masonry on wood framing so I think you're far better foregoing the angle. Our code (Ontario) doesn't permit supporting any masonry on wood without some pretty thorough proof that it won't deflect or crack. A big issue in your height will be the differential shrinkage though, as a couple of guys have pointed out; I've seen shrinkage of wood framing in 2-storey buildings cracking the glazing because there was no room at the masonry sills.
MiketheEngineer
Structural
I have to get NEW GLASSES - thought he was working with 42 inches!!
Just ran across this reference in an alternate search for something.
In ACI530-02/TMS402-02:
Chapter 6, Veneer
6.2.2.3.1.5 Exterior masonry veneer having an installed weight of 40 psf or less and height of no more than 12 ft are permitted to be supported on wood construction when installed in compliance with the provisions of this Chapter. A vertical movement joint in the masonry veneer shall be used to isolate the veneer supported by wood construction from that supported by the foundation. Masonry shall be designed and constructed so that masonry is not in direct contact with wood. The horizontally spanning element supporting the masonry veneer shall be designed so that deflection due to dead plus live loads does not exceed l/600 nor 0.3 in.
Also note that Table 6.2.2.3.1 gives height limits from foundation for masonry veneer backed by wood of 30 ft at plate and 38 ft at gable.
Hope this helps somebody.
In ACI530-02/TMS402-02:
Chapter 6, Veneer
6.2.2.3.1.5 Exterior masonry veneer having an installed weight of 40 psf or less and height of no more than 12 ft are permitted to be supported on wood construction when installed in compliance with the provisions of this Chapter. A vertical movement joint in the masonry veneer shall be used to isolate the veneer supported by wood construction from that supported by the foundation. Masonry shall be designed and constructed so that masonry is not in direct contact with wood. The horizontally spanning element supporting the masonry veneer shall be designed so that deflection due to dead plus live loads does not exceed l/600 nor 0.3 in.
Also note that Table 6.2.2.3.1 gives height limits from foundation for masonry veneer backed by wood of 30 ft at plate and 38 ft at gable.
Hope this helps somebody.
hokie66,
The MSJC is a joint committee comprised of The Masonry Society, ACI, and ASCE. They put together the MSJC document which has call numbers for each participant. ACI's is 530.
The combination of these groups is due to the fact that the MSJC has both clay and concrete masonry units included in the code/specification.
The MSJC is a joint committee comprised of The Masonry Society, ACI, and ASCE. They put together the MSJC document which has call numbers for each participant. ACI's is 530.
The combination of these groups is due to the fact that the MSJC has both clay and concrete masonry units included in the code/specification.
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