Hackers
Hackers
(OP)
htt p://www.fo xnews.com/ scitech/20 12/02/21/a nonymous-h ackers-cou ld-disrupt -us-power- grid-offic ial-warns/
How much truth is there for this to happen?
How much truth is there for this to happen?
When was the last time you drove down the highway without seeing a commercial truck hauling goods?
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RE: Hackers
See http
RE: Hackers
Most utilities have tightened things up so tight on the operations side, that only distribution systems can be effected.
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RE: Hackers
Good on ya,
Goober Dave
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RE: Hackers
RE: Hackers
Bill
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RE: Hackers
The overreaction to all of this is security at whatever cost. Of course the ratepayers need to fund it all. Somewhere there should be a rational discussion regarding risk versus cost, but I have not yet seen that approach. Instead we see the sky is falling approach.
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Isn't all this security kind of moot when there are so many ways you could take down the grid? The outage in California last summer was caused by maintainence personal by accident. I mean if you wanted to, you could easily short out line or destroy bushings and cause a black out if it was critical and how would anyone stop it.
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After all isen't a Fine simular to a Tax.
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Alan
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Easily bypassed if you have access. No bunk here, just the question of relative risk.
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RE: Hackers
Given the recent example of the stuxnet virus damaging Iranian centrifuges, it seems quite possible that a persistent, determined group of hackers could cause at least one "limited power outage".
Is hacking a more efficient way to cause power outages than direct physical attack to critical assets? I don't know, but the ease of physical damage and the lack of it that occurs leads me to believe there has not been a determined group attacking the power grid yet.
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The thing I've never understood about the whole Aurora things is why bother? I could take out a large power plant and nobody will see their lights go out; it might make the business section of the paper; the stock-holders will immediately inconvenienced, and if the repair cost are great enough the rate payers may eventually be inconvenienced too.
But what if the lights in a major city went out at 3:00 every afternoon, or every few afternoons to throw in some anticipation factor. Even if things can be restored in 10-15 minutes people will be screaming for something to be done after the second or third event.
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So is it possible for a group of really bad drivers to cause numbers of power outages in a single location? Or a coordinated number of outages in different cities?
In order to make a coordinated cyber attack of the power grid, would the hackers need to know something about the devices they are hacking into? If so where would they get that information?
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So yes, IF they managed to breach the security and get onto the TSO's computers then it would be fairly easy to create chaos, even if they didn't actually destroy anything. Damaging stuff would be tricky as it usually has local protection, but disrupting operation of a large interconnected grid wouldn't be too difficult just by opening key breakers.
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RE: Hackers
As I recall, 3 HV towers were brought down by bombs in 1968 and a corroded 4th bomb that never went off was found in 1969 in the SF Bay Area, all of which caused mass hysteria over power grid vulnerability and prompted massive expenditures on security measures all across the nation back then, nothing new.
It was speculated at the time to be the Weathermen but was never proven, later some people thought maybe it was the Unabomber who did it. I believe its still officially unsolved though.
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RE: Hackers
The Aurora science experiment is just that, an experiment. What they don't discuss in the report is how many times they tried the experiment before something notable happened. Add in the fact that anti-pump devices DO exist and that breakers only have 3 to 4 operations in them before a "recharge" is needed and it is much ado about nothing. Like David says it isn't a big deal to loose generation, at least in the Pacific NW. I remember when ALL of Grand Coulee was lost due to a fire in the early part of this century...net operational impact was ZERO. The markets got a little froggy though.
I offer up the analogy of getting into the flight control software of an Airbus (for example). IF I knew what I was doing AND if I had UNFETTERED access to it I am sure I could make some pretty horrible things happen.
However, why would you need software to do any of that?
Sabotage is what is really afoot here, and I question the usefulness of a National Lab telling us to be alert to sabotage. I mean really? Seriously? Thanks for the hot tip! Regardless, I think Mother Nature is still the thing to watch out for...
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(2B)+(2B)' ?
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I think the Aurora "vulnerability" has pretty much been thrown under the bus (where it belongs) by the industry (i.e. people with real knowledge so to speak).
The policy types continue to babble on about it, but the truth is that you simply can not bring down the power system from Starbucks...this of course is counter to what the "Prophets (i.e. Profits) of Doom" would like you to believe...
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Besides how lazy of a terrest are you if you never leave Starbucks?
I believe there is a group of people in Washington who want to make utilities look bad, and give them a good reason to take them over. The problem is they just don't know enough about how utilities work to find things that will stick.
So they are left with giving the public the illusion that the evel utilities need to be taken over by the goverment.
RE: Hackers