Open Source Drafting Standard
Open Source Drafting Standard
(OP)
New to posting, so if this deviates from applicable standards I apologize.
Has anyone considered making an open-source drafting standard? Obviously it would build off of what is already done from ASME and the others, but it would be contained in an online wiki. That way it could be community supported, flexible and quick to react--similar to the flexibility that wikipedia benefits from.
Additionally, because it would be free (hopefully) adherance to the standard would be more accepted and you would not come across a shop complaining they do not have the standard specified.
I would like to gauge the interest from the big players on these boards (KENAT, ewh, etc...)
Has anyone considered making an open-source drafting standard? Obviously it would build off of what is already done from ASME and the others, but it would be contained in an online wiki. That way it could be community supported, flexible and quick to react--similar to the flexibility that wikipedia benefits from.
Additionally, because it would be free (hopefully) adherance to the standard would be more accepted and you would not come across a shop complaining they do not have the standard specified.
I would like to gauge the interest from the big players on these boards (KENAT, ewh, etc...)





RE: Open Source Drafting Standard
Everybody on this forum agrees with the others wholeheartedly, so we could start the Wiki right now!
RE: Open Source Drafting Standard
"Know the rules well, so you can break them effectively."
-Dalai Lama XIV
RE: Open Source Drafting Standard
The major hurdle that I see, is that since it would be largely based off of the existing standards, what are the copyrights and limitations...
RE: Open Source Drafting Standard
Repeating the information there in on a large scale might start to slip into copyright issues as you say.
As CH points out, trying to get agreement would be tricky - heck ewh & I occasionally disagree and we mesh better than most on our views of drafting etc.
If you're really keen you could get involved with one of the existing standards agencies.
Or...
Are you thinking more like an online Genium or Global DRM which are both closely based on the relevant ASME standards?
It's still a lot of work though, and honestly although I possess copies of both of those DRM's, I find myself going back to the ASME stds more often.
Now what might have use is expending the FAQ section of this forum to address some of the questions that come up a lot.
(I'm flattered by the shout out but there are many here more qualified/experienced than I for the tricky stuff.)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Open Source Drafting Standard
Also, I rarely look at wiki's, they can't be trusted.
Chris
SolidWorks 11
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion
RE: Open Source Drafting Standard
Also, when I was doing my final-year project, the engineer in residence kept trying to hide behind a very flawed and incomplete school company-standard, so I could see the benefit to educational institutions.
RE: Open Source Drafting Standard
What do you mean "Open Source"?
Open source software means that the source code is published, and we can all look at it, and look for bugs and security problems. The software still may be subject to a commercial copyright.
Perhaps you are thinking of some variation of the GNU public license. There are versions of this for managing documents, as opposed to software. Still, there would have to be a consortium of some kind to decide what the standard actually was. With the GNU "copyleft", we would all have the freedom to copy it out and fork it, creating our own standard, each of us.
This, actually, is exactly where we do not want to go.
RE: Open Source Drafting Standard
As for license, one of the creative commons license-variants could work (Attribution-NoDerivs CC BY-ND?)...although then it could prevent editing and improving. All that would be required is a license to prevent branching...which I see could be an absolute nightmare.
RE: Open Source Drafting Standard
What if we look at the problem backwards? What we do the best around here is: we disagree.
Why don't we try to record big and small discrepancies that don't let us sleep at night?
The map of the minefield that is engineering drafting.
Comprehensive catalog of things we don't like.
Place where members of ISO and ASME committees will visit before their next meeting.
Any ideas?
RE: Open Source Drafting Standard
Could be very interesting if it was also a platform to provide the re-written version...could be a great way of making the current standards more responsive to the industry.
RE: Open Source Drafting Standard
However, based on your 29 Mar 12 11:28 post it seems what you were really thinking is primarily a bunch of extra examples - am I correct?
There are already some free resources, this site, tec-ease etc. Certainly I could see fleshing out the FAQ section on this forum being beneficial.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Open Source Drafting Standard
My initial response had included a statement regarding "changing" "standards", but I edited it for brevity. It's difficult enough keeping up with current interpretations of standards!
"Know the rules well, so you can break them effectively."
-Dalai Lama XIV
RE: Open Source Drafting Standard
I know Genium is based on GE's earlier internal manual if memory serves.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Open Source Drafting Standard
Examples, yes. But also best practice both for drawings as well as the 3D model. Originally what I had in mind was a company standard similar to the nasa one here:
http://
I was also thinking that instead of just referencing Y14.x, it would give an example (ideally one not already somewhere on the web (in reference to ewh's comment earlier))
I started with asking about a PUBLIC standard for drawings that a company could adopt (if they don't have one already), but hoped that it would later expand to include anything model/drawing related.
I think the FAQ could be an excellent starting point for this, but something that reads a bit easier I think would be more effective.
RE: Open Source Drafting Standard
Is that what you'are thinking of or you'd also want the stuff that's in 14.5 etc.?
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Open Source Drafting Standard
There are a lot of fairly expensive books out there that can be used to create "company standard"; but if you can afford to start the company, you can afford to buy the book.
Do you really think guys like THIS or THIS will happily bend over and let your freely-distributable book to drive them out of business?
This is why I think if the idea will ever succeed; it can only be based on completely different principle, and in no way will look like NASA standard.
RE: Open Source Drafting Standard
Thanks to everyone for the discussion!
Cheers,
-S
RE: Open Source Drafting Standard
"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."
Have you read FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies to make the best use of these Forums?
RE: Open Source Drafting Standard
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Open Source Drafting Standard
1) A reputable source for the latest standard
2) A source of revenue
3) Political currency and authority
As a result, you would never foreseeably get them to give up copyrights, and any wiki posting their intellectual properties would be quickly and successfully challenged.
That being said, I used to work with another organization that established industry voluntary standards, and was very successfull in changing their philosophy from charging for the developed standards to making them freely available to all members. The economic reality there was that the sales of standards generated little revenue whereas membership did. As members were the ones donating time & resources to establish the standards, and they were the primary users of those standards, it became an issue that members had to pay again to get a copy of the standards. Different situation.
Jim Sykes, P.Eng, GDTP-S
Profile Services www.profileservices.ca
TecEase, Inc. www.tec-ease.com
RE: Open Source Drafting Standard
That being said, if the examples are nothing like the ones provided in the standard but the methods are used as per the standard would that work? I would think yes, because you are not infringing upon the copyright of the document by using their methods in your daily work nor, to my knowledge, to they prevent you from discussing and demonstrating how to use the standard (otherwise this forum should have been shut down a long time ago). I know that with wikipedia they can get away with using company logos because they are using them not for profit. Their idiom can be seen here (I used the RIM logo as an example, but GO ANDROID!):
h
Perhaps the same can be used for detailing point by point through the standard.
RE: Open Source Drafting Standard
The real problem here is that the GPL is a copyright. Someone owns the document, and decides what will go into the document. You have the right to copy it, print it out, and modify it to create your own document.
I write my own drafting standard, and I publish it under the GPL. You guys all say "Wow!" and start copying it, printing it, and calling it up on your drawings.
At some point, you decide you want changes to the document. You politely ask me to make changes. Perhaps I do it. Perhaps I don't. There is no difference between what I would be doing, and what the ASME and ISO are doing right now. Reviewing and updating engineering standards is not trivial. It takes time and money, much of which is raised by selling copies of the standards. If you search GNU's website, you will find requests for money. You would certainly find one on mine if I were doing this.
The other way around getting your own changes would be to fork the standard and create your own version. We have the swoop360 standard, the MadMango standard and the MechNorth standard, and who knows what else. How are the fabricators going to learn all of this stuff?
A friend of mine took a UNIX administration course. On the first day, the instructor announced that the great thing about UNIX is standards. "There are so many to choose from."
Let's not go there!
RE: Open Source Drafting Standard
http://www.pmpa.org/technology/design/toc.htm
"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."
Have you read FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies to make the best use of these Forums?
RE: Open Source Drafting Standard
Ctopher linked something vaguely similar before too: thread1103-197339: Machining tips
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?