×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!
  • Students Click Here

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Jobs

Drawing Checking
2

Drawing Checking

Drawing Checking

(OP)
thread765-185533: Originator, Checker and Approver This is in response to the myriad comments on the art of drawing checking.  As a DOD drawing checker for two decades I can validate that the support of management is paramount in a reasonably smooth process.  Without it, you are "fair game" to anyone with an axe to grind, usually has something to do with ego.  Never commit to a meeting where the drawings are to be scrutinized by every tom, dick and harriet who's credentials are dubious and which is not strictly overseen by management; he/she absolutely MUST establish the ground rules for any comment(s), otherwise that meeting will become another gunfight at the OK Corral.  The drawing checker must be given the benefit of the doubt because the drawing package inevitably becomes his/her responsibility once his/her signature appears on the drawings.  That's the key.....SIGNATURES.  Every other drawing not yet ready for public review should always be stamped "PRELIMINARY" to make it clear that that drawing has not yet been "blessed" by the drawing checker.  Management is your flak jacket.

RE: Drawing Checking

You dug up a 5 year old thread to comment on it?

I should give you a star just for giving me a blast from the past...

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

RE: Drawing Checking

Aaagh!  Zombie thread!

RE: Drawing Checking

(OP)
Actually, I came across this site as an aside to wondering, since I am retired, if drawing checkers were considered viable components these days,...and yes, I AM a "blast from the past".  I dunno, my wine cellar is a bit dusty too.  A five-year old thread vice a five-year old wine, you be the judge.

RE: Drawing Checking

Come on guys, not sure pouncing on the newbie is really called for.

slipstream, you might have been better received over in forum1103: Drafting Standards, GD&T & Tolerance Analysis where some of us actually care about the quality of our drawings and think the checking process has merit, not like the unwashed masses herewinky smile.

Plus there has been at least one recent thread touching on checking where your input may be appreciated.

Welcome to Eng-Tips!

Posting guidelines FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm? (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: Drawing Checking

(OP)
Thanks KENAT.  Clearly I cruised up the wrong road; didn't mean to run over anyone's dogma with my karma.  Probably too, should have mentioned that in my experience entitlement was the biggest sticking point when marking up certain originators' drawings.  I think it may have had something to do with the red felt tip pen.  Similar response as waving a red cape at a bull.  

Thanks again, I'll be moving on now to that forum you suggested.

RE: Drawing Checking

Sheesh, somebody not have their pint this morning, Ken? winky smile  I don't think either of us jumped on him, we just noted the ancient thread being resurrected...

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

RE: Drawing Checking

btw...

A.) Just joking
B.) WELCOME!
C.) I heartily agree with what you say about ground rules, OK Corral, etc.  I've been to too many review sessioins that turn into wholesale trashings due to lack of scope and discipline.

RE: Drawing Checking

(OP)
It's all swell now; found the appropriate forum.  Like the man said in "Absence of Malice", "...everyone in the room's smart..."

RE: Drawing Checking

There is a difference between "checking" and "redoing because *my* may is better".

There is value in the former, not much in the latter.
 

Regards,

SNORGY.

RE: Drawing Checking

Well don't spend all of your time over there, slipstream44.  Come back to the fora where sharp wits are often accompanied by sharp claws and where getting pounced on is a right of passage.

Personally I'd love to argue the "management is your flak jacket."  The last place I worked the 'checking' system was nothing more than another method of power mongering and a way to terrorize Project Managers.  In my case, management was a 70 year old fine arts major who spent his career in building maintenance. He was not a form of protection, he was an albatross around my neck that I had to defer to and pretend not to notice his failing memory and other symptoms of Alzheimers.

"Gorgeous hair is the best revenge."  Ivana Trump

RE: Drawing Checking

Funny Snorgy, every designer/engineer I've worked with that really complained about checking across the board turned out it was because their drawings looked like something an MBA would turn out.winky smile

Checking in the DoD/Aerospace etc. field generally seems a bit different than elsewhere, in so much as they take it seriously.

Posting guidelines FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm? (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: Drawing Checking

Kenat

Regards,

SNORGY.

RE: Drawing Checking

Stupid iPad...

Anyway my comment is rooted in an incident in which I had a senior piping designer lay out a pigging skid for me.  Then, the Checker came into the picture and laid it out differently because he liked it better his way.

Burned 40 man hours fixing something that there wasn't a darn thing wrong with in the first place.

That is when checking has no value,

Regards,

SNORGY.

RE: Drawing Checking

(OP)
Typically I would make certain an imposing figure of management was chairing the meeting, if for no other reason than to establish the scope/boundaries of that gathering.  It tended to weed out the casual shooting-from-the-hip types who were posturing for attention.    As far as I was concerned the management rep didn't really have to get in the weeds of the drawing package; just act as a deterrent to inanities.  He would simply stay standing, maybe walk around a bit and call balls and strikes.  I had a pretty good run at this DOD/Navy R&D site using that method; about 90% effective over a period of 20 plus years.  Granted, one must identify and secure the effective manager, one who enjoys that kind of control.  Let HIM/HER massage egos in their inimitable style while you, as the checker can go about fielding legitimate issues.

RE: Drawing Checking

Snorgy,

That's not a "checker"... that's a "changer".  In my view, a checker should essentially redline all issues, and only make changes after they have been approved.

But what do I know, I'm just an EE... I only draw schematics, and electricity flows up or down.

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

RE: Drawing Checking

(OP)
It generally boils down to how much trust is warranted a "checker"; and what actually defines him/her.  There is little use for a tyrant in any scientific endeavor.  The checker must gain an implicit level of confidence from his/her contemporaries, otherwise....well, you said it fine, you will have a "changer" to educate.

RE: Drawing Checking

MacGyverS2000, from where I've seen it with a half decent checker then the designer/drafter/engineer needs to justify not making the change.

Plus there are at least 2 sides to the checking thing.  

There's the design verification aspect that obviously needs to be done by someone familiar with that aspect.  Back in aerospace we had a separate 'structural' approval for that, and to some extent the cheif engineer/tech director approval.

Then there's the drawing completeness/correctness/standard compliance/basic manufactureability... side of things.

Do not get me wrong, in many cases one person can adequately address both sets of issues, however sometimes finding someone that's both a relevant technical 'expert' and a drawing requirements 'expert' can be a challenge.

Posting guidelines FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm? (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: Drawing Checking

(OP)
KENAT: Yes, during my career with what is quaintly referred to around here as "The Navy Base", I wore many hats.  Designer, Checker, Configuration Manager, Project Manager; eventually became the de facto Checker due largely to the need for such a position.  The volume of drawings being prepared was daunting.  So, in essence, I agree that a checker must be capable of investigating a drawing package with the intuitive as well as the statutes.

RE: Drawing Checking

I teach drawing check procedures occasionally at my company to new personnel.  New folks here will not be checking drawings right away, but we want them to know our check process so they will understand what we will be looking for on their drawings.  Also, someday most of them WILL be checking drawings.  We boil checking down to three primary arenas:

1.  Drawing Format.  Does the drawing use the appropriate border, line types, symbology, view orientation, text sizes, dimension styles, etc., in accordance with the company drafting manual?

2.  Design Content:  Is the design in compliance with FAA Regulations, Industry Standards, Company and Customer Requirements, etc?  Were appropriate materials and processes used, and does the design perform the intended function?

3.  Configuration Control:  Are the appropriate changes applied to the correct aircraft?  Are design changes properly controlled as to form, fit and function?

I recommend (and practice when I check) three separate reviews of the drawing...one for each type of content.

We see checking as adding great value.  However, I strongly push in the classroom for a checking engineer to remember that adding value generally means only marking up suggested changes when something is outside the design intent.  "That's the way we did it at my previous employment" or "I really like it better this way" are NOT valid reasons to mark up items.

However, I said "generally" because sometimes long experience can add an enhancement that increases the drawing value.  Thus it may be perfectly valid to say (and I have said this during checks), "The view breakout and orientation you have selected gets the job done.  However, in my experience on the aircraft if you change this view orientation or provide an additional breakout here, you will greatly enhance the understanding of the person who has to install that item."

 

RE: Drawing Checking

To me, the checker adds value when he/she catches drafting and format errors, my drawing errors, etc., on the drawing.  The checker is a pain in the a** when he/she thinks it is his/her responsibility to redesign the project.  By the time the checker gets, it has been vetted through a series of reviews in front of key senior engineering personnel tasked with approving or rejecting design work, so I often have to say to a checker if you don't like the design, take it up with the Chief Engineer, he has approved and promoted it, other wise if it meets GT&D standards, approve it.

We are often reminded by Management that we own the drawing, not the checker.

rmw

RE: Drawing Checking

The only thing that this thread shows is that "checker" means different things to different people.  In my work, the checker (or verifier) is the last line of defence against both poor drawing and bad design.  When the checker and designer don't agree, then it is taken to someone higher for resolution.

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members!


Resources