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Title Block Question

Title Block Question

Title Block Question

(OP)
Need your help.
We have a dispute with our local drawing checkers. They claim that if an area in a title block is intended to be blank then per the national standards you MUST have a horizontal line in lieu of text. In this example it's a project number, and for this particular drawing project number does not apply.
Does anyone know where in our national standards it talks about that? I did look at ASME Y14.1 Section 6 where it talks about title blocks and did not find that info there.
Any ideas?
 

RE: Title Block Question

From what I remember, it's DOD-STD-100C.

If no information is applicable enter a "dash" or "N/A"

Chris
SolidWorks 11
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion

RE: Title Block Question

(OP)
Thanks but the DOD-STD-100C is canceled and replaced with 4 documents:
ASME Y14.100
ASME Y14.24
ASME Y14.35M
ASME Y14.34M

Does anyone know the exact place where it says that?
 

RE: Title Block Question

(OP)
Yes I looked at appendices of 14.100 and did not find it. I know it days it can not be black. But I can not find where it says to put N/A or dash "-".
Anyone else know where to look?

RE: Title Block Question

(OP)
Sorry my spelling is bad today! Here is what I am saying.
I know it days it can not be black. = I know it says it cannot be blank.

RE: Title Block Question

(OP)
Any drawing checkers out there? Please help me find where in the standard it says to put a "dash" or "N/A" for items that are not applicable in the title block. I do remember from school 12 years ago something about that too. I just need to find where it says that in the standard and so far I am having a hard time finding that info in the national standards.  

<img src="http://www.topedge.com/panels/aircraft/hangar/gifa/combi/f1416_1.gif">

RE: Title Block Question

I'll say this.  Per the 1998 edition of Y14.38 most "/" were removed from most abbreviations.

So 'Not Applicable' is in fact "NA" with no slash.

This happens to be the same abbreviation as for "Not Available" and "Next Assembly".

So, I'd use this as justification to use "-" instead of an abbreviation with multiple interpretations.

As someone who got to be a checker for a couple of years, this seems a fairly trivial item to be putting so much effort into - or am I missing something?

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RE: Title Block Question

I agree with Kenat's suggestion to use a dash ( - ). I never had a problem with the FDA or FAA when my designs had that much scrutiny. In your internal drafting policies, you could define the dash and just ensure that you use it consistently, in my opinion.

Peter Truitt
Minnesota

RE: Title Block Question

I don't know of any standard but we usually put -- or ---- in any blank field just to show you didn't forget to fill it in.  Bigger fields get more dashes.

----------------------------------------

The Help for this program was created in Windows Help format, which depends on a feature that isn't included in this version of Windows.
 

RE: Title Block Question

OK, Ken, I have to admit that I needed to look up "saltire."  

John-Paul Belanger
Certified Sr. GD&T Professional
Geometric Learning Systems
http://www.gdtseminars.com

RE: Title Block Question

(I mean that in a self-deprecating way, not in a finger-wagging way !)

John-Paul Belanger
Certified Sr. GD&T Professional
Geometric Learning Systems
http://www.gdtseminars.com

RE: Title Block Question

(OP)
Thank you all for your input. I agree that a – (dash) or - - - - - (multiple dashes) should be acceptable per national standards. But for some strange reason our checkers (just 2 of 10) are requiring to have a long solid line and not a – or - - - - - -. One could argue and say that - - - - - is a line, it is just that it happens to have a hidden line type/style to the line. But - - - - -  appears to be not acceptable for our  2 checkers, they require a solid line. I believe this requirement to have a solid line is not a national standard, just something they want. And that was the essence of my question.
Thank you all for your help.
 

RE: Title Block Question

kislyak, there is no arguing  with your checkers if they proceed from title block is space for drawing lines instead typing letters.
 

RE: Title Block Question

If your Checkers are demanding a solid line, have THEM provide the reference.  In my experience, either "NA" or a single "-" have been used.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."


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RE: Title Block Question

The reason we use dashes is that these fields are automatically filled in by model parameters which have to be text strings of some sort.  A solid line is not an option.

----------------------------------------

The Help for this program was created in Windows Help format, which depends on a feature that isn't included in this version of Windows.
 

RE: Title Block Question

In an ISO-9001 (whatever the latest version), all fields must have something in them.  If a field is left blank, it is assumed by auditors that a task was left incomplete.  It's a compliance issue.

Matt Lorono, CSWP
Product Definition Specialist, DS SolidWorks Corp
Personal sites:
Lorono's SolidWorks Resources & SolidWorks Legion

RE: Title Block Question

kislyak, as dgallup suggests, is this a case where the checkers don't understand how your CAD package/template are set up?

Has it been demonstrated/explained to them what the problem is?

Honestly, I dont' think I could be bothered to argue this much, I'd just spend the 5 seconds to draw the line on each drawing.  However, maybe I'm missing something.

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RE: Title Block Question

(OP)
There 2 checkers do understand now our CAD works. We have a homemade software that populates the title block in our CAD software, and the default for not-applicable boxes is - - - - -. For years this has not been an issue, until recently they (just 2 checkers out of 10) started rejecting drawings just for that! My take on this is "if it's not broken then don't try to change/fix it!"  They have been checking for more than 2 years, and they were fine with it before, but not anymore for some odd reason.  It does not seem lean to delete something that is populated automatically (and is per the acceptable standards), and then draw a solid line after the fast. This seems redundant and it has no value to the end product. Of course just to have the drawings move along we (not just me another 4 drafters) did what they required (in this case delete - - - - - and draw an actual solid horizontal line). So I am just doing my own homework and trying to see what is actually required in our national standards. At this point I see that - - - -  or - is acceptable.   

<img src="http://www.topedge.com/panels/aircraft/hangar/gifa/combi/f1416_1.gif">

RE: Title Block Question

Perhaps you could talk with them about their reasoning.  If they changed their procedures, there is probably a reason.

Technically, the glass is always  full.

RE: Title Block Question

(OP)
Thanks ewh for the response. But yes the conversation took place with the checker about this matter before. Its just that even the checkers among them self cannot agree about putting a solid line or putting a - - -. Some say - - - - it is per the standard and some of the checkers say it is not.

<img src="http://www.topedge.com/panels/aircraft/hangar/gifa/combi/f1416_1.gif">

RE: Title Block Question

Only "something" is needed to fill an empty field, whether that is a dotted line or a dash doesn't matter.  I'm of the camp that this is not a reason to reject a drawing.  KENAT has a good comment about company standards.

Matt Lorono, CSWP
Product Definition Specialist, DS SolidWorks Corp
Personal sites:
Lorono's SolidWorks Resources & SolidWorks Legion

RE: Title Block Question

Quote:

even the checkers among them self cannot agree about putting a solid line or putting a - - -. Some say - - - - it is per the standard and some of the checkers say it is not...
And yet they fail to produce actual book they are sticking to?

Fascinating.

RE: Title Block Question

Yes, fascinating...
I would be less than popular there.
I tend to get very stubborn about such issues when there is documentation to support my position, but I will gladly back down and accept opposing arguments when shown the documentation and how it relates to the issue at hand.  If there is no documentation to support an argument, it becomes more a matter of opinion.  If your checkers can't even agree among themselves about an issue as trivial as this, and management does not care one way or the other, I think I would have to shrug my shoulders and be the good cartoonist that they are paying for, looking for my next chance of escape ASAP.

Technically, the glass is always  full.

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