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Lifting Lugs on Pressure Vessel in Alberta Certified by P.Eng in AB?

Lifting Lugs on Pressure Vessel in Alberta Certified by P.Eng in AB?

Lifting Lugs on Pressure Vessel in Alberta Certified by P.Eng in AB?

(OP)
I noticed some datasheets for pressure vessels used in Alberta state: The lifting lug design shall be certified by a Professional Engineer registered in Alberta. (The initiator of the DS left our company.) The problem is the fabricator is in the US without an Alberta P.Eng.

Question is: I don't find any thing from ABSA or specs in house or from Client's side to support the request of a "Professional Engineer registered in Alberta."

The only thing I get is from Alberta Occupational Health and Safety Code 2009 Part 6:
Not commercially manufactured
60 If a lifting device is not commercially manufactured, an employer must ensure that it is fit and safe for use as a lifting device and that it is certified by a professional engineer.

I am not sure what's the relationship between ABSA registration /CRN number and the Alberta Occupational Health and Safety Code. Is it a necessary requirement to meet this code for the lifting lugs in Alberta?

Is it normal to request lifting lugs on Pressure Vessels made in US to be certified by a Alberta P.Eng.?

Thanks guys,

3 years industry experience;
Oil & Gas industry in Canada.

RE: Lifting Lugs on Pressure Vessel in Alberta Certified by P.Eng in AB?

billbusy,

Quote:

I noticed some datasheets for pressure vessels used in Alberta state: The lifting lug design shall be certified by a Professional Engineer registered in Alberta. (The initiator of the DS left our company.) The problem is the fabricator is in the US without an Alberta P.Eng.
I don't see a problem with this. The US fabricator can hire an APEGA registered engineer to stamp for them. Are you sure certification is clearly written down on the P.O. or Scope of Supply? If certification is just stated on some notes on the datasheet, chances are the fabricator has not accounted for the cost. You'll have to pay extra if you still want the certification.

Quote:

Question is: I don't find any thing from ABSA or specs in house or from Client's side to support the request of a "Professional Engineer registered in Alberta."
As far as I know, there are no such requirement from ABSA or the Alberta Occupational Health & Safety Code (AOH&S). Requirements for P.Eng certification is up to the Owner or its agents, which in your case is your engineering company.

Quote:

The only thing I get is from Alberta Occupational Health and Safety Code 2009 Part 6:
Not commercially manufactured
60 If a lifting device is not commercially manufactured, an employer must ensure that it is fit and safe for use as a lifting device and that it is certified by a professional engineer.

I am not sure what's the relationship between ABSA registration /CRN number and the Alberta Occupational Health and Safety Code. Is it a necessary requirement to meet this code for the lifting lugs in Alberta?
"Lifting device" in the AOH&S context refers to a device that lifts or moves an object. They apply to devices like cranes, gantries, jibs, hoists. etc. They don't apply to lifting lugs that are attached to the object being lifted or moved. As far as vessel lifting lugs are concerned, I can only find the design criteria in AOH&S Part 21-Rigging to be applicable (re: 20% of ultimate breaking strength).
 

RE: Lifting Lugs on Pressure Vessel in Alberta Certified by P.Eng in AB?

(OP)
doct9960, thanks for your clear explanation.

1.    In my opinion, the vendor need to provide the service per our bid/PO package, even there will be some extra cost that they didn't realize before.

2.    As I may miss some communication with client before, I just want to find some clues to support why we ask AB P.Eng before. As you said, it should be asked by client or previous package engineer.


3.    I also want to ask you a general question for situation like this one. Practically, will the EPC/Client agree to pay part of the new bill or try to avoid this requirement and get some credits back if it is not critical?
 

3 years industry experience;
Oil & Gas industry in Canada.

RE: Lifting Lugs on Pressure Vessel in Alberta Certified by P.Eng in AB?

(OP)
Plus, that requirement is a note on datasheet but not in Scope of Supply. I don't think that will release the responsibility of the Vendor. Because it is impossible to list everything on SOS and that's also the reason why we specified to refer datasheet or other documents in the bid package.

3 years industry experience;
Oil & Gas industry in Canada.

RE: Lifting Lugs on Pressure Vessel in Alberta Certified by P.Eng in AB?

Quote:

Practically, will the EPC/Client agree to pay part of the new bill or try to avoid this requirement and get some credits back if it is not critical?
If Acts, Regulations, or Codes, require that PV lifting lugs be authenticated by an Alberta P.Eng, then I have no choice but to pay for it. If the requirement for P.Eng stamp is not in any regulations, you need to justify the requirement.

The important thing in PV lifting lug design is that it has been certified by a Professional Engineer. I don't care if the PE is from another state or province.

 

RE: Lifting Lugs on Pressure Vessel in Alberta Certified by P.Eng in AB?

It has been my experience with Alberta that lifting lugs do not require PE stamping.  However, it may be a client requirement depending on the hazard level associated with the lift, i.e. very heavy equipment or cold temperatures.  

I don't necessarily agree that a PE needs to stamp every lift lug.  There are plenty of competent engineers, myself included, that do not hold a PE stamp.  

RE: Lifting Lugs on Pressure Vessel in Alberta Certified by P.Eng in AB?

Hi.On my first dealing with Alberta I purchased the Code and I still got burned.
If the Code says you have to have it certified by a PE then if it is not, your design will not be approved. good luck.
  now: what they mean is that the lift lug has to be approved.
I will do you a big favor: call the ABSA and ask for the approved lift lugs on their books. then list one of those. what about that! then you will not need a PE in Alberta to certify your design.
It's the design they are looking at.
If it was for Ontario the whole vessel would have to be certified by a PE in Ontario.
 

RE: Lifting Lugs on Pressure Vessel in Alberta Certified by P.Eng in AB?

Bill,
I hope this may help.
The following is Pressure Equipment Safety Regulation (PESR) published by ABSA.
http://absa.ca/Forms/AB-516%20PESRUserGuide.pdf
It talks about imported pressure equipment and how to deal with them.
Cheers.

RE: Lifting Lugs on Pressure Vessel in Alberta Certified by P.Eng in AB?

As near as I understand ABSA and pressure vessels, if the vessel itself can be registered and approved by ABSA without P.Eng. stamped drawings, it makes little sense to require stamping of the lifting lug design.  I suspect the intent is more along the lines that there *are* requirements for P.Eng. stamping of lifting or rigging studies, but that has nothing to do with ABSA.  I suspect that this data sheet entry originally came from someone with the mindset that, if the rigging study is to be stamped, then it is expected that the lifting lug design should also be stamped by whoever put the lifting lugs on the vessel.  That way, if the lug fails and they drop the vessel during the lift, they can't sue the lifting company but at least they can sue somebody.

Regards,

SNORGY.

RE: Lifting Lugs on Pressure Vessel in Alberta Certified by P.Eng in AB?

No other requirement is needed. the attachment to the vessel is part of the ASME construction. same as an ANSI pre-certified coupling.
  

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