Is MBA in the Oil&Gas or Energy-Thermal Processing Sector worth?
Is MBA in the Oil&Gas or Energy-Thermal Processing Sector worth?
(OP)
Hi All, I am a fairly new grad currently working with a well reputed EPC (Engineering Procurement & Construction) company in the Oil&Gas sector in Calgary, Canada as a Mechanical EIT (Engineer in Training). I wanted to know the collective wisdom of the following career paths, from the experts who have done this before.
1. Is an MBA worth the time, money, and effort to eventually move up the ladder in the Energy and Processing industries? It seems that Engineers with field operations experience rather than an MBA are the ones who climb to the exec level of decision making roles in the EPC and Client side. Is Masters in Project Management even worth considering?
2. Is a general mechanical engineering Masters in Engineering (M.Eng, not M.Sc) worth considering in these sectors, to move up in ones career? It seems that most M.Eng degrees may be just degree mills which force you to take course which many not have much practical relevance to the particular industry, because of the intensive focus on theory. It seems that unless you are working with an OEM (Original equipment Manufactured), an engineer may not require the same level of detailed technical knowledge if you are working of EPC and Client side. Plus, I am not interested in R&D type career advancement.
3. My ultimate goal is to start a business in the energy or process industry, or to be in an exec position to make significant change/impact in the industry and to implement the latest R&D at a systems level. I feel that for this I will need the finance and marketing background an MBA provides, and the operational experience working on site provides. However, the need for M.Eng is not clear.
Please impart some wisdom, on which experience path I should take to accomplish my goals. Should I first get some site experience, and then get M.Eng, followed by a MBA? In the short term should I try to be a specialist in static or rotating equipment, or try to move into PE (Project Engineering/Management) or Project Controls route? I understand there will be/is a shortage of qualified technical people in North America soon; I would like to be prepared for this as well.
Awaiting all your thoughts. Thank you.
1. Is an MBA worth the time, money, and effort to eventually move up the ladder in the Energy and Processing industries? It seems that Engineers with field operations experience rather than an MBA are the ones who climb to the exec level of decision making roles in the EPC and Client side. Is Masters in Project Management even worth considering?
2. Is a general mechanical engineering Masters in Engineering (M.Eng, not M.Sc) worth considering in these sectors, to move up in ones career? It seems that most M.Eng degrees may be just degree mills which force you to take course which many not have much practical relevance to the particular industry, because of the intensive focus on theory. It seems that unless you are working with an OEM (Original equipment Manufactured), an engineer may not require the same level of detailed technical knowledge if you are working of EPC and Client side. Plus, I am not interested in R&D type career advancement.
3. My ultimate goal is to start a business in the energy or process industry, or to be in an exec position to make significant change/impact in the industry and to implement the latest R&D at a systems level. I feel that for this I will need the finance and marketing background an MBA provides, and the operational experience working on site provides. However, the need for M.Eng is not clear.
Please impart some wisdom, on which experience path I should take to accomplish my goals. Should I first get some site experience, and then get M.Eng, followed by a MBA? In the short term should I try to be a specialist in static or rotating equipment, or try to move into PE (Project Engineering/Management) or Project Controls route? I understand there will be/is a shortage of qualified technical people in North America soon; I would like to be prepared for this as well.
Awaiting all your thoughts. Thank you.





RE: Is MBA in the Oil&Gas or Energy-Thermal Processing Sector worth?
Some of us prefer to stay on the pure technology side of things
RE: Is MBA in the Oil&Gas or Energy-Thermal Processing Sector worth?
Have you read all of the other threads on this forum about the "worth" of an MBA?
RE: Is MBA in the Oil&Gas or Energy-Thermal Processing Sector worth?
Regards
Pat
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RE: Is MBA in the Oil&Gas or Energy-Thermal Processing Sector worth?
Although I have read many posts on eng-tips, this was my first time posting here, or any forum for that matter.
cranky108- I do not consider management as the dark side. As you need good technical people, you also need good managers to identify and develop these gifted techs. As we all know, not all technical people can be good mangers and vise versa. I do not want to climb up the ladder to play boss. Rather, I feel that you only get a better overall picture of a project/industry, if you are at such a high level; perhaps one may also be able to influence change within the industry.
SWComposites- Yes, I have asked these questions to many of my immediate managers, and whom ever I come across in the field. Some agree that MBA is a useful tool in general to move up. However, I have also spoken to many others, who had no use from his/her MBA. I do not want to do an MBA just to put it at the end of my name. I would like use it to achieve my ultimate goal.
patprimmer- Thank you for your advice or the bias that may exist. I did realize this was more of a technical form and that many people may not look fondly upon an MBA, but I wanted to hear all sides of the story before I make a decision.
Many thanks to all who have responded so far; hope to hear from other vantage points as well.
RE: Is MBA in the Oil&Gas or Energy-Thermal Processing Sector worth?
Where's SNORGY?
Fe (IronX32)
RE: Is MBA in the Oil&Gas or Energy-Thermal Processing Sector worth?
SNORGY is one I had in mind when I commented.
Regards
Pat
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RE: Is MBA in the Oil&Gas or Energy-Thermal Processing Sector worth?
Fe (IronX32)
RE: Is MBA in the Oil&Gas or Energy-Thermal Processing Sector worth?
Regards
Pat
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RE: Is MBA in the Oil&Gas or Energy-Thermal Processing Sector worth?
Looking at the same population I see it pretty rare for engineers to have a technical masters (earth-sciences guys all have technical masters and many have technical PhD, but not engineers). I don't think my MSME hurt my career, but it did seem to shift it pretty solidly away from a management path.
Starting a business or moving into top management in an Oil Company are absolutely divergent paths. For example, if you want to start an engineering consulting business, professional qualifications are more important than academic qualifications (i.e., in the U.S. you pretty much have to have a P.E. to start an engineering consultancy, the PEng is probably just as crucial in Canada). Starting an Oil Company demands hands-on experience in Land, Prospect identification, and drilling. Too much education seems to be a major drawback in that arena.
Starting out a career, you should take advantage of all the opportunities you can get your hands on. Try to get assignments that interface with clients (these all require non-trivial amounts of travel) to build your personal network. Establish a reputation as someone who goes the extra mile without complaining. Take on crappy jobs as an opportunity to try to turn them into successes. Starting out, your attitude will define who you become. I found that a drive to be in the front of the room helped me get the kind of jobs that put you in front of some pretty cool rooms because that drive seems to be in short supply (most of the people I worked with in a big company preferred not to do presentations).
David
David
RE: Is MBA in the Oil&Gas or Energy-Thermal Processing Sector worth?
My "MBA-DAR" led me here...
Umm...well...
But for the fact that the typical requirement for an MBA in EPC is for a perfectly good engineer to have a Massive Brain Anyeurism, there is not a lot to be found fault with in your aspirations. And in Calgary, no less? I suppose one has to admire your courage for even *mentioning* MBA and ENGINEER in the same paragraph in *that* (this) town.
With an MBA, you Might Be Adept in business, but at the same time, Might Be Atrocious in engineering. Or perhaps it is I who Might Be Apprehensive about it.
Ribbing aside...
I have seen one guy pull it off, and I have tremendous respect for him. A very intelligent man and one of the best clients I ever had. I think the thing that made (makes) him special is that he doesn't let his MBA get in the way of his P.Eng., and he has learned that both functions are worthy of great respect when performed correctly. While my personal experience with MBAs leading engineering companies has not been positive, I have boiled it down to one observation. Which is...
When an engineer wants to start a business and run his or her own company, he or she listens very carefully to all of the advice given to him by business-focused people, such as MBAs; however, when an MBA wants to run an engineering company, he or she generally either trivializes, dismisses or simply never listens to anything the engineers have to say.
Therein lies the problem.
My advice to you is, if you want to lead engineers, then listen to them and pay close attention to every aspect of their work that creates trouble for them. You can't help solve anything that you don't understand in the first place. That's what a lot of MBAs fail to grasp.
Get the engineers on your side and you will be able to achieve a lot of good things.
Regards,
SNORGY.
RE: Is MBA in the Oil&Gas or Energy-Thermal Processing Sector worth?
Hurry up, finish your MBA, move on and make room for someone useful to take your old position.
RE: Is MBA in the Oil&Gas or Energy-Thermal Processing Sector worth?
Well said. MBA engineers are not "technical" anymore, rendering them useless for engineering related tasks.
Fe (IronX32)
RE: Is MBA in the Oil&Gas or Energy-Thermal Processing Sector worth?
RE: Is MBA in the Oil&Gas or Energy-Thermal Processing Sector worth?
Regards,
SNORGY.
RE: Is MBA in the Oil&Gas or Energy-Thermal Processing Sector worth?
Just ask yourself these questions:
Do I want to work longer hours for the same or a little more pay?
Can I stay calm when people challenge my authority or decision making?
Do you like public speaking and having to answer tough questions on the spot?
Are you ok with caring about everyone's problem when nobody care about yours?
Remember though that everything bottle necks at the top and everyone has a boss to answer to. My preference is to stay technical, sleep in my own bed, eat diner with my family, and live a longer less stressful life. I've seen so many high risers fizzle out because they aren't related to an executives family or for other reasons that have nothing to do with how well they perform relative to their peers in management.
RE: Is MBA in the Oil&Gas or Energy-Thermal Processing Sector worth?
David, your point is what concerns me the most, I would like to get my MBA out of the way when I am young, but the consensus seem that a MBA is only useful ones you prove your personality is suited for a management or supervisory post at the least. Also, and MBA is only useful if you can apply what you learned immediately, to solidify the concepts, just like other subjects.
I will definitely get my P.Eng. However it seems that HANDS ON (site) experience in the energy and processing industry trumps any technical master degree in mechanical engineering, unless you are R&D type roles. Am I correct?
If I chose to do M. Eng should it focus on something specific like materials, electro-mechanics (for to understand instrumentation), or just a general degree would be sufficient?
What type of assignments will give me the most exposure EARLY exposure to clients in a meaningful way to accomplish my goals? So should my short term goal be just to get on site? Should I also seek Project Controls type of experience to advance as potential management candidate?
Snorgy: you seem to indicate that MBA is not a very popular choice with EPCs and the Operators for the Energy/Processing Sector, I am correct? So will it become a hurdle with such biases in the industry, rather than help me during early career? Is Masters in Project Managment worth considering for early career prep for managment instead of M.Eng or MBA?
bigTomHanks: Your suggestion to take on an operations supervisor/manager role before I jump ahead to an MBA is very wise. This should allow me to gauge how well I can handle people, as I typically steer away from office politics. As I have never been in a leadership role before, what are some ways I can slowly get my feet wet, to see if I can full such a demanding role of middle management, who is caught between two sides?
My major concern is that I do not want to be a small cog in a big corporate machine. I would like to be a technical specialist, but the thought of a particular skill going out of style with technology seems to be dreading me. Secondly, being purely technical and not paying attention to the financial side of the overall business also irritates me.
Lastly I want to state that MBA in itself cannot make a good engineer a bad one, nor a competent engineer into an incompetent one. These individuals were as such to begin with; MBA is obviously just a tool. A tool is only as good as the craftsmen who wield it! If one studies finance or engineering by oneself from books, nobody (clients) would acknowledge your competence in making a technical or business decision.
Hope to see more opinions
RE: Is MBA in the Oil&Gas or Energy-Thermal Processing Sector worth?
You are the unfortunate recipient of the general disdain that I feel towards MBAs who figure they know more about engineering than the guys and gals who actually hold the credentials. There is only one appropriate word for those types of MBAs, and that word is "idiot".
If I read between the lines, you present as one who wants to advance and be successful while the technical side of engineering is secondary to you. It is as if you are smart enough for you and an interesting pastime, but not what drives you. You appear to define success in terms of being a "mover and shaker, Captain of industry" type instead of being a mere engineer or a mere applied scientist. There is nothing wrong with that, the world has a place for everyone.
In your case, I think mabe the more appropriate context and weighting of your question would be to ask whether or not an engineering degree would be advantageous to you in your business career. I think you are looking at MBAs, Masters Degrees and P.Eng.s as titles and credentials that you can accumulate towards being able to climb the ladder of success faster. There is nothing wrong with that, but if it reflects reality then not only should you pursue an MBA but you should seek a business outside of engineering. Engineering will only continue to disappoint and irritate you.
I think you are driven by something, but it isn't a passion for engineering, necessarily. Like I said, nothing wrong with that.
Regards,
SNORGY.
RE: Is MBA in the Oil&Gas or Energy-Thermal Processing Sector worth?
Relevant engineering experience trumps just about everything. An engineer who has built a bridge (or a wellsite or a gathering system) will get preferential consideration for the next bridge-building project over someone who has just read about building bridges and has his head full of academic theories about how a bridge should be built.
Getting an MS without relevant engineering experience is often a very bad idea. MSME folks who have never built that bridge often bridle at coming into an entry-level training program even though they probably need it more than the BSME guys (who are a tiny bit closer to their senior design project which is too often the closest they've ever come to a practical engineering problem). The MSME guys often want more money to do the same job as a BSME. Without relevant experience it just doesn't happen that way.
Once you get a few years of relevant experience, then an MS can be a career booster (but not a huge one in this industry). No one but you will ever care what you specialized in. They may ask what your theses was in, but they won't really care. If you go that route pick an area you are interested in. I did fluid mechanics. I learned some stuff that has been useful in my everyday career, but I have a bizarre everyday career. Materials would also have been useful. Same with Controls. My passion has always been heat transfer and fluid mechanics, so I went that way.
Assignments that get exposure? The hard ones. The ones that safe guys run from. If you find yourself a small cog on a big project look for a way to make your cog shiny. If you get an assignment to (say) size the relief valves on a vessel, dig into the process and come up with the definitive list of credible scenarios for that process (instead of just grabbing a list that someone else developed for a "similar" process). If you get an assignment to write a gas pipeline model, put in the elevations and evaluate the liquid hold-up for slug-sizing (an important task that is rarely done well). Finally, do this cog-shining for about the same number of hours as the normal phone-it-in method charges (usually that will take some off the books effort, but there really isn't any other way to get to the boardroom if that is your goal).
David
RE: Is MBA in the Oil&Gas or Energy-Thermal Processing Sector worth?
So you don't consider an thesis project to be as good "practical" engineering as an undergrad degree project?
I don't mean to argue, I am just curious. From where I come from an MScEng thesis project encompasses all that a degree project does does and much more.
Of course you could say that some research projects don't even conduct experiments etc.., but what about the ones that do etc.
Fe (IronX32)
RE: Is MBA in the Oil&Gas or Energy-Thermal Processing Sector worth?
David
RE: Is MBA in the Oil&Gas or Energy-Thermal Processing Sector worth?
HAZOP at www.curryhydrocarbons.ca
RE: Is MBA in the Oil&Gas or Energy-Thermal Processing Sector worth?
Help me, I think I am turning in to Snorgy.
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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
RE: Is MBA in the Oil&Gas or Energy-Thermal Processing Sector worth?
David
RE: Is MBA in the Oil&Gas or Energy-Thermal Processing Sector worth?
RE: Is MBA in the Oil&Gas or Energy-Thermal Processing Sector worth?
David
RE: Is MBA in the Oil&Gas or Energy-Thermal Processing Sector worth?
Regards,
SNORGY.
RE: Is MBA in the Oil&Gas or Energy-Thermal Processing Sector worth?
Fe (IronX32)
RE: Is MBA in the Oil&Gas or Energy-Thermal Processing Sector worth?
Kudos to you !!~!
RE: Is MBA in the Oil&Gas or Energy-Thermal Processing Sector worth?
I wholeheartedly agree - the vast majority of MBAs are tools. And that's saying it rather nicely.
Maui
www.EngineeringMetallurgy.com
RE: Is MBA in the Oil&Gas or Energy-Thermal Processing Sector worth?
I am sure I don't have to say this but...that is not a good sign for management or climbing the corporate ladder. Most I know in management are politically savvy and enjoy politicking as sport. Even in the bottom ranks of life, you'll run headlong into politics. You'll have some tough decisions to make, with no clear cut lines of right and wrong thus no clear cut answers will be readily available.
Working with operators and mechanics will help you determine your ability to handle management and politics. Those folks can make you and they can break you.
Nothing will work for you like experience. Get the experience then decide what you want to pursue. The experience you get in an EPC will be vastly different than the experience with an owner/operator. I know some engineers in EPC's that do not have a good feel for the field and what works, equipment-wise and people-wise. The ones who have a good feel for the field have quite a bit of field experience.
Ultimately, you get paid because of your decision-making abilities. You cannot make good decisions from a position of ignorance of what goes on at the base of your business.
I volunteered for the worst jobs to get the experience and learn. You'll run into those who refuse to take projects deemed to be career enders. I succeeded through a lot of hard work and sticking with it. However, that did nothing more than irritate a lot of people because their ignorance of the processes, equipment, project management, people, and economics was obvious. My experience made them jealous. They had no qualms about stabbing me in the back to move ahead of me. Tough lessons will be learned, if you are serious about learning and doing your best. Be prepared.
From my experience, people who are going to move ahead are chosen fairly early and the selection criteria have nothing to do with qualifications, credentials, or merit.
Snorgy, zdas04, and others have made very good points for you, too. Ultimately, you have to assess the experienced responses and do some soul searching about what gets you up in the morning.
Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC