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New job and lack of mentorship.
14

New job and lack of mentorship.

New job and lack of mentorship.

(OP)
Hi everyone,

  So I'm a recent (2010) grad. I have one year of work experience so far in product development which consisted of a six month internship and six months at my current job. Before I moved to take the new job, I was informed that my boss had been let go. Ordinarily this wouldn't have troubled me as much, but it is a small company and now I'm the only technical person at my location. I was assured that they were looking for a replacement and I figured it would be a good learning experience in the mean time.

Lately there has been a lot of confusion and disarray in the company. I have a difficult time getting clear direction and I find myself with a lot of downtime between projects. The person I now report to lives in a different city and, to make matters worse, spends a lot of time traveling. There is really no one I can turn to in the office to get solid technical guidance from and I find myself spinning my wheels quite a bit.  Our clients have even begun to question our technical competency.  I brought this up with the ownership and they responded by questioning my maturity and commitment level and reminding me that I could be easily replaced. On the plus side, I'm well compensated and I'm getting some good exposure. I do worry about my long term technical development though, as I more or less feel like I work in a vacuum.

Part of me wants to stay put for a while and ride it out. The other part of me sees attractive job postings elsewhere and is considering jumping ship. I would appreciate your advice and insights. Thanks.

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

7
The seasoned veteran jumps ship, the company hires a newbie fresh off the boat to take the reins, the business goes into a tailspin, clients start noticing and management blame YOU.  You don't work in a vacuum.  You work in a dysfunctional hellhole run by spoiled children.  There is nothing to 'ride out.'  Are you expecting some magical turnaround from the business messiah to drop out of the sky?

Get your resume out there and start applying for a different job.  If you are not gaining marketable experience at this stage of your career, it will bite you later on.   

"Gorgeous hair is the best revenge."  Ivana Trump

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

Cass is right.  The only education you're getting is in how NOT to run a business.  You can get that anywhere.  

Get another job, then quit.
 

Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

This is typical advice of this forum. Jump ship, find another better job, ect. easy advice to give, no so easy advice to use.

I wouldn't advise you to do so without complete consideration of  your future and current aspirations.

The job market is a hard place at the moment, you place may seem bad, but have you really looked with an experienced eye. I don't know what you do, but can you get the experience required thru other means? I have gained a lot from my clients, associates and non technical people over my life time, I try to get blood from every stone. how many stones have you tried?
 

http://www.nceng.com.au/
"Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning."

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

For your own good, please take note of the specific order of events Mike recommended that you do.  Very good advice in these times.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
http://mmcengineering.tripod.com
 

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

(OP)
Could I get the experience through other means? Perhaps. I'm not taking the decision to leave lightly which is why I'm asking the advice of people who have been there before. I feel like first jobs should be about learning. There is no "perfect" situation, but I need to be around people of a superior skill and experience level that can teach me the ropes. I want to do things the right way, but no one around me seems to have the answers.

I've also thought long and hard about where I want to be and how this job can help me get there. If things change (a senior is hired) then it could be great. But I get the feeling thats not going to happen for a while as they don't have enough work to keep ME busy all the time. On average, half my working hours aren't billable (its been this way for months). Combine that with my relative inexperience, and you see how that could be a problem for a small company.  I'm also a little disturbed because I think they were planning to let my boss go well before they hired me and neglected to mention I'd end up working alone.

On top of that, this place has a bit of a history of letting juniors go when times get rough. I know for a fact that we've had some financial issues. Lastly a close mentor of mine helped me get this job. I don't want to burn any bridges there either.  Its complicated, I know. Thanks for your advice.

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

Professional organizations, online learning, there are ways for you to learn.  But getting experience, means actually doing it.

You're being petty, if you expect them to tell you of their hiring and firing plans.  Do your job and stop creating drama.

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

Bottom line if you are not happy then you need to look elsewhere.  I have been in a similar situation at my current workplace.  I felt like i wasn't get relevent work experience but when i looked back it was exactly what i needed.  It's a learning exerience and i made mistakes along the way.  I use my growing expereince as a way to build myself up in interviews and it has gone pretty well.  I have had 5 interviews in the past year and now have two job offers to weight.

Understand you aren't the only one out there.  I've had about a year at my work were I wasn't happy at all.  It has made for stressful situations with my girlfriend because all i seem to talk about is how bad work is.  Although when i look back i see it was all relevent to me because it shows me how a company is and is NOT to be run.  

Now for me comes the difficult task of running through this transition period where i go from one job to the next.  I've never left a job before so it will be new waters for me.  

I think as you grow up a bit you will see that it will actually help you rather than hinder you.  and money well thats great that you are compensated well.  If i were you i would test the market and see what you are worth.  Also it may take 2 or 3 interviews before you land an offer.  It took me 3... Good luck dinosaur

I wish you best of luck in this hard time.  And brother i have been there -- rest assured there is light at the end of the tunnel; i promise.



  

 

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

You should always be in the market for a new job. You will either find a better job or better appreciate the job you have. That's assuming you are wise enough to not jump ship for a worse position. I had fairly good mentoring in my first job out of college that lasted almost three years until a plant shutdown. I had no mentoring in the following 30 years and I was the "go to" person for solving problems. Mentoring really had little to do with that. Being the sole technical person in an organization is lonely and not very enjoyable. Welcome to Eng-Tips. I hope to see you on some of the technical forums rather than the psychotherapy forum.

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

Compositepro:

"You should always be in the market for a new job."

This is good advice, but I would file it under the category of "Whatever you are doing, there are ways to improve upon it."

I try to look for increased productivity and efficiency in everything (even ironing my shirts).  I feel that attitude has served me well in my career and allowed for continual personal and technical growth.

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

NO ONE has ever thrown me a curve ball I couldn't handle.  Could I do it in five minutes - NO - BUT I got it done!!!

I have one engineer here (a PE) that routinely comes into my office and says he can't do this or that.  I do one of two things:

1.  Tell him to take the project down the street (literally) to our competitor and I am sure they will figure out a way or -

2.  I give it to another engineer to complete.

His days are numbered......

Do you want a little cheese with that whine??

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

Mike, that's a great attitude.  A career as an engineer is a life of learning.

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

I always have a good story of something I have learned at even the worst jobs. I have had jobs that were stressful and I have had jobs that were easy to the point of being boring. I'd much rather take the boring job and concentrate more on myself/family rather than working myself to death at some company that won't even remember my existence 5 years after I leave. Working for smaller companies can be a great learning experience if the company allows you to wear many hats and not just the technical ones. If however you work for jerks, the only thing you are learning is how to survive working for a jerk. If you do decide to look for another job don't worry about what people will think of you. I'd say that 75% of all managers/engineers that you would work for were in a similar situation that you are in at some point in their career.

Mike - did you pat yourself on the back before or after you moved that mountain all by yourself? Not to be confrontational but you sound like you would be quite difficult to work with/for. Have you tried to develop this person or is it your way or the highway?  

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

I'm a 2007 grad, I interned for a small company through school and went to work for them for another nine months after school to help them finish a project.  Moved on to another company and decided to go for my PE recently.  Guess what after four years experience I wasn't able to go for my PE because the small company didn't have an in house PE.  I'm lucky because it was only nine months, so I didn't lose too much time.

I think you are learning valuable non engineering skills, but for being young I think it is very important that you work under experienced engineers to help you build a strong foundation.  Even if you don't want your PE, go to work for a bigger company with an engineering department that wants to see you succeed.  You will learn a lot and gain a lot of confidence.  

Best of luck.     

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

Designosaur, after letting this topic soak for a few days I think this is your warning sign:

Quote:

I brought this up with the ownership and they responded by questioning my maturity and commitment level and reminding me that I could be easily replaced.

I'd say quit browsing those job openings, and start applying to the ones you want.  There's no harm in doing that, and if you land a few interviews, attend them.  You know the working environment you are in now, so you should have a pretty good idea of the types of questions you need to ask your future employers.  Don't forget to let them know what you want out of them.

"Art without engineering is dreaming; Engineering without art is calculating."


Have you read FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies to make the best use of these Forums?

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

designosaur,

   I wish I had had proper mentoring when I started.  I learned much of my stuff by trail and error.  Don't think the errors will not follow you around.  

   I suggest the new job.

               JHG

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

NO - I am not a MY WAY or Highway type guy at all.  I have been doing this for almost 40 years.  He has been with me for almost 15 years - probably my fault - should have dumped him years ago.

I have nurtured, trained and held the hands of dozens of engineers - most went on to very successful careers.

I have trained dozens of people in product use, software use and given numerous seminars.  Always got rave revies for training.

Right now this is my "FROG" - something I have to eat and get rid of.

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

Mike - the context of the thread was a fairly recent graduate so I assumed this person was young. Given that he has 15 years of experience I can understand your frustration. I have however worked with guys who wouldn't allow their coworkers to develop because they were always stealing the show and would never take a back seat to allow them to develop. The other person just got used to it and took advantage of the situation to their benefit. I can't blame them for that because it's either take a back seat and coast or take charge and risk a confrontation with that person.  

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

NO - you got to let any engineer or for that matter any person in ANY job go FREE and learn.  Yes they will make mistakes - but hopefully you will catch them before someone gets hurt.  THAT is how they learn.

If they do a good job - I reward them and let my boss know that this person can be trusted and groomed.

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

I worked at this one place where I was the only controls engineer.  Most places had a base project to work from, not this place.  The manager was a piece of work, said everytime there was a problem, his only solution was, "Make it go away".  

I made a ton of mistakes, made some projects late but they all got done, alot of sink or swim scenes. Even sometimes had outside help, but hey that time I was sinking.  

So was it worth it?  I don't know, all I know is I don't make those mistakes anymore, only because they are painful memories burned into my brain.  Is all the stress worth it?  Was all the experience worth it?  To me thats a personal call.  If I could do it again, I think I would not of taken that job.

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

When I graduated collage is got a similar job designing cranes for a large company. The senor engineer retired shortly after. The PE i was supposed to get direction from was in another time zone and it made it very hard to get any serious work that needed his approval done.

The good thing was I was able to spend alot of time on Eng-Tips and use it like a mentor.

I also used the time to over analyze any real engineering work i needed to do. I.E. learn and know alternative equivalent bolts for the a connection why the company did it one way...

But i can say the best thing i did was quite and go to another company with 6 engineers 2 which are very senor.

The best part of my quitting was, talking to the PE and having him till me he was quitting because he did not feel comfortable with the way all the MBA's were using our engineers and that were trying to cut cost on stuff that was "industry standard" for safety reasons. He then said I should find another job because they were unfair to me, and would probably press me to make decisions above my ability, and pay.

I told him "Can I'll call you back in 10 min?"

I took my letter of resignation down to my boss, handed it in.

Returned to the phone, "I just resigned too, I had the letter on my desk and just needed a kick in the pants."   

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

(OP)
Thanks for all of the advice. I had another conversation with the owner. He acknowledged that my concerns were valid and that I was right about the situation, which they are taking steps to rectify. I also managed to score a verbal offer a few days back from another company. It seems like it would a perfect fit for what I'm trying to learn at this stage of my career not to mention more competitive pay, better benefits and a world class city unlike the sleepy suburb where I now reside. My folks tell me I should stick it out for at least the year. I have a lot of thinking to do over the coming days.  

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

I would consider gently reminding your boss repeatedly about your lack of a mentor and if something wasn't done in a reasonable amount of time, quit.  It's your career and you're not doing yourself any favors by staying in a position where you're not learning from someone who has already been there.

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

This could be a great time for you to take charge and come into your own.  Learn your job in your spare time... study up.  And then start designing things, building things, according to current standards.  You are in a position to come into your own.

Or.. you could quit, go to another job and be mentored more.. and be someone else's 2nd banana for another 3-5 years.

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

It sounds like management will boot him before he can get up to speed.  
"You're an engineer you should be able to control the weather right?"
Sincerely
Greedy Moron

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

I would consider management's warning that they could replace you as a red flag to get your resume polished. My experience has been that when you hear something like that it's only a matter of time.

This company sounds like dysfunction junction, and you need to play the team-player role to the hilt until you find another job, but definitely get looking sooner rather than later.

Best wishes, and I hope everything works out in your favor.

TZ

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

Quote:

I brought this up with the ownership and they responded by questioning my maturity and commitment level and reminding me that I could be easily replaced.

That is bullying and it is wrong.  It creates mental stress you, and they, don't need.  I'd say it's pretty mature, commendable and demonstrates integrity to be concerned about the customer's perception of the competency of your company.  After all, that's how your company makes its money, i.e., keeping its customers satisfied and confident they're buying a good, solid product.  Customers walk, positive cash flow walks.

Quote:

He acknowledged that my concerns were valid and that I was right about the situation, which they are taking steps to rectify.

He can admit his mistakes, which is a good trait to have.  He may have had a bad day, when you discussed the customer's perception.  But remember, his first response is the reaction of a bully.

Getting rid of employees is usually not a rush decision.  That was my personal experience.  They knew years in advance.

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

(OP)

I ended up getting let go. The reasons given were that they couldn't afford to give me a boss, pay for my learning curve or give me the exposure I needed to be successful. They felt that I needed a lot of supervision and they wanted someone that could work autonomously. The strange thing is that they even gave me some recommendations on where I should apply. The good news is that I have been on the job hunt for months now and I'm starting to get some interviews/interests. I worry about how to explain this previous situation as I don't think people want to hire employees that have been cut.

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

My advice is not to be too worried about being cut/fired/whatever. Be upfront and honest with future employers about why you're between jobs. Most places wont place new engineers in a vacuum, but in an environment where they are expected and encouraged to learn. Good luck with your job search.

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

Tell the truth and don't worry about it. It will all work out in the end. Don't let bitterness, resentment, or anger seep into your perspectives on your previous employer and that situation. Take the high road every time and let bygones be bygones. The right people will appreciate your honesty.

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

You will do fine if you follow the advice given of being honest and open. The idea of being let go or fired does not carry as much of the same reputation as it maybe did in the past. There are so many people who have been let go or downsized in the past 3-4 years that most potential employers at least understand that it isn't always the employees fault.

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

I was kind of in this boat of no training really offered, also a recent grad (Dec. 2011). I got here and day 1 was take the drug test/paperwork day 2 they said hey you are going to this project prebid meeting at 2, don't be late. I asked them some questions such as what was it about and what do I do at the meeting etc? I got a few very vague answers then I finally just came out and asked if he would go with me to this meeting since I have never done anything like this and I wanted to get an idea of what I was supposed to do/what info. was relevant for me to get. To this question all I received was "No, we hired a EE because you are trained as an engineer. That means we can drop you into impossible situations and you will be able to at least come back with something. It might not be everything but at least we will have something to go off of." That made me feel a little better but not much and here I am just over 2 months later getting better at it. I don't think it is my dream job but it is a start to get me on my path to where I want to be and to move up these days you have to have some experience.

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

I wouldn't worry about being let go in this situation. You were basically in a department that collapsed. Your management sounds like a bunch of loose cannons, but I think their reasoning for letting you go is the best decision for you, and them.

There are engineers out there who can hit every curve ball like Mike mentioned, but those types of engineers generally dont have a leg to stand on if something should go wrong.

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

Being let go isn't a big deal.. being fired for cause is...

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

(OP)
I ended up getting another offer. I was fortunate to only be out of work a few weeks. This new position is also in an area I have been trying to break into for a while. The company has a good history of training new people so hopefully I won't run into the same issues again. I'm looking forward to starting my 'new' career off on the right foot. Thanks again for your advice and encouragement.

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

MadMango nailed it.

"I brought this up with the ownership and they responded by questioning my maturity and commitment level and reminding me that I could be easily replaced."

To me, that is time to start looking for something better to move on to.

I'm glad to hear you found something else so quickly. I was in your situation once and got laid off too, it took me almost 6 months to find anything new.

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

Just as a random semi-related contribution to this thread, I have been working for 5 years out of college, and have yet to find a job with direct experienced engineering oversight. Sometimes I wonder what it's like to actually have someone to check your work or bounce ideas off of.

"Engineers like to solve problems. If there are no problems handily available, they will create their own problems." -Scott Adams

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

True, and I'm extraordinarily thankful for it, but there's a lot that I have to worry about insofar as nondisclosure, revealing project details, and simply giving enough background for someone outside my particular field to understand enough of what's going on to give helpful advice.

Also, I can only ask for help if I know I need it. There's an old machinist here who'll snoop over my shoulder every so often and catch a glaring error in my design before it gets to be a huge problem. I can only imagine the sort of stuff an old engineer would catch.

"Engineers like to solve problems. If there are no problems handily available, they will create their own problems." -Scott Adams

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

You gotta love the apprentice system! Wish we still had it. Look for that "mentorship" opportunity in future employment.

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

That is a great opportunity to command the ship. Youre not stuck with someone holding you back with old ideas. Take advantage of the responsibility by letting yourself shape the company and position that you have.

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

supercub

You sound young and so inexperienced that you don't yet know enough to be afraid of your own lack of knowledge.

Hint. What you learned at university falls far short of what you need to know in the real world.

Regards
Pat
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RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

@patprimmer... I was lucky enough to have a professor who told us early on that when we graduated, we knew nothing. That piece of paper only proved that we were capable of learning the required knowledge to do the job. I worked while I was taking classes and the learning and experience went hand in hand. I am quite confident that I wouldn't have understood my work as well if I hadn't had the classes but I also wouldn't have understood my classes as well if I hadn't been working...

@designosaur... If it were me I would take the downtime between projects to further your knowledge in the form of research and studying the fields that you feel you are lacking in... I'm not saying that you don't already do this but you can learn a lot on your own WITH EFFORT... Good luck!!!

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

designosaur, congratulations! I hope your new job will provide everything you desire.

Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

I am in the same boat as designosaur, except I don't have much down time. All of my boss' work has been put on my shoulders and I simply don't have enough time in a 7-5 day to get it all done. To boot they expect me to train a new engineer probably 10 years older than I (24) to pick up the slack which has proven difficult seeing as English is not his first language. Again, its a small company and I am thinking of jumping ship.

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

BMKR,
This sounds like more of an opportunity to shine than a bad situation to me, but I can see where there is difficulty. MOST companies understand that when an employee leaves, there is often a small period where productivity will drop off if there is no immediate replacement. All you can do is make sure you are doing your best and try to stay positive. I would stick it out and make the best of it, but from a lot of the posts I have seen, I have a rare outlook on some of the situations that have been presented on these boards.

Boottmills

RE: New job and lack of mentorship.

Boottmills,

I guess I forgot to mention that The engineering department is myself and the new engineer, and I have only been working here for a year and some change. The company is quite top heavy and I feel like I am being under compensated for my time and efforts.

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