Free structural engineering!
Free structural engineering!
(OP)
I came across this site, where a structural engineer designs for free!!!!
http ://www.jus tanswer.co m/structur al-enginee ring/6d3cx -need-stru ctural-ste el-beam-sp an-28-no-d eeper.html
http
Michael.
Timing has a lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance.






RE: Free structural engineering!
Accept Your Answer
Happy with your answer? Just click "Accept" to pay your Expert.
Notice the word "pay".
However, it does appear that if you are not happy with the answer, you don't have to pay. Boy, could I have a lot of fun with this!
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
http://mmcengineering.tripod.com
RE: Free structural engineering!
Sounds like a lot of clients we work for
RE: Free structural engineering!
RE: Free structural engineering!
Some of their experts are licensed PE's. I wonder how this relates to the engineering laws where you can't practice in a state without a license? Is answering a question online for someone in New York state the same as practicing in NY?
RE: Free structural engineering!
"I am trying to build a bridge capable of spanning approx. 25 feet able to carry a fully loaded large vehicle and possibly light to medium grade construction equipment. This bridge will be about 15-20 foot wide as well. What type of equipment will I need and what type of footing will be needed?"
The responses included foundations, beams, deck, and slab sizes.
Fee: $30.00.
RE: Free structural engineering!
This is really something that should be reported to an engineering board, but who knows what state (or country even) since it is all online?
RE: Free structural engineering!
RE: Free structural engineering!
OHIOMatt, how did you find out where the responders went to school? I think the first step is to send this to NSPE and try to get this website shut down before someone gets hurt. The second step would be to go after responders for ethics violations.
RE: Free structural engineering!
htt
Claims a degree from PSU in 2005. Even has a proile photo (whether it is actually him or not may be debated).
RE: Free structural engineering!
Michael.
Timing has a lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance.
RE: Free structural engineering!
A few years ago - there was a website that did this. They were basically "chased" our of business because they weren't licensed in many states and did NOT have proper control over the projects...
RE: Free structural engineering!
I can understand people wanting free help, but any engineer who posts answers on there should be booted, and if I were carrying their PL insurance, I'd cut them off immediately.
RE: Free structural engineering!
I don't reply much on this forum because as an EI I don't have the confidence to answer questions with 100% certainty. These people must be my polar opposite.
For those of you that are shy to click a strange link (I know you're out there) Here is a summary of the type of questions.
Q:"I have a post in my basement carrying a 2 span 8" beam with 12' spans on each side. I need to move 3 1/2'"
A:"Sure move it no problem I'm sure the design engineer oversized the beam by 30% for strength and more than that for deflection. Also I am 100% positive that there is no post down above the existing column that could deflect your basement beam and make your whole house fall in on itself in the middle. I don't need a description of the framing because every 3 story residential house is built exactly the same and never has deviations from the standard framing plans"
RE: Free structural engineering!
RE: Free structural engineering!
Michael.
Timing has a lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance.
RE: Free structural engineering!
I did a whois search on justanswer.com.
CODE
JustAnswer LLC
Domain Administrator
38 Keyes Avenue Suite 150
San Francisco, CA 94129
US
Phone: +1.4159299921
Email: domains@justanswer.com
Technical Contact:
Corporation Service Company
Domain Registrar
PO Box 597
Yarmouth, NS B5A 4B4
CA
Phone: +1.9027465201
Email: admin@internationaladmin.com
RE: Free structural engineering!
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Thats probably how he gets around violating every state law on the use of PEs
<g>
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RE: Free structural engineering!
Michael.
Timing has a lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance.
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RE: Free structural engineering!
I'll keep everyone updated.
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Michael.
Timing has a lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance.
RE: Free structural engineering!
That's about $360.00 per hour...
At those rates, it's obvious he's a lawyer!
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
http://mmcengineering.tripod.com
RE: Free structural engineering!
RE: Free structural engineering!
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
http://mmcengineering.tripod.com
RE: Free structural engineering!
Is what he's doing actually illegal?
1) He's not signing and sealing plans
2) He's not providing construction details
3) He's not providing construction drawings that could be used for permit
4) Anyone using the service would probably just make something up if there wasn't a cheap/convenient resource available
5) A couple I the questions I read had lengthy disclaimers about how he hasn't visited the site, has only the information provided by the client, and the client is responsible for the use of the information...
I whole-heartedly agree with all of the negative attention he's getting and fully believe it cheapens the profession, but from a strictly legal standpoint, what law is he violating?
RE: Free structural engineering!
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
http://mmcengineering.tripod.com
RE: Free structural engineering!
A couple of observations on your question:
1. In some states it is illegal to portray yourself as an engineer if you are not licensed in that state (Nevada for example). Even if the project didn't require a licensed engineer to participate, simply promoting yourself as an engineer, or calling yourself a professional engineer, for a project within that state could technically be illegal.
2. Many states have exclusions for various types/sizes of projects - small residential for instance - where a licensed engineer isn't required. In this sense, perhaps they aren't violating any law.
3. There are ethics codes out there that any licensed engineer is expected to follow. These are not simply suggested rules but many times are actually codified into the engineering practice acts of each state. There were some answers I saw on the site that were definitely questionable as to good engineering practice (see the above example by port125). In this case - providing design services for fee when you don't actually have good knowledge of the structural conditions, loadings, etc. is not practicing to the standard of care.
4. The engineer's first priority is to protect the public health and safety. Item 3 above certainly doesn't do that.
RE: Free structural engineering!
I believe that you could probably make a strong arguement that they are not putting the health, safety, and welfare of the public paramount in their actions in accordance with the first canon of each organization's Ethics codes. Telling someone you can move a post based on the assumption that the engineer (btw, it was probably never actually designed by an engineer anyway if it's residential) probably over designed it initially is not making sure that the safety of the person performing that work or using that structure is the highest priority. What if that post was added after the engineer designed the beam because the beam was failing due to overloading or special circumstances to begin with? What if it wasn't OK to move it...who is going to answer for it?
I suppose you could also make the arguement that they are not accurately displaying their credentials and representing their experience and background...notice you can't get a first/last name to check their license criteria on the website. I believe that this violates the NSPE code under section II. Rules of Practice, number 5. They are stating they are licensed or experienced professionals but not allowing the public to verify this. Someone please correct me if you found a way to verify their license with each state...I could not.
Personally, I know that if I gave this type of advice freely and something happened to a person who followed it, I would feel terrible. And it could easily happen in this situation...after all, it was an 'expert' who answered their question so why shouldn't they follow it!
RE: Free structural engineering!
To follow on to JAE's excellent points, I would encourage you to read your state's engineering law and rules of practice. You will likely find that there are several violations of your state's practice act. Even if they seem relatively minor to you, they whittle away at the professionalism and perception of our profession, thus reducing the stature of an engineer in the eyes of the public....if it goes much lower, why have laws at all?
This is not the way engineering was intended to be practiced nor should it be practiced this way. We are a "hands on" profession...both by necessity and statute. In this case, the "client" doesn't necessarily (and most likely does not) have the expertise to make site observations to pass on to the engineer.
The engineer can provide as many caveats as he would like in his answer....the problem is that, as a professional engineer, you cannot disclaim negligence. Our services are sometimes difficult enough when we can directly see the issues...image how poor that service would be if the engineer cannot see or know of the issues. Ignorance is not bliss in this case. Ignorance is dangerous.
RE: Free structural engineering!
RE: Free structural engineering!
Sort of the same w/ Engineers.
Ladies and gentlemen - we need to promote the professionalism of our profession - not cheapen it but letting guys like this violate probably every state rule and code of ethics!!!
RE: Free structural engineering!
htt
You may not, but how many of these people are?
Is this OK for doctors and lawyers, but not engineers? Or is it OK for software engineers and HVAC engineers, but not structural engineers?
RE: Free structural engineering!
Could this be another example of ... "You get what you pay for?"
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
http://mmcengineering.tripod.com
RE: Free structural engineering!
RE: Free structural engineering!
RE: Free structural engineering!
On the other hand we need to protect the public welfare. We can't have some jack of all trades designing high rises and shopping malls.
As for professionalism, that is earned by the individual it is not handed to the trade because of a license.
RE: Free structural engineering!
Looking through the site - it appears that there are at least 2 more structure folks answering questions. One advertises that he's retired, the other with 11 years experience.
Has anybody gone through this process yet? I keep wondering/hoping there are serious disclaimers about not building anything based on the answers...
RE: Free structural engineering!
There are times when the general public must be protected from their own ignorance and, in some cases, their own stupidity. As I'm sure you've noticed (and have probably done this yourself) the better answer to give an ignorant question (which might not appear ignorant on the surface, but is proved so by lack of supplementary consideration) is no answer.
RE: Free structural engineering!
RE: Free structural engineering!
"Before we continue I'd like to point out that a Professional Engineer's standard of care typically includes a site visit to assess field conditions and get an overall understanding of the structure. This can obviously not be accomplished through the internet. The information provided here is meant for informational purposes only (general sizing and budgeting) and is based on the information provided by you. The information should be verified by a professional engineer who can visit the site to ensure that potentially important information has not been overlooked or omitted."
I think that covers the standard of care problem. Personally, I'd rather see the "expert" not go into a calculation, and just explain how that's not how the profession works (ie, asking for this stuff over the internet for $30), and instead offer a road map on how it's supposed to be accomplished. But the whole site appears to be geared towards "why pay hundreds when you can log on from the comfort of your home for a fraction of the cost."
On the flip side, I do see answers there that don't provide any sort of calculation at all, and are generalized responses like "in certain situations, one could run into a problem with that modification, some of which are A, B, and C, and regardless of the case, this type of professional should be called to have them look at it", or "the manufacturer should be contacted with this question." That's more of the road map that this should be limited to.
RE: Free structural engineering!
The direct link to the page was not working but the actual question title is
"I would like to relocate a lally column in my basement."
from 03/16/12
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These guys are likely to be the same guys who sell their signature and seal for fees half that of engineers who actually perform the work.
Although, JAE, I agree with the board's response. Legally, I doubt they can do much with those ambiguous posts. However, if they had the same attitude as law-enforcement chasing child pornography, we may be able to pressure these folks to stop.
I wonder what percentage of these 'engineers' are ignorant of their ways or knowingly violating ethics and laws.
"Structural engineering is the art of modelling materials we do not wholly understand into shapes we cannot..."...ah...screw it, we don't know what the heck we are doing.