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Resume padding
3

Resume padding

Resume padding

(OP)
A company I am involved with hired a new executive with exellent credentials. Business exe with MBA, several bachelors degrees and attaboys on several programs
 The new hires contract specified that they be subject to a background check.
 The subject came on board, now three months later the background check company has found, glaring, discrepancies in the information provided ,and there is now serious doubt that some of the degrees are valid.
 The Hr dept terminated this individual citing breach of contract,
in that the qualifications were not as represented.
 My question is, should not Hr have done due diligence  prior to hiring.
Or is it common practice to hire pending an investigation?
B.E.

The good engineer does not need to memorize every formula; he just needs to know where he can find them when he needs them.  Old professor

RE: Resume padding

When a company wants someone in there, they'll hire first and fire later.  Makes sense in a way... if the candidate had to wait three months to be accepted, he may very well accept another job in the meantime.

Of course, in this case it would have been to your benefit...

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

RE: Resume padding

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.  If you later discover all you got is the bird excrement - wash your hands.

RE: Resume padding

BE

I will have a $ each way on this one.

HR should check references as far as possible and make a few phone calls and the applicant should have copies of their formal qualifications with them at the first serious interview. If not, why not.

If some qualifications or references cannot be checked out with a simple phone call, then I agree it might be necessary to hire then do a final check.

If possible, when assessing applicants at the final stage, I normally try to call a friend who I know must have crossed their path professionally, especially one not listed as a reference.

Here, we have unfair dismissal laws, but they do not apply if the application contains lies. That is grounds for immediate dismissal.

 

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &
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RE: Resume padding

(OP)
Pat.
"""Here, we have unfair dismissal laws, but they do not apply if the application contains lies. That is grounds for immediate dismissal."""



That is the basis for dismissal in this case.
B.E.

The good engineer does not need to memorize every formula; he just needs to know where he can find them when he needs them.  Old professor

RE: Resume padding

I'd like to know if this person was given an opportunity to explain the discrepancies.  My fear is that the background check can be flawed.

"Gorgeous hair is the best revenge."  Ivana Trump

RE: Resume padding

When I retired from the Navy, I had my first resume professionally written by someone who (1) did that for a living, and (2) supposedly knew me; I served with her husband twice and we were social acquaintences.  Unfortuantely I didn't recognize the person decribed in the resume and couldn't explain some of the miracles that person was supposedly capable of.  I then wrote my own, with exploits and phrases I could explain and did just fine.  I think some of the professional writers embellish too much and if the person didn't check carefully or trusts the professional ...

RE: Resume padding

If it sounds too good to be true...

In the late 90's my employer was looking for a strategic hire to rebuild the big bridge sector of the company. They found a candidate - the chief engineer showed me the resume and I said there's no way this person could have done all this at his age, his response "I know" - six months after being hired he got clipped, not because he was a phony. The management realized it about two months in. It was because he was trying to push out the man who hired him.    

The management got suckered by a lot of BS on paper that they didn't think clearly before hiring this character.


 

RE: Resume padding

Outsourcing will be the death of us all.
HR could and should have done some superficial checking. It ought to at least have discovered some discrepancies.
You rely on external companies who can do a criminal convictions check, for example but I suspect HR just farmed out the whole checking business and washed their hands.
I would have thought any half way decent company ought to have found out some of the issues straight away.
But of course, they need to take their time getting back to HR to make it look like they actually had to do some hard work.

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

RE: Resume padding

(OP)
In this case, after the red flags were raised the person could simply have produced the degree or diploma. They were unable or unwilling to do that. They were also unwilling or unable to name the professors they worked with as students at the university mentioned.

MacGyverS2000 (Electrical) hit it on the head, the guy sounded too good to miss. And as they say, if it sounds too good it probabaly is.

The next red flag was the guys performance.  Not of the quality expected.
Why people do this is beyond me,  simple fact checking revealed the guy to be a fake.
 I also found out this week that HR did not bother to fact check this guys resume until the performance issues surfaced, so there is some egg on the face in that dept.
B.E.
 

The good engineer does not need to memorize every formula; he just needs to know where he can find them when he needs them.  Old professor

RE: Resume padding

Basic due diligence does not take that long...degree confirmation can be done in a few hours.  There are several services that will do this for you or you can do it yourself.

Criminal records can be checked in a matter of minutes; provided the person has not lived in many different locations.

I often run background checks on contractors who bid on my projects.  If something seems awry, their bids are disqualified.  Had to do that a couple of weeks ago.

RE: Resume padding

My last company, after I left, apparently hired someone "too good to be true" and only figured out he was an illegal immigrant who had lifted his resume and identity off the internet, presumably.
They figured it out when he failed to turn up for work but the Border Control people did.
HR hadn't done their checks either.....
... But he only lasted about a week so too soon perhaps for performance issues to emerge.

 

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

RE: Resume padding

I hope that HR at least checked this guy's Facebook profile before hiring him.laughtears

RE: Resume padding

(OP)
The tick,
No they did not,However they did check his linked in profile which glowed. Strangely enough, after this all surfaced, his linked in profile was severely edited and a large number of contacts and recommendations were removed.
B.E.

The good engineer does not need to memorize every formula; he just needs to know where he can find them when he needs them.  Old professor

RE: Resume padding

Theres a whole new industry forming around faking people's resumes, their credentials, and providing false references.  They'll even direct phone calls to fake call centers where they'll pretend to be HR reps from fake companies, to fool the real HR reps doing the background check.

It's getting highly complicated.  The problem is compounded by the fact that many high level exec positions are basically just about BSing e people around you anyway, so these BSers are actually rather qualified for what the actual job entails.

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East - http://www.campbellcivil.com

RE: Resume padding

Did he have previous experience at Vandelay Industries or Dunder-Mifflin?

RE: Resume padding

careerexcuse - brilliant!

RE: Resume padding

Two companies ago, we hired a female engineer, resume stated a five-year period as "Senior Design Engineer" with Alderson, Inc.  Reference check was glowing with praise and dripping with remorse that they had lost her.

After it became obvious that she had never designed anything before (about one month into her employment), HR got to doing what it should have in the first place. They did a background check. Turns out Alderson, Inc. was really FPC Alderson (FPC = Federal Prison Camp).  She had done a five-year sentence for fraud.  

They didn't bother trying to track down who was on the other end of the reference phone call.

Amazing gall!

Good on ya,

Goober Dave

Haven't see the forum policies?  Do so now: Forum Policies
 

RE: Resume padding

A company I once worked at hired a structural engineer, who appeared to have a consistent employment rotation every 12 months for at least 5 years.

I don't know what was said during reference checks, but the question was asked of HR and they assured the appropriate parties that this person checked out.

Obviously said engineer had been through all of this sort of thing before, as it wasn't noticed just how much of a turkey this person was until well after the probation period had expired.

Apparently this person was actually somewhat competent at Structural Engineering, but the resume had failed to indicate their other skills, such as using a condescending air when talking to anyone in earshot, and delightfully telling clients that they were wrong and hadn't done things properly.

Part of the issue came to light when a client mentioned that he would want to resort to physical violence if we brought him to another client meeting. (Something like I'd want to smack him in the nose if he turns up again)

We spent the next 12 months attempting to remove said engineer from our employment.

In short, whilst its a good idea to get HR to do the background screening, its also a very good idea to keep an eye on them in the probation period...

RE: Resume padding

Simple solution is to offer them a new post (a promotion) with a new probation period and then use the new post to sack them within the probationary period. (but don't, as at my first employer with one of the Girl Fridays, forget when the probationary period ends. They sacked her just after and it cost them a packet).

The promotion will look good on their resume and they may be deluded into thinking they have at last  found their niche and will accept happily. (Anyone who hasn't learned after a sequence of sackings is obviously self deluded). Hopefully the competition will employ them.
When questioned: "This employees performance fully warranted our promotion of him/her to a new position." (So we could sack him easily).

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

RE: Resume padding

(OP)
JMW,
Now that is kicking someone upstairs with a vengeance.
B.E.

The good engineer does not need to memorize every formula; he just needs to know where he can find them when he needs them.  Old professor

RE: Resume padding

Not my idea, just observing the world in action and looking carefully anytime anyone offers me something that looks good.

JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

RE: Resume padding

"I'd like to know if this person was given an opportunity to explain the discrepancies.  My fear is that the background check can be flawed."

Six years ago I was applying for a job and the application asked if I had ever been arrested.  Well back in college I did have some minor trouble with the law but I had the charges expunged.  Since from what I gather companies frequently perform background checks after the employee starts, and discrepancies result in termination, I wanted to see what would come up in a background check on myself (since I planned on answer no to the question about arrests).  So I went on the internet and found a website where I could run a background check on anyone for $40.  To my surprise an arson conviction and a check forgery conviction came up. Apparently there is someone in Florida with my first and last name(and this is unusual because I don't have a common name at all).  A quick review of the results clearly indicate it wasn't me because the other guy with the same name is 20 years older than me.  But knowning some of the idiots who work in HR roles, I could easily see how misinformation that comes up during a background check could cost somebody a job.  I wonder how often a potential or current employer gives an individual a chance to explain any discrepancies on a resume or job application?

RE: Resume padding

(OP)
Spongebob,
This individual was given the chance to explain or produce diplomas, and chose not to.
B.E.

The good engineer does not need to memorize every formula; he just needs to know where he can find them when he needs them.  Old professor

RE: Resume padding

HR can check ANYONE out in less than a week.  ALSO, all of our employees "enjoy" a 3 month probation period - where they can be released for reason at all.

Seems to work!!

RE: Resume padding

Whenever we were in the position to hire somebody, my superiors would require that I call references and past employers. Not HR, but an engineer. I remember it because I hated doing it. You'd be surprised how much you can figure out from a few phone calls. We ask if they left on good terms, would you hire this person again, etc. I'd even write a little script to work from. It's not only the answers, but the tone, the hesitations, the language the responses are couched with. We don't necessarily check diplomas, as we're hiring more experienced personnel, but we always call past employers.
If you don't do that, you're just asking for trouble. While a probationary period is a good screen for a real loser, three months is not enough time to really size up a problem employee.

RE: Resume padding

We have moved to a six month probation as standard for the company so we can size up correctly.  

http://www.nceng.com.au/
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."

RE: Resume padding

Nice one spongebob.

TSA wouldn't let me get my plane tickets at the automated kiosk for six years because I share a name with an IRA car bomber.  I had to stand in line every time, whether I had bags to check or not, while the manager checked to make sure I wasn't an 80 year old Irishman.

Yay for security theater.  

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East - http://www.campbellcivil.com

RE: Resume padding

I am always amazed the sheer number of people who do pad their CVs with a bunch of lies, people either seem to drastically overstate or very occasionally understate) their abilities in my experience. If they have overstated their abilities it seems to take forever to be able to get rid of them - my company for some weird reason does not believe in a probation period.

A person I used to work with was made redundant (otherwise I think they would have been fired anyway, there was a round of redundancies and that just seemed to be the easier route for the company). They left, and went to work for another company for just over a year, then moved on from there to elsewhere (a number if times I beleive in a very short timeframe).

A couple of years later this person put my name forward as a reference for a new job and must have assumed I had a short memory - politely reminding me that "after leaving office X of the company, remember how I went and worked in office Y of the company for a year prior to resigning...... They were obviously trying to lose the employer after us from their CV.

I however, have a memory like an elephant, so when I was asked during the refernce check to confirm the dates of employment, I told then the dates they worked in office X, and they would have to confirm the time spent in office Y directly with office Y.

I could not believe this person expected me to lie for them during a reference check (well they may not have expected it, they may have hoped to get away with it). The job this person was applying for was very senior in role and there was no way this person was capable (and I told the HR company this).  

RE: Resume padding

I agree w/ GregLocock... Best to say " I would probably not hire them back" or check w/ your lawyer on to handle.

RE: Resume padding

Or say, "my mother always said if you can't say something good about someone, say nothing so no Comment". It would be wise to run it past a lawyer who knows the applicable laws in your jurisdiction though.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &
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RE: Resume padding

Patprimmer -

I have used the "mother" line a number of times. It gets the message across quite well.

RE: Resume padding

http://www.istream.com/news/watch/97967/Yahoo-CEO-fired-for-padding-resume

Embellishing your accomplishments may be merely putting a positive spin on things, but claiming degrees that you do not posess is pretty close to fraud.

RE: Resume padding

Quote:

Embellishing your accomplishments may be merely putting a positive spin on things, but claiming degrees that you do not posess is pretty close to fraud.

It is actually fraud.

At lest here, according to my lawyer, the legal definition of fraud theft by deception. Padding a resume is deception. Accepting a salary you would otherwise not have been paid is theft by that deception.

Regards
Pat
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RE: Resume padding

Pat: wow, if the definition is that broad, there's a LOT of fraud in the world! But I do see the distinction between claiming you had more of a role in a project than you actually did, and claiming you have a degree or other objective credential that you don't actually posess.

RE: Resume padding

There certainly is, but almost all of it cannot be prosecuted as they need to prove knowledge of errors and intent to deceive and value of what was "stolen". Reasonable incorrect recollection can be used as a defence.

At least that is how it was explained to me with a comment on the particular case that We could probably prove intent, but the provable value of the theft would be less than the non reimbursable expenses.

Regards
Pat
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