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Making the choice between Bridges and Buildings
4

Making the choice between Bridges and Buildings

Making the choice between Bridges and Buildings

(OP)
This is less technical and more professional development in nature but I respect the people who contribute on this forum and therefore wanted to pitch the question to everyone.

What are some perspectives on choosing a career in bridges versus buildings?

What is interesting, when I pitch this question to friends, I usually get the same answer..."I work in _______ because it's the more innovative and creative of the two!".  The bridge guys see building engineers as being ruled by the architects and with little chance to make the important decisions on a project.  The building guys see bridges cramped within the confines of AASHTO and DOT's.

It's just an interesting situation to me and I as I think about the future for my own career, I am curious what a broader audience thinks about making this choice.

RE: Making the choice between Bridges and Buildings

I think that designing structures such as buildings expose you to more different types of design. Usually bridges are just steel and concrete, and for the most part pretty prescriptive type designs.  

RE: Making the choice between Bridges and Buildings

Pittguy,
The decision has much more to do with what you have patience for.
In places like California and New York, and most everywhere else, a lot of design decisions are political.
Simple projects can take literally years just to break ground.  
The structural design has already been solved 1000 times over, and most of the time the bridge designer is simply following the Caltrans design manual.
And details like silt fences matter more than reinforcing steel around a penetration in a deck.
And most jurisdictions, the state dots, especially Caltrans, horde the work in-house (about 90%), so if you are a private bridge designer and the public union is strong (like everywhere), you'll starve.
This has nothing to do with how qualified or experienced you are.
Yes, working with architects is usually lousy work.
As a non-bridge structural engineer, I spend less than 10% of my time with architects, and that is intentional.

RE: Making the choice between Bridges and Buildings

Let's make this about Bridge and Non-Bridge engineers. If you start as an NB, changing to be a B is difficult, B companies have an exalted opinion of the difficulty of the work and lack of ability of anyone not already trained in it. I don't know about the shift the other way, I have had a few switchers assigned to me over the years.

As an NB, you can get to work on refineries, power plants, infrastructure other than bridges, as well as commercial and residential buildings.

Yes I hate architects in general although there are some good ones, but I also love them, they create problems that need solutions and for solutions they turn to us.
 

Michael.
Timing has a lot to do with the outcome of a rain dance.

RE: Making the choice between Bridges and Buildings

(OP)
"Yes I hate architects in general although there are some good ones, but I also love them, they create problems that need solutions and for solutions they turn to us."


Well said.

Good feedback overall.  

A couple of bridge guys were recently talking to me about how the best choice currently for structural guys is to go into bridges because transportation infrastructure is the only thing being funded right now.  Pending the results of the next election, their concern was that private dollars may still be sparse for building projects but it at least appears that transportation is a popular enough topic to stay funded.

However, as others have mentioned here, building engineering skills are not limited to architectural applications but can extend into a vartiety of other areas as well.
 

RE: Making the choice between Bridges and Buildings

pittguy12

After college I worked at a small bridge firm for 1 year. I switched to a Structural building firm for the last 6 years. I have found that buildings are alot more interesting. With buildings I get to work with a variety of materials. Working with architects can be annoying at times but I agree that they create oppurtunities for creative designs. The bridges that I worked on early in my career were typical DOT bridges and did not allow for any creative engineering.  I did not work on any big suspension bridges so I can't speak for that type of engineering.   

RE: Making the choice between Bridges and Buildings

Bridge design involves a lot more than just steel and concrete.  You can get into foundations, retaining walls, marine construction, drainage, life cycle cost analyses, type studies, community involvement, field inspections, constructibility analysis, construction staging, shoring, rehabilitation and life extension, complex geometry, vibration analysis, ship impact, utilities, etc.  And that's just what I can think of off the top of my head.

It's fun a heck, and tt probably pays better too!

RE: Making the choice between Bridges and Buildings

How about financial services?  oops, not an option I guess :)  

Pros and cons to both.  The big bridges seem like a lot of fun since they are very technical, but I can assure you the typical little ones are as boring as you can find.  Buildings get tiresome too.  I would pick the one that you can make the most so you can have a happy family life.  My brother-in law said to me once, if work was intended to be fun the bosses would sell tickets instead of giving you a paycheck.

Brad

RE: Making the choice between Bridges and Buildings

graybeach said it very well. ATSE is correct that many decisions are political and it can take years to brak ground.

I find bridge rehab work very challenging. It's not for everybody. Sometimes not a lot of number crunching but trying to rebuild and upgrade a bridge while maintaing traffic is not always easy.  

RE: Making the choice between Bridges and Buildings

I forgot to add that sometimes we get stuck with architects too.  

RE: Making the choice between Bridges and Buildings

Industrial structures are kind of fun.  No architects, people always wanting to do weird things like install equipment two floors up on a floor rated for occupancy or replace equipment with things that weigh twice as much.  Sometimes you'll get to spend ridiculous amounts of money because it's cheaper to do something completely insane and entertaining instead of shutting down the process you're upgrading for two weeks (the "hey, let's replace the whole piece of equipment with two days of shut down by building a new one a few hundred feet away, cutting out the old one and trying to crane the new into the old spot back in place" style job)

On the other hand, you're going to design a thousand pipe supports and pump foundations.

RE: Making the choice between Bridges and Buildings

I've been doing buildings and industrial work for 16 yrs. Working with a good architect that respects your input is very rewarding...working with all the other architects is like self-inserting a bamboo catheter.
Industrial work can be pretty cool but only as good as the management of the facility, very bureaucratic.
Pick your client I guess.

RE: Making the choice between Bridges and Buildings

If there were no architects (notice I did not capitalize the term) we would have a lot less work.  

Quit complaining.  bigsmile

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
http://mmcengineering.tripod.com
 

RE: Making the choice between Bridges and Buildings

Msquared:"less work."

Less work versus not getting paid for the work we do...hmmm.

Maybe time for a career change.

RE: Making the choice between Bridges and Buildings

Building Structural Engineer:
"Hey wow - that's a cool design Mr. Architect.  Let me try to figure out how to realize all your dreams!  Is that all the further you can challenge me?  C'mon.  You can do better.  How about a 200 ft. cantilever that's only 10 inches thick?"

Bridge Structural Engineer:
"Give me my bridge project.  Let me get a cup of coffee and fire up my calculator.  Then leave me the h#!! alone for 4 months in my cubicle!"

 

RE: Making the choice between Bridges and Buildings

At my pervious job I spent about 80% of my time working on temporary construction structures.  It was the best.  It was hands on, problem solving.  Worked hand in hand with the contractors, comming up with creative solutions for many different issues.  Did things like shoring (some very very large) plans, temp retaining walls, analysis of bridges for temp construction loads, cofferdams.  
Will never win an award for most innovative design, but the satisfaction of the contractor calling back a month later and saying that worked well, can we do something similiar on this project?

RE: Making the choice between Bridges and Buildings

(OP)
TLHS - that sounds very similar to what I am currently doing.  It can be very satisfying and diverse, I agree.

DWHA - that was my first job out of school.  It was awesome.  I remember the satisfaction of working out a plan and then going to see it put up the next day by members of the crew.  They would be certain to tell you when you screwed up (through many 4 letter words) but they also would express to you when something you did worked out well.  I can remember solving calculations on the fly that would literally be put to the test later that day....unbelievably satisfying work with or without the awards.


I am faced with a decision of going into large building design or going to work for a bridge designer.  Big choice for me.  It's good to see the feedback coming in.  It seems like it's all about what suits you personally!

RE: Making the choice between Bridges and Buildings

Why don't you go into bridge building, then you would cover both bases?   smile
 

RE: Making the choice between Bridges and Buildings

Why limit yourself, I try to design every type of structure, keeps me busy and intrested.

Kieran
 

RE: Making the choice between Bridges and Buildings

I'd say buildings strictly because they're more frequent and more variable. Either way there are always non-building structures. Industrial work will get you the weirdest jobs that you can really enjoy (and no architects will be involved ;)).

So, with that I say go into structural consulting. Try to get a little of everything.

Maine EIT, Civil/Structural. Going to take the 1st part of the 16-hour SE test in October, wish me luck!

RE: Making the choice between Bridges and Buildings

I thought about this early on in my career, too.  I can't say I had a great reason for deciding on buildings, but I'm glad I did.

To say that building engineers are constrained by architects might be a little misleading.  In a good working relationship, it's a collaboration.  Sure the architect leads the way, but it's their job to make the building look pretty.  It's our job to make sure the pretty building stands up.  I don't see that as a constraint.  If you could put a column anywhere you want it on every project, the profession would get very boring very quickly.

Additionally, as others have noted, I enjoy working with a lot of different materials.  

RE: Making the choice between Bridges and Buildings

I started out in bridges, but made the switch to building work in fairly short time.  Here is what I disliked about bridge work.

-The AASHTO LRFD Manual is a beast.  Have you ever seen it?  It's huge.  There's no way possible to get a firm grasp on the equations in the steel section.  Each equation has about 10 different variables that need to be determined from other longer, iterative equations.  Long story short: you will flip through the whole steel section just to successfully complete one equation.  Basically, as I was once told by someone with the DOT: you better have some good computer programs if you want to use this code.  For a young engineer, I hated being so heavily reliant on computers to do my analysis for a bunch of complex code equations. It was hard to get a good physical grasp of what I was actually doing.

- Bridge work also involved a lot of number crunching.  It seemed to me like less of an art form.  Everything pretty much has a set process and solution.  Once you have done one typical prestressed concrete girder bridge, you have done them all, etc.

-Also, the DOT has a too tight a grip on you.  They are very restrictive about what should be used and what's acceptable, which is probably a good thing for QC, but ties back into my claim of one process, one solution.

-A lot of times you have to deal with complex geometry, for example, on complex bridge interchanges.  I found that to be a nuisance void of any reward.

-The DOT performed most of the on-site construction administration services. So, there wasn't much opportunity to get out in the field and see your designs come to life.

The main thing for me was the new AASHTO LRFD.  I used AASHTO standard specs for a brief period and may have given bridge work a longer chance if that remained the preferred code.  

Building work is a lot more of an imaginative process.  You often have to come up with creative solutions in designing a structure that is compatible with an architect's desired building form.  Every job seems to have at least some unique aspect. Also, it is satisfying to work with a wide range of materials and products.

There are definitely some cons as well.  It can be tough to work with some architects.  I think you are much more likely to deal with a crappy contractor in building work. Quality control could be a lot better.  A lot of times you are up against unrealistic deadlines. So, I wouldn't say it is the land of milk and honey.  But, it is definitely better fit for me as a structural engineer.  

RE: Making the choice between Bridges and Buildings

abusementpark - when I started in the bridge business the AASHTO specs were contained in a book that was 6"x 8 1/2" x 1" & LRFD was  unheard of; the current LRFD (6th ed.) is 8 1/2" x 11" x 3 3/4". LRFD is cumbersome because of computers. The original code writers didn't intend for designs to be done by hand.

Not every bridge or building project requires a lot of imagination. The project I'm on now is a deck replacement - doesn't sound very exciting or imaginative on the surface - but it requires a lot of imagination to bring the structure up to current standards and to keep the price within the owner's $250 million budget, while also keeping 100,000 vehicles per day moving.  

RE: Making the choice between Bridges and Buildings

Kudos to Graybeach and Bridgebuster for dispelling the old myth about cookie-cutter bridges.  There are many challenges in bridge engineering and even more so when alternate delivery methods like Design Build and P3 are used.

So enough about buildings are better than bridges or vice versa and my dad can kick your dad's ass.

I suspect the arguement transcends the industry to include where you work.  So please give that some thought.  At the company I work at I've been involved in major/minor bridges, major/minor marine facilities, and even test stands for rocket engines.  All this comes from an ability to do structural engineering and read codes, any codes.  

So when your considering what to practice give some thought to where and who you'll practice for.  A more deversified company will allow for more professional breadth and growth.  A less deversified company and you'll become an expert in one area and more likely to become a PM or executive quicker.  All have their benefits.

Good luck.

Regards,
Qshake
pipe
Eng-Tips Forums:Real Solutions for Real Problems Really Quick.
 

RE: Making the choice between Bridges and Buildings

I'll just chip in and say that if you dont want to deal with architects, and want to do "buildings" find work with a firm that does industrial design. The work is insanely challenging and rewarding.
The first firm I worked for had two architects. It was funny as hell to watch them do renderings of power plants and chemical facilities. Nothing like perfectly shading identical corrugated siding on all the plant buildings!!! They were grumpy as hell!

RE: Making the choice between Bridges and Buildings

Having done both I try to avoid bridges because they take so long to get through due to all the bureaucratic red tape and paperwork.
In our state there is a middleman Engineering liaison so we not only get to deal with the government but also the whims of the liaison's.
If you don't mind spending a year or years on designing a job that you could do in a month, then bridges and highways would be for you.

On the other hand, if you like feeling accomplishment, go for buildings.

RE: Making the choice between Bridges and Buildings

Again, I'm compelled to note that long periods of time for bridges is a function of where and who you work for.

Last year, within a 10 month span, our company (our office) designed 26 bridges for one DOT/Contractor as part of a Design Build Project.  

Sure we have those projects that held up for years, especially those dealing with RR.  But it's not always like that.

So, again, consider who the company, of interest, works for.  If they work for traditional clients and non-traditional clients like Contractors that's a good thing.  The more diversified you are these days the better off you are.

When considering diversity in a company, look to make sure the company doesn't work for a single client a greater percentage of its time.  If it does and if the market is crappy (as it is now) chances are you'll not have work, when the owner decides to hold capital improvement projects (Buildings) or can't get funding (DOT).   

Regards,
Qshake
pipe
Eng-Tips Forums:Real Solutions for Real Problems Really Quick.
 

RE: Making the choice between Bridges and Buildings

Why do you have to choose right out of school? I got a chance to scan a bunch of resumes a few years ago, when we were thinking about hiring a new graduate. After I threw away the ones who wanted to do bridges, the ones who wanted to do high rises and the ones who wanted to live in either Seattle or Portland, there were none left.
If you're a new graduate, why don't you take a job that feels interesting and comfortable and see where it leads you? I know with the massive amount of knowledge that a college degree imparts, you think that you can set your life path, but there's twists and turns out there. Don't the universities inform you that there's other structural engineering work besides bridges and high rises?  

RE: Making the choice between Bridges and Buildings

(OP)
Yes, I think colleges do a pretty good job of exposing the many areas of structural engineering overall.  I have been in the industry for a few years and am facing a change in direction of career (from miscellaneous type structural work to either bridges or buildings).  In my quest to decide, I discovered that the industry itself seems to designate between the two.  Meaning you have companies that focus solely on bridges and some that do buildings...I just found it an interesting issue and wondered how others faced that decision.

As it was mentioned before, I consider myself a structural engineer...not a building engineer, not a bridge engineer.  I have been involved in small versions of both projects.  However, it seems that at some point I will need to make the choice between the two to move forward in the industry.

RE: Making the choice between Bridges and Buildings

pittguy12 - I ended up in bridge work because in the late 70's that's where the jobs were. Over the years I've done three building designs, a few minor building renovations, a couple of pumping stations, etc.

Don't think you have to make a choice of either one or the other. Don't think you can fully control your future.  As President Lincoln said "I have not controlled events, rather, events have controlled me." Sometimes it's the hand of fate.

RE: Making the choice between Bridges and Buildings

I recently talked to a company that was disappointed I only had building experience. They wanted someone who could bounce back and forth between buildings and bridges depending on the work load they had that week. A company like that is always an option as well - get some experience with both.

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