×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!
  • Students Click Here

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Jobs

Entry Level Engineer with well rounded background
2

Entry Level Engineer with well rounded background

Entry Level Engineer with well rounded background

(OP)
Hello All-
I would like to once again thank everyone here who posts and shares their advice, insight, and experience...a truly impressive and helpful site.

I have been working at my current job for the past 18 months, and took the job with the understanding that my salary was that of an entry level engineer, $60K. And while it is true, that this is my first detailed design engineering job since graduating in 2007, I spent several years before, during, and after college in more of a construction management position that I think think brings a lot more to the table than a newly graduated college student might be able to in terms of working with both internal and external employees and customers.

While I am not the worlds best Electrical Design Engineer, and I am aware of this, and trying to find a better fit for me within the company, I have learned a lot in the last 18 months and trying to be as useful and profitable for the company as possible. Last year I got the company standard 3% raise, and at this point I don't see them offering much more this year. I have my 2 year review in July, and would like to push for a more substantial raise.

My question to the forum is, am I being unreasonable to ask for a significant raise, based on the fact that I have been with the company for 2 years, bring minimal Electrical Engineering experience, but have many skills that many Electrical Engineers might not be able to bring to the table in terms of mechanical abilities and communication.
Or, is this just part of what happens when you switch career paths?

Should my salary be just based on my Electrical Engineering abilities, or should other skills, that may not be part of the job description, be accounted for as well?

thank you for your insights!

RE: Entry Level Engineer with well rounded background

Based upon your level of experience (for the job you were hired to do) at time of hire, were you underpaid?  If not, I wouldn't expect miracles...

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

RE: Entry Level Engineer with well rounded background

What are you doing for your company that helps them make money?  

How have you improved/increased your value to the company?

Simplistically to get an above inflation/COLA type raise (ignoring more nefarious techniques or being grossly underpaid initially etc.) you need to have increased your value to the company correspondingly.

This should be relatively easy the first few years of your career as initially you are typically a resource sink until you start to know how to do useful stuff.

While it depends on location etc. $60k is not bad for an inexperienced engineer.

Posting guidelines FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm? (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: Entry Level Engineer with well rounded background

You say you have skills beyond others, but are you using them?  Can you give your employer examples when review time comes around?  Are you keeping a log of tasks and projects that you have been working on in the past 18 months to support your position of using skills that others do not have?  If you can answer YES to all of the above, then asking for/receiving a raise above the company standard should be easy.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."


Have you read FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies to make the best use of these Forums?

RE: Entry Level Engineer with well rounded background

(OP)
Based on my design engineering abilities alone, I would fully agree that the salary is fair. I am in the upper Midwest.

I cannot specifically point out how I am making money for them, as I am most likely costing them money at this point due to engineering inexperience.

However, the skills I bring are going to pay off in organization, communication, and fewer mistakes and less time to resolve the mistakes made in the overall process. Already, I have established great relationships with many people within the company, that has allowed for much better, easier, and less tense communication between sales, manufacturing, mechanical engineering to us.

I have been able to and am willing to, take tasks that would have normally taken up someone else's time, such as assembly or test fixture fabrication, and not only done it, but done it quickly so as to not delay projects or testing waiting for someone else to get to it.

From what I am hearing though, really, to justify a raise, it comes down to more how are you directly making the company money, than how are you contributing to the company in terms of efficiency in general tasks, morale or intradepartment relationships etc? Is this correct?

 

RE: Entry Level Engineer with well rounded background

No, 'soft savings' or similar can be used to justify the raise - it's just a little bit harder.  In fact, for many of us it's hard to directly say how much we've earned for the company or how we've directly benefited bottom line.

Your big deal for a raise though is why you are worth more now than you were last time your salary was adjusted.

Your 'pre existing skills' existed at that time.

Unless you can show you've been able to leverage them more than was expected when your previous pay level was set why should you get more for them now?

Management seem to love lists of achievements, and how they are above or beyond the norm.  If you can provide multiple examples of how you created tooling in 2 weeks that would have taken someone else 1 week, and it made production a lot simpler etc. that may be justification for above inflation raises.

Management are also suckers for 'great communication skills' or similar.  If you can summarize in a compelling way how your skills are better than other folks (and I don't mean by saying how bad others are) and demonstrate how that's helped the company they may buy into it.

Likewise demonstrating increased responsibilities can justify more pay.

(Bare in mind, much of the above applies in an 'ideal state' that few of us really work in - but there have been plenty of threads touching on that before.)

Posting guidelines FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm? (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: Entry Level Engineer with well rounded background

I was going to say, Ken... with your idea, I can slack my way into a Ferrari by year's end! winky smile

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

RE: Entry Level Engineer with well rounded background

(OP)
Thanks very much for the insights, that is a great place to start and good advice on how to present it. My original thought was basically, you hired me knowing nothing of me besides by work history background, and now that you have seen my non-engineering skills in action for 2 years, and given that they have improved this and that, what do you think about XX raise instead of the company standard 3%. This insight will definitely make me put some more "paper work" together on this and see what I can do.

Appreciate it much folks...

RE: Entry Level Engineer with well rounded background

You talk about your non-engineering skills, but also state that your design skills are lacking.  While you may be strong in areas they didn't really consider when they hired you, you are weak in the area they hired you for.  Instead of spending time trying to show off your soft skills, you should be spending your time improving your design skills, since that is what they hired you for.  If they are willing to move you to another job in the company, that is great, but as long as you are considered a design engineer, that should be your focus.

RE: Entry Level Engineer with well rounded background

If you work for a larger organization then the two main ways to get an increase higher than the standard raise are to:
1) Get a promotion and take on more responsibility.
2) Take on more responsibility in your current position so that it appears that you are more valuable than others in your same grade.

Your company is willing to hire and develop people as part of their business model. They get some production out of it but they also expect a certain amount of people in your position to leave at some point.

Once you get a large enough body of knowledge and experience that many people are looking to you for guidance then you don't have much to bargain with in your current position.

The good news is that your day will come and then you will have some leverage to make the big bucks. Expect to earn that extra money though and work hard to get there.

If you feel ready for that level after a few more years where you are at then it may require you to move companies and reinvent yourself into who you want to be.  

RE: Entry Level Engineer with well rounded background

(OP)
Well I just walked into my boss's office, told him I am looking for $100k for being a nice guy and always smiling, or I am out...that is what you guys told me to do right?! Well he didn't take it very well and already hired a new grad for 3/4 my salary! :) jk

In a more serious manner, I truly appreciate the comments and support. I am doing my best to pick up as much as I can, I just get a little discouraged with the rate of becoming "competent" as I am used to being pretty darn good at stuff I do, but I also realize the engineers I am working with have 20+ years of very high level experience, and I am the first entry level to be hired, so trying to keep my head up and my ego down.

Maybe, by pushing hard, spending less of my day here :) and more time just grinding through what I don't currently understand as well, I will show more than anything about my worthiness.

Thanks all!

RE: Entry Level Engineer with well rounded background

You keep bringing up inexperience.  OP, I'd probably put you on probation.  Stop making mistakes.

So far, communicating well with other teams, etc.. that's just doing your job.  I don't see that you've done anything to go above and beyond.

You're making $60k, starting in the upper Midwest, that's high.  Most of my friends that graduated in 2008 started in the mid 40's to 50k range.

Yes, I'm being stern.  You need to start spending your evenings studying, and learning to do your job better.  They hired you to do a job, they didn't hire a nobody, as you said.  Do the job, get paid... do the job and more, get paid more.

RE: Entry Level Engineer with well rounded background

you can study until you are blue in the face. most "experience" comes from real world projects, on the job and from your mentor. also, learning from your mistakes. If you really want that raise, you need to go through the chain of command. Your supervisor reporting to your engineering manager reporting to the office manager. If they all give good reviews, you can probably expect better compensation.

But also realize, that all compensation is directly related to the financial health of the company which is out of your control. Over the last few years, many have gotten pay cuts. A lot of entry level engineers are unemployed. You should be happy that you are
a)getting paid at what appears to be a high level for your experience and
b)working full time
c)expecting another raise this year

RE: Entry Level Engineer with well rounded background

(OP)
Ports-
Be as stern as you want, I have no problem with that and it is the reason I posted what I did. I am not looking for a pat on the back, instead looking for real feedback from real live people who have been there. You make very good points.

My point is, I don't want to be leaving money on the table, that is there to be had. I am not saying I want to be over compensated, however, I go above and beyond what the other senior engineers do here for making sure there is open, non-hostile communications which makes everyone seem to work better together.

So, I came here to see if asking for a raise would make me look like I want something for nothing, or am entitled to it because I am part of a generation that deserves everything for nothing.
CVG-
The company is doing pretty darn well with 25% percent growth for the past several years and $40million plus is sales, but they are also new and growing and that takes TONS of capital, and I realize that too.
 
So, from the comments read here, I really should just be happy with what I am getting, whether or not I feel I am missing out on some pay that I would have had sticking to one career and being less well rounded, beef up my engineering skills and THEN go to the bargaining table with not only engineering skills but the other skills as well.

Thanks again all, and thanks for saving me from looking like a jacka** in the coming months :)

 

RE: Entry Level Engineer with well rounded background

Well within reason there's no harm in asking (ok in reality it can upset some folk but hopefully you get my point) but be realisitic.

Out of interest, have you previously asked your manager what you'd need to do/achieve to get an above average raise/the raise you want?

The implication here is that you don't wait until it's raise time to ask for a raise.  You need to be preparing for some time, for instance asking in 2012 what you'd need to do to warrant a raise in 2013 etc.

Posting guidelines FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm? (probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?

RE: Entry Level Engineer with well rounded background

Unless you were being fecicious with your post, don't you think that the 100K was just a tad bit over the top of an increase over 60K?  

I would have started at 65K - no more under the circumstances.

To me, the 100K figure could have been construed as insulting.  

 

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
http://mmcengineering.tripod.com
 

RE: Entry Level Engineer with well rounded background

(OP)
haha...yes, I was being fecicious...
If I wasn't, I would hope I would have gotten fired for that kind of an increase request!

RE: Entry Level Engineer with well rounded background

OP, You don't have the skills yet to be successful as an engineer.  You've already stated that.  Work on it.  Right now, you do sound entitled.. because you're looking for money that might be available, and not focused on EARNING it.

RE: Entry Level Engineer with well rounded background

Quote (cvg):

A lot of entry level engineers are unemployed. You should be happy that you are
a)getting paid at what appears to be a high level for your experience and
b)working full time
c)expecting another raise this year

That's the God's honest truth right there!  Spent a year waiting to fill one of MANY entry level engineering job positions for the city that I was well qualified for (also have veteran preference) and STILL didn't get hired.  But then again they didn't hire any entry level engineers from my understanding.  Luckily I finally got my first engineering job coming along and it is a once in a life time opportunity that to say the least is a bit over my head.  But as they say with great risk comes great rewards.

Your getting a raise.  To ask for a bigger raise you best have some good proof that you are doing better than they would expect.  It's hard to have a company give you a raise if you were to leave the company and you couldn't find a job that pays better.  Your company may be doing good but if your competition/field is doing bad then it can also effect you not getting a raise, excuse me, a BIGGER raise.  The raise is to keep you from leaving your job.  If you can't get paid higher else where then why would you leave them then?  It's not the sole reason to get or not get a raise but thinking about that aspect too when figuring out if you want to push for a bigger raise.

Architects and engineers are among the most fortunate of men since they build their own monuments with public consent, public approval and often public money.
- John Prebble -

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members!


Resources