Broadband options in rural Sweden?
Broadband options in rural Sweden?
(OP)
I visited a meeting about "fibre to the peasants" yesterday evening. It was arranged by the county telecom and internet officer and community IT manager. The purpose was to make us decide to invest in fiber. And to do it before April 15th. Which is very close in time.
To do so, we were supposed to form a group and do the digging and put tubing for the fibre from our local telephone station to as many as possible of our wide-spread dwellings. Our village consists of a central "core" with something like 30 houses in a distance less than a mile from the telephone station and then a sparse collection of houses spread out over an area with three or four miles radius.
My questions are:
1. What experience do you have from similar projects?
2. What technologies are there? We do have copper wire ADSL, which is giving us anything from 3.5 to a little better than 200 kb/s. Depending on distance from the telephone station.
3. What technologies can be expected in the next five years? Radio? Satellite? Better (higher rate) copper utilization? Other?
4. Improvements in "fiber tapping" technology, so that individual houses can tap into existing long distance fibers?
5. What alternatives are there to digging ditches? Putting fiber on power lines? (telephone lines may be a bad choice if telecom companies or copper thieves decide to remove the line) Or going to cellular radio systems for short distance coverage?
6. How necessary do you think that a 100 Mb/s connection is? I am satisfied with my 100 - 200 kb/s connection. I can wait a few seconds before a document is loaded. No probs for me. But, then again, I do not watch streaming video or play games with heavy graphics.
7. Any other views and experience that you have?
Thanks a lot in advance!
To do so, we were supposed to form a group and do the digging and put tubing for the fibre from our local telephone station to as many as possible of our wide-spread dwellings. Our village consists of a central "core" with something like 30 houses in a distance less than a mile from the telephone station and then a sparse collection of houses spread out over an area with three or four miles radius.
My questions are:
1. What experience do you have from similar projects?
2. What technologies are there? We do have copper wire ADSL, which is giving us anything from 3.5 to a little better than 200 kb/s. Depending on distance from the telephone station.
3. What technologies can be expected in the next five years? Radio? Satellite? Better (higher rate) copper utilization? Other?
4. Improvements in "fiber tapping" technology, so that individual houses can tap into existing long distance fibers?
5. What alternatives are there to digging ditches? Putting fiber on power lines? (telephone lines may be a bad choice if telecom companies or copper thieves decide to remove the line) Or going to cellular radio systems for short distance coverage?
6. How necessary do you think that a 100 Mb/s connection is? I am satisfied with my 100 - 200 kb/s connection. I can wait a few seconds before a document is loaded. No probs for me. But, then again, I do not watch streaming video or play games with heavy graphics.
7. Any other views and experience that you have?
Thanks a lot in advance!
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.





RE: Broadband options in rural Sweden?
In the Scandinavian countries there is an offering for ADSL broadband using the old NMT 450 frequencies, which means longer distances are no big issue.
The company is called Net1.
http://www.net1.se/
No affiliation.
Benta.
RE: Broadband options in rural Sweden?
In the Scandinavian countries there is an offering for CDMA broadband using the old NMT 450 frequencies, which means longer distances are no big issue.
The company is called Net1.
http://www.net1.se/
No affiliation.
Benta.
RE: Broadband options in rural Sweden?
Benta.
RE: Broadband options in rural Sweden?
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.
RE: Broadband options in rural Sweden?
Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
RE: Broadband options in rural Sweden?
Is this a county-wide network? Or community-wide? What about costs? What rate (kb/s) can be achieved? Is it symmetrical (same speed for upload and download)? Or is it like ADSL, with slower upload?
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.
RE: Broadband options in rural Sweden?
Fortunately, I live/work in a part of Northumberland where the locals don't eat their offspring.
H
www.tynevalleyplastics.co.uk
Why be happy when you can be normal?
RE: Broadband options in rural Sweden?
http://www.gov.ns.ca/econ/broadband/faq/
[Amusingly, the local telco is now rolling-out fibre to the home for all only two years later. The FTTH will provide up to 170 Mbps. I'll take it the instant it's available.]
For the "last [N] mile[s]" they used a Radio WAN technology. I believe that one of the providers uses Motorola Canopy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Canopy
Cheaper solution would be Wifi with high gain yagi antennas. You'd need to hopscotch to reach those distances. Might be a pain in the...
There are many point to point solutions for Ethernet bridging. They're only actually license-free if they're actually license-free in your jurisdiction.
RE: Broadband options in rural Sweden?
LTE is supposed to make cost/bit cheaper.
Current satellite will always be sub-par due to latency, cost, usage limits. Far-future with swarms of low- or mid-orbits may be a universal communications solution.
Fibre to the Home is now feasible, simply by forcing the installation cost to be much less (now reported to be only about $500 per home).
RE: Broadband options in rural Sweden?
The company will charge $59.99 per month for 10 gigabytes (GB) of data and an initial fee of $199.99 for installing the antenna device either on an outside wall or at the roof. Home Fusion provides download speed of 5 to 12 megabits per second and 2 to 5 megabits for upload.
http://w
RE: Broadband options in rural Sweden?
I suspected that there are a lot more possibilities than fibre. And your replies confirm that.
I think there's more to learn and I will follow this thread for many weeks to come. KUTGW!
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.
RE: Broadband options in rural Sweden?
You mean "Fortunately, I live/work on the other side of the river from where the locals eat their offspring."
----------------------------------
If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
RE: Broadband options in rural Sweden?
H
www.tynevalleyplastics.co.uk
Why be happy when you can be normal?
RE: Broadband options in rural Sweden?
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.
RE: Broadband options in rural Sweden?
Using standard fiber equipment will be more serviceable and better understood by more service providers.
Look for less expensive installations. In the USA a lot of fiber runs next to railroad tracks. This was because some clever engineers figured out how to shove a single plow blade with a locomotive. This got a cable dropped 2 meters underground without actually lifting and removing any dirt. It was just a temporary wedging-apart of the dirt long enough for the cable to drop in.
Driving a tractor a few miles, albeit slowly, for 90% of your install might make good economic sense. You'd probably only need to go down something like 800cm in your location.
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Broadband options in rural Sweden?
I have been thinking along that track.
Actually, I have sketches showing a similar arrangement. But this one will be mounted on an ordinary farmer's tractor and use the tractor's power available for attachments. A plow or a "wheel with spades" followed by a device that presses the tubing into the ditch will be used to "route" an extra trench in the bottom of the ditches that go along all our dirt roads over here. A scraper will then put the mud back onto the tubing and we will probably also use a brightly coloured tape to alert "guys with a spade" I figure that we will need a 30 cm deep trace at the bottom of the ditch.
I have a very skilled blacksmith with a complete workshop only some 500 meters away. He doesn't know it yet, but he will be engaged in this work.
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.
RE: Broadband options in rural Sweden?
http://www
The large bulldozer types just use brute force and 'pull' the blade through the ground. The smaller residential drop models like the one in the link above use a vibratory device to make the blade 'saw' or 'knife' through the ground.
Anecdote alert: cable was being laid (this happened to be phone) all throughout a rural community and all the water lines, gas lines, etc. (no sewers - all field lines) had been marked accordingly. The plow was forging along a particular road and all of a sudden, the side of a nearby house just exploded and the kitchen sink started coming across the yard. Seems that someone had tied on to the water works clandestinely (sp?) and with hard pipe so the water company hadn't known to mark it. Oooppps.
rmw
RE: Broadband options in rural Sweden?
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Broadband options in rural Sweden?
I will let you know how we progress. In the meantime, enjoy the following film from Roger's smithy. Roger is the man in read and without a cap. The guy in cap is Jorma - a real character.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uh6nj30uNtE
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.
RE: Broadband options in rural Sweden?
Didn't realise you lived that far up - must be hard work in winter.
skogs,
Geordies don't eat their offspring. We're the civilised ones from down in the lowlands. Not like where Harry lives.
----------------------------------
If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
RE: Broadband options in rural Sweden?
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.
RE: Broadband options in rural Sweden?
RE: Broadband options in rural Sweden?
When I upgraded from DSL to xDSL, I thought they'd run fiber to the house.
Nope. Same old copper pair.
... which must be connected to fiber not far away, but not at the house.
I used to think I understood this stuff.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Broadband options in rural Sweden?
The other scheme is "Fiber in the Street". They put fiber to coax converters out in front of your house so you just get coax in the house.
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Broadband options in rural Sweden?
Telco sorta-twisted, two pairs, at least 10 years old, from the pole to the demarc box.
My own 4 pair superfine premises cable, 10-ish years old, from the demarc to the center of the house and a couple of RJ sockets.
Generic RJ zipcord to the xDSL box, which looks sort of like the DSL box, with RF and wired Ethernet outputs.
I think it might have a HDMI connector, but we're only using the broadband.
I got a Roku box for Christmas; that brings in HDMI video over the broadband and the twisted pair, with what looks like decent resolution and only occasional droputs.
Damn close to magic.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Broadband options in rural Sweden?
Sounds like an interetsing alternative. Could you, please, read and tell what brand and type the box(es) are? Picture, perhaps?
Damn close to magic is good!
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.
RE: Broadband options in rural Sweden?
I defy you to get any useful technical information out of their website att.com.
Both the DSL and xDSL (U-verse) boxes were made by an outfit called 2WIRE, which sort of supports them at 2wire.com.
I'd be happy to photograph the box, were I not 1500 miles away from it until at least May.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Broadband options in rural Sweden?
Hope you get back home eventually.
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.
RE: Broadband options in rural Sweden?
Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: Broadband options in rural Sweden?
RE: Broadband options in rural Sweden?
I think that's relatively easy. Something like 10% of the users use 90% of the bandwidth. Limiting that 10% of users to no more than 50% more than the typical user would keep the bandwidth from getting overloaded.
TTFN
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies
RE: Broadband options in rural Sweden?
"Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. - Henry Spencer"
Antonia Vladova. Homepage: http://freesatellitetv.me
RE: Broadband options in rural Sweden?
I hate when I miss a meeting.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Broadband options in rural Sweden?
Gunnar Englund
www.gke.org
--------------------------------------
Half full - Half empty? I don't mind. It's what in it that counts.