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underground pipelne
2

underground pipelne

underground pipelne

(OP)
i have sveral pipelines that must pass underground of the highway
the pipelines are for different product with different diameters
1_ steam pipeline
2- saturated water
3- jet
4- fire fighting pipeline
5- oil pipeline
i don't know how to calculate safe distance between these pipelines so please if you could help me or tell me the standard   

RE: underground pipelne

Without you telling us which country these pipelines are in, it is sort of hard to offer real concise guidelines.
So. I will offer the "Ditch Diggers Rule" place the pipes a minimum of one shovel distance apart (out side to out side of pipe).

There, how does that sound?

RE: underground pipelne

(OP)
i am in egypt

RE: underground pipelne

(OP)
is there is asafe distance between two parallel pipeline
is it differant between above ground and above ground pipeline

RE: underground pipelne

The "safe distance" depends on  how you intend to cross the road.  You might like to, for example, not bury any of them and run all of them through one large box culvert, or several box culverts, or place them each in their own box culvert.

You might want to bury them under the road, in which case they might be several meters apart, or some companies require anywhere from 5 to 15 meters separation.

The safe distance might refer to how far apart they should be in order to not interfere with the adjacent lines, should one have to be excavated and repaired.  That might depend on what equipment you would need to do that, on thier diameters, wall thicknesses, weight, how deeply they were buried, how heavy and how large an excavator, and how large a hole you would need to dig to access them.

From "BigInch's Extremely simple theory of everything."

RE: underground pipelne

(OP)
it will be in culvert
i know thickness and weight and diameter but i need equation that calculate safe distance in culvert

RE: underground pipelne

Surely you're joking.

From "BigInch's Extremely simple theory of everything."

RE: underground pipelne

(OP)

I am sorry but i don't know if there is a standard for pipeline in culvert which define distance
These is my first time to construct pipeline in culvert
i need to define the distance between pipeline but i don't how cause i don't have arefrence to read  

RE: underground pipelne

(OP)
i found the standard for buried pipelines not culvert
only i wonder what is refrence for pipeline in culvert  

RE: underground pipelne

pipelines in culvert, should have minimum spacing of average of their diameters.  

RE: underground pipelne

(OP)
thank you could you tell me what is  the refrence u used so i could use it in any future question

RE: underground pipelne

(OP)
cause  i want to calculate the width of culvert

RE: underground pipelne

engfir    
You wrote"
"I found the standard for buried pipelines not culvert, only i wonder what is reference for pipeline in culvert."

If you really think about it I'm sure you will realize that it makes sense to carry the same line spacing through the culvert as you have on both sides of the culvert.  

If you want a different spacing just for pipes inside the culvert then you are adding extra cost to change the spacing on one side of the culvert and then again to change it back on the other side.

You should find out what the worst case spacing is then use that throughout.  

RE: underground pipelne

(OP)
all what you say is right but i want the standard of culvert to read it  

RE: underground pipelne

I doubt very much that you will find a "standard". you need to make an engineering decision, based on analysis of risk, O&M and constructability.  

RE: underground pipelne

There's no public standard, or private standard that I've ever seen that mentions this.  I would, at a minimum, only consider one dimeter of the largest pipe in any adjacent 2.  Maybe greater, if they were hot, restrained at each end, and the culvert was long.  I might also install some mechanical spacers, if it looked like snaking was possible, or leave in enough room between to accomodate the maximum predicted lateral movement plus one diameter.

From "BigInch's Extremely simple theory of everything."

RE: underground pipelne

engfir - maybe you should consider bringing in a consultant or an engineering company?

Best regards

Morten

RE: underground pipelne

engfir,

Has the company that owns the hydrocarbons standards? Shell, BP or other?

"Sharing knowledge is the way to immortality"
His Holiness the Dalai Lama.

http://waterhammer.hopout.com.au/

RE: underground pipelne

Generally such pipelines are installed in a culvert so you overcome the soil corrosion aspects. Direct burying brings risks of failure, closure of the highway, environmental spills, ongoing monitoring. If os spacing should be same as any aboveground piping.

If you must direct bury then thee should some distance between the pipes to ensure that the soil compaction is adequate for the highways loadings.

AWWA has standards that cover buried pipelines for water. Structurally no different for hydrocarbons.

"Sharing knowledge is the way to immortality"
His Holiness the Dalai Lama.

http://waterhammer.hopout.com.au/

RE: underground pipelne

(OP)
could you tell me the distance in the above ground pipeline

RE: underground pipelne

Genrally the diameter of two adjacent flanges plus 25mm.

"Sharing knowledge is the way to immortality"
His Holiness the Dalai Lama.

http://waterhammer.hopout.com.au/

RE: underground pipelne

For parallel large diameter pipelines, concern should be given to pipe-trench interaction and trench requirements.

When buried pipes are installed in parallel, principles of analysis for single pipes still apply, however soil cover must be greater than minimum. In other word, the design of parallel buried pipes requires an additional analysis for heavy surface loads (given that a common trench is used). In fact for buried parallel pipes soil slip between the pipes becomes the bottleneck for the distance calculation. Talking about 1 m or more separation then the concern becomes faded but it all depends on your pipelines diameters and soil density.

If the pipelines are in separate trenches, then  embedment stability becomes a concern when a trench is excavated parallel to an existing buried flexible pipe. You should address what would happen to a buried flexible pipe when some or all the side support is removed in a parallel excavation. Ans also the existing trench stability itself is an issue to concern. At less than minimum side cover, X, side support is lost and the soil on the pipe must be supported by the pipe. If ring stiffness is inadequate, the pipe collapses.

For a detailed discussion, please refer to "Buried Pipe Design" by A. P. Moser, Steven Folkman chapter 3.   
 

 

RE: underground pipelne

Maybe we should give an award for OP most involved in his own thread- engfir seems to fit the bill.  

RE: underground pipelne

repeat.  "Surely you're joking. "
More like expert in getting others to become involved.  
We've circled back to buried pipes, except they are now in culverts.

From "BigInch's Extremely simple theory of everything."

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