On the way out....How Do you Do it
On the way out....How Do you Do it
(OP)
so I want to quit my job and go out on my own because my boss is a (insert adjective here). I won't type the sob story here.
The jobs I have access to (giving proposals on) I only know about because of where I work. Half of which I brought in.
How ethical is it to tell my boss "up yours" and then call up client A to Z and say "by the way, I'm on my own and here is my proposal"?
The jobs I have access to (giving proposals on) I only know about because of where I work. Half of which I brought in.
How ethical is it to tell my boss "up yours" and then call up client A to Z and say "by the way, I'm on my own and here is my proposal"?





RE: On the way out....How Do you Do it
"Gorgeous hair is the best revenge." Ivana Trump
RE: On the way out....How Do you Do it
Telling your boss "up yours" is ethical, but impolite.
Poaching clients, even if you brought them in, is not ethical.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: On the way out....How Do you Do it
1. Overtly or covertly taking the clients of another firm is unethical. Just get your own. It takes time and work, but it is worth it.
2. Don't burn your bridges with your boss. It WILL come back to bite you in your pocketbook, and your reputation. Be adult about it and just leave quietly.
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
http://mmcengineering.tripod.com
RE: On the way out....How Do you Do it
Not the end of the world, but the bad things you do for yourself can outlive the brief satisfaction that follows.
RE: On the way out....How Do you Do it
RE: On the way out....How Do you Do it
The "new company" may ask why are you "on your own" now. Be prepared for an honest answer.
Chris
SolidWorks 11
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion
RE: On the way out....How Do you Do it
B.E.
The good engineer does not need to memorize every formula; he just needs to know where he can find them when he needs them. Old professor
RE: On the way out....How Do you Do it
My philosophy is to leave with dignity. You may never know what will happen in the future. If things go bad you may want to return. Is your boss and employee as you are or is he the owner?
I fully agree with Mike about taking clients of another firm. We are owned by an American company and we have to sign a code of business conduct amongst which, it says
"All non-public information about the Company should be considered confidential
information"
Joe Borg
RE: On the way out....How Do you Do it
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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
RE: On the way out....How Do you Do it
I agree that the short term satisfaction isn't worth it.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: On the way out....How Do you Do it
RE: On the way out....How Do you Do it
Saying that you can do it cheaper than your boss, might be crossing a line.
Using confidential information taken from your last employer such as labor and overhead rates, billing rates, client lists, proprietary information or perhaps poaching their employees to work for you etc. certainly is not ethical.
Some employment contracts have non-compete clauses, you should read yours.
http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=178664
http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=296739
RE: On the way out....How Do you Do it
I've crossed paths many times with past collegues years and thousands of miles from where I last worked with them, and it is typically a pleasant experience. Usually I give management deservedly positive comments regarding their capabilities, and have been occasionally directly responsible for their being brought on board.
On the other hand, I have also prevented a few from being hired when their resumes came across my desk for comment, due to my previous experiences with them, again years and thousands of miles from where I had last worked with them.
So, as cliche as it may seem, what goes around does come around and the fewer professional bridges you burn can be considered an investment in your future. Definitely not worth the fleeting satisfaction of telling them to "take this job and shove it", as tempting as that may be.
Technically, the glass is always full.
RE: On the way out....How Do you Do it
As far as "stealing" clients if you didn't sign any non-competition agreement with your employer in this regard it's ethical provided you're not using any confidential or proprietary information developed by your employer. Financial advisers and advertising executives, to name a few, take clients with them when the change firms.
RE: On the way out....How Do you Do it
A few years later I ran into him in the halls and he's now a consultant for the old company and quite happy. His comment was "see, burning bridges is just not an adult thing to do". I learned from that experience that the better terms you leave on the better off you are.
As to what you can take with you, the answer is basically nothing. No client lists/contact info. No confidential proposals. No proprietary techniques. You didn't pay for any of those things and taking them is stealing.
David
RE: On the way out....How Do you Do it
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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
RE: On the way out....How Do you Do it
Certain information as mentioned in some previous posts even if not written is still a no go. Some areas are definitely various shades of grey and as David says, different greys look different to different people.
Also there are 3 sides to this. You ex employers rights and ownership, your rights and ownership and the customers rights to choose suppliers and even ownership of what they may have already paid for.
Regards
Pat
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RE: On the way out....How Do you Do it
RE: On the way out....How Do you Do it
I started my my own company a few years ago in the same manner of being fed up, and everyone knows everyone in one way or another. I can't believe it sometimes.
B+W Engineering and Design
Los Angeles Civil Engineer and Structural Engineer
http://bwengr.com
RE: On the way out....How Do you Do it
A former director had used his administrator as a slave for several years. I was in the vicinity when the straw that broke the camel's back was applied. I remember the phrase well:
"You can stick your f****** job up your f***** a***"
And she stormed out. One of our sales guys sniggered that she'd be back ... because she'd left her car keys on the desk. We all hid when she did.
But yes, burning bridges in any situation just isn't worth it.
- Steve
RE: On the way out....How Do you Do it
RE: On the way out....How Do you Do it
If they really are your clients they will find you.
RE: On the way out....How Do you Do it
Do not do that on company time!
B.E.
The good engineer does not need to memorize every formula; he just needs to know where he can find them when he needs them. Old professor
RE: On the way out....How Do you Do it
The company itself proved time and again it was incapable of joined up thinking when some one left.
The telephone receptionist was beside herself having to explain time and again that "so ad so is no longer with the company." and then spend a lot of time trying to sort ought to whom she needed to refer the call.
I also did circulate my colleagues.
But as to a blanket email to all my contacts?
That seemed very unprofessional to me.
PS as might be inferred from the thread in the ethics forum, I did take my contact list but have been very careful about using it in any way that would seem unprofessional. Certainly not to directly solicit business or seduce clients away.
This is, to me, an important question: how we are perceived by our professional contacts and acting professionally is important. It's a bit of a catch 22 but that's life.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com