CPVC pipe failures
CPVC pipe failures
(OP)
All:
I've been contacted by a customer who is concerned about CPVC pipe failure. A note was mentioned about its use or non use in Florida.
Has there been a rash of CPVC failures in the US?
I've searched the interwebs and can only find websites offering expert witnesses regarding plastic failure. I've looked for NFPA or another official resource and can't find anything addressing it. I'm none too sure a problem exists.
Has anyone here experience with CPVC failure not caused as an installation error or aware of any endemic problems with CPVC? We've only used it in its listed capacity and the only problems we've had are from dry joints.
I've been contacted by a customer who is concerned about CPVC pipe failure. A note was mentioned about its use or non use in Florida.
Has there been a rash of CPVC failures in the US?
I've searched the interwebs and can only find websites offering expert witnesses regarding plastic failure. I've looked for NFPA or another official resource and can't find anything addressing it. I'm none too sure a problem exists.
Has anyone here experience with CPVC failure not caused as an installation error or aware of any endemic problems with CPVC? We've only used it in its listed capacity and the only problems we've had are from dry joints.





RE: CPVC pipe failures
have not heard any other rumors
RE: CPVC pipe failures
HELLO! Anybody out there? I have not a claim what so ever in many years and you dropping me.
RE: CPVC pipe failures
RE: CPVC pipe failures
RE: CPVC pipe failures
For polymers the yield stresses are much lower, ...so that a ~260 um. "
[for us English-type folks I calculate 260 micrometers of course = 0.000260 m = 0.000260x39.37 in/m = 0.010, or only ten thousandths of an inch]. When such pipes blow up, they can also do so in very sharp edged fragments (aka' "shrapnel", I have heard unlike metallic shrapnel harder to see in conventional body or other x-rays), making it not surprising that this a material preferred by some for pipe bombs. There have also been many workers and others standing by hurt and even killed around the world in ignition/explosions of solvent vapors from inside solvent cement pipes etc. (even if their babies have not been "born necked" in the past from breathing the stuff!) When it eventually burns in a fire, there are additionally some quite toxic nasties put off (the site e.g. at http://www.houwire.com/lifeguard/ explains, "The hydrogen chlorine gas produced from burning PVC, for example, is similar to mustard gas.") At the same time, and in fashion non-obvious to many, plastic pipe it is being discovered is reportedly/apparently adversely affected by many common/prevalent environmental effects and agents in the constructed environments that have not historically been a problem, or as big a problem, with stronger pipes (e.g. see http
Otherwise, don't know about a "rash" of problems specific to cpvc, but with a quick internet search and a few key words I believe you will probably find quite a few e.g. the following I accessed today:
From http
Canada March 1991
The Saskatchewan Ministry of Labor Relations and Workplace Safety at http://www.lrws.gov.sk.ca/plumbers-pvc-pipe-glue (accessed this day) reports, it appears with regard to plumbers exposure, "There have been some cases of liver and kidney damage. The glues and primers used on PVC pipes contain 20 to 90 percent THF."
Rio Rancho, New Mexico, November 20, 1993
Per report at http://www.ci.rio-rancho.nm.us/index.aspx?NID=459 , there was a "Multi-casualty incident. During a welding operation at Intel Corporation, flammable fumes in a plastic pipe ignited and exploded; 13 injured."
Hanford, WA 1995
The report at http://w
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania April 22, 1997
Per the report at http://w
Stanford University, CA October 12, 2004
Per accounts at http://w
Daytona Beach, FL Bethune Point WWTP January 11, 2006
Per "Final Report" of disaster from the U.S. CHEMICAL SAFETY AND HAZARD INVESTIGATION BOARD accessible at http://w
Shanks Ville/Berlin, Pennsylvania ~April 2009
The Daily American newspaper reported an accident involving pvc piping as follows, "Glue vapors ignited by a nearby welder likely caused the explosion that injured four people..." and, "...pieces of pipe lodged into the men causing significant injury."
U.S. MSHA Hazard Report July, 2009
htt
Miami, FL September 8, 2009
Per similar account reported at http:/
There have probably been a great many more that for obvious reasons have not necessarily been publicized. I have also not included a great many other reports I've noticed specific to other sorts of characteristic hazard incidents like permeation and leaching of toxics into potable water (that I suspect may not be your current application).
I hope this helps.
RE: CPVC pipe failures
I believe you should mention your connection to the iron industry when posting these sorts of things.
RE: CPVC pipe failures
RE: CPVC pipe failures
The scope of my search is only fire sprinkler systems and only CPVC pipe failures in the US. There doesn't seem much out there documenting fire sprinkler cases where CPVC has failed other than websites offering expert witnesses i.e. lawyers.
I would gather from the evidence combining steel pipe treated with anti-microbial films with CPVC might not be such a good idea.
RE: CPVC pipe failures
have to check with the cvpc maker to see if there are nay restrictions
RE: CPVC pipe failures
jgailla, all of "these things" I first replied with are not my writings but instead matters of public, and I'm sure in some cases legal, record. These all also appear to be matters involving solvent-cemented/glued (http:
[Incidentally, I have noticed the manufacturer of some steel pipes with some kind of anti-microbial coating has apparently at least preliminarily disputed the claims that their product has caused failures of cpvc pipes at ht
RE: CPVC pipe failures
RE: CPVC pipe failures
Cvpc fire sprinkler systems have been in use over twenty years
About 95% of the time it is behind sheetrock
RE: CPVC pipe failures
The original question was about CPVC failures. It was not about the advocacy of plastic pipe for fire protection service. You do realize the amount of C900 PVC specified for private fire protection mains?
CDA, CPVC is always required to be protected by a thermal barrier, both for the protection of the pipe and the IBC/IMC flame spread and smoke production limits for plastic materials in buildings.
RE: CPVC pipe failures
Not true it can be run with no sheetrock in a very few instances, but normally a sprinkler head is required to protect the pipe
RE: CPVC pipe failures
Exposed Installations
Listed hangers are required for all exposed installations. Viking
Plastics BlazeMaster® CPVC fire sprinkler products are UL and
C-UL Listed for installation by a qualified installer or contractor
without protection (exposed) with the following restrictions:
• Standard Coverage Sprinklers
These installations shall be below a smooth, flat, horizontal
ceiling construction and require the use of Viking Plastics
approved one-step cement. The use of listed hangers for
thermoplastic sprinkler piping mounted directly to the ceiling
(or wall) is permitted. The resulting clearance between the
pipe and ceiling (or wall) resulting from the use of the listed
hanger is acceptable.
o Light Hazard Pendent Sprinklers
Listed quick response, 170 °F (77 °C) maximum
temperature rated, pendent sprinklers having deflectors
installed within 8 inches (203 mm) from the ceiling. The
maximum distance between sprinklers shall not exceed
15 feet (4.57 m). The piping shall be mounted directly to
the ceiling.
o Light Hazard Horizontal Sidewall Sprinklers
Listed quick response, 200 °F (93 °C) maximum
temperature rated, horizontal sidewall sprinklers having
deflectors installed within 12 inches (304 mm) from the
ceiling and within 6 inches (152 mm) from the sidewall.
The maximum distance between sprinklers shall not
exceed 14 feet (4.27 m). The piping shall be mounted
directly to the sidewall.
o Light Hazard Upright Sprinklers
Listed quick response, 155 °F (68 °C) maximum
temperature rated, upright sprinklers having deflectors
installed within 4 inches (101 mm) from the ceiling and a
maximum distance between sprinklers shall not exceed
15 feet (4.57 m). The maximum distance from the ceiling
to the centerline of the main run of pipe shall not to
exceed 7-1/2 inches (190 mm) and the distance from
the centerline of a sprinkler to the closest hanger shall
be 3 inches (76 mm).
- 16 -
• Light Hazard Extended Coverage Sprinklers
These installations shall be below a smooth, flat, horizontal
ceiling construction, are limited to unobstructed construction,
require the use of Schedule 80 fittings for sizes 1-1/2 inches
and greater, and require the use of Viking Plastics approved
one-step solvent cement. For pendent sprinkler installations,
the piping shall be mounted directly to the ceiling. For
horizontal sidewall sprinkler installations, the piping shall be
mounted directly to the sidewall. The use of listed surfacemount
hangers for thermoplastic sprinkler piping mounted
directly to the ceiling (or wall) is permitted. The resulting
clearance between the pipe and ceiling (or wall) resulting from
the use of the listed hanger is acceptable.
o Light Hazard Extended Coverage Pendent
Sprinklers
Listed light hazard, extended coverage, quick response,
155 °F (68 °C) maximum temperature rated, pendent
sprinklers having deflectors installed within 8 inches (203
mm) from the ceiling, a maximum distance between
sprinklers not to exceed 20 feet (6.09 m), and an
application density not less than 0.10 gpm/ft2 (4.08
mm/min).
o Light Hazard Extended Coverage Horizontal
Sidewall Sprinklers
Listed light hazard, extended coverage, quick response,
165 °F (74 °C) maximum temperature rated, horizontal
sidewall sprinklers having deflectors installed within 12
inches (304 mm) from the ceiling and within 6 inches (152
mm) from the sidewall, a maximum distance between
sprinklers not to exceed 18 feet (5.48 m), and an
For Exposed
Light Hazard Extended Coverage Pendent
Sprinklers
Listed light hazard, extended coverage, quick response,
155 °F (68 °C) maximum temperature rated, pendent
sprinklers having deflectors installed within 8 inches (203
mm) from the ceiling, a maximum distance between
sprinklers not to exceed 20 feet (6.09 m), and an
application density not less than 0.10 gpm/ft2 (4.08
mm/min).
o Light Hazard Extended Coverage Horizontal
Sidewall Sprinklers
Listed light hazard, extended coverage, quick response,
165 °F (74 °C) maximum temperature rated, horizontal
sidewall sprinklers having deflectors installed within 12
inches (304 mm) from the ceiling and within 6 inches (152
mm) from the sidewall, a maximum distance between
sprinklers not to exceed 18 feet (5.48 m), and an
For Exposed BlazeMaster® Applications
(Use in unfinished basements, system risers, and mechanical tees and crosses are not included in this table)
Sprinkler
Configuration
Type of
Sprinkler
Spacing
Between
Sprinklers (ft.)
Maximum
Deflector
Distance from
Ceiling (in.)
Maximum
Deflector
Distance from
Sidewall (in.)
Maximum
Sprinkler
Temp.
Rating (°F)
Application
Density
(gpm/sq. ft.)
Additional
Limitations
Extended Coverage Sprinklers
Pendent Light Hazard,
Quick Response
=20 8 n/a 155 0.10
=16 12 6 175 0.10
Horizontal
Sidewall
Light Hazard,
Quick Response
=18 12 6 165 0.10
Light Hazard,
Quick Response
Listed Reliable
Sprinkler (SIN
RA0362)
=24 12 6 155 flow rate of
40 gpm and
maximum
coverage area
of 24' x 14'
Residential Sprinklers
=15 per Sprinkler
Listing
n/a 170 per Sprinkler
Listing
Pendent Residential
=20 8 n/a 155 0.10
=14 per Sprinkler
Listing
per Sprinkler
Listing
200 per Sprinkler
Listing
Horizontal
Sidewall
Residential
=18 12 6 165 0.10
Standard Coverage Sprinklers
Pendent Quick Response =15 8 n/a 170 0.10
Horizontal
Sidewall
Quick Response =14 12 6 200 0.10
Upright Quick Response =15 4
in addition the
distance from
the ceiling to
centerline at
pipe must be a
maximum at
7 1/2 inches
155 0.10 a hanger must
be installed
3 inches from
the centerline
of the sprinkler
head
- 17 -
application density not less than 0.10 gpm/ft2 (4.08
mm/min).
Listed light hazard, extended coverage, quick-response, 175
°F (79 °C) maximum temperature rated, horizontal
sidewall sprinklers having deflectors installed within 12
inches (304 mm) from the ceiling and within 6 inches (152
mm) from the sidewall, a maximum distance between
sprinklers not to exceed 16 feet (4.87 m), and an
application density not less than 0.10 gpm/ft2 (4.08
mm/min).
Listed horizontal sidewall, light hazard, quick response
extended coverage sprinklers, 155 °F (68 °C) maximum
temperature rating, manufactured by Reliable Automatic
Sprinkler Co. Inc., SIN RA0362 having deflectors installed
within 12 inches (30 cm) from the ceiling and within 6
inches (15 cm) from the sidewall and a maximum distance
between sprinklers not to exceed 24 feet (7.31 m) with a
flow not less than 40 gal/min (152 L/min) per sprinkler.
• Residential
These installations shall be below a smooth, flat, horizontal
ceiling construction, are limited to the unobstructed
construction, require the use of Schedule 80 fittings for sizes
1-1/2 inches and greater, and require the use of Viking
Plastics approved one-step solvent cement. For pendent
sprinkler installations, the piping shall be mounted directly to
the ceiling. For horizontal sidewall sprinkler installations, the
piping shall be mounted directly to the sidewall. The use of
listed surface-mount hangers for thermoplastic sprinkler piping
mounted directly to the ceiling (or wall) is permitted. The
resulting clearance between the pipe and ceiling (or wall)
resulting from the use of the listed hanger is acceptable.
o Residential Pendent Sprinklers with maximum
lateral distance between sprinklers < 15 feet (4.57 m)
Listed residential pendent 170 °F (77 °C) maximum
temperature rated sprinklers with deflectors of sprinklers
installed in accordance with their listing and not
exceeding 8 inches (203 mm) from the ceiling. The
demand for the sprinklers shall be the minimum flow rates
indicated in the individual listings.
o Residential Pendent Sprinklers with lateral
distance between sprinklers > 15 feet (4.57 m) but <
20 feet (6.09 m)
Listed residential pendent 155 °F (68 °C) maximum
temperature rated sprinklers with deflectors of sprinklers
installed in accordance with their listing and not
exceeding 8 inches (203 mm) from the ceiling. The
demand for the sprinklers shall be the greater of either the
minimum flow rates indicated in the individual listing or
the calculated flow rate based on delivering a minimum of
- 18 -
0.10 gpm/sq ft over the design area in accordance with
the provisions of NFPA 13 section 8.5.2.1 (2002, 2007,
2010).
o Residential Horizontal Sidewall Sprinklers with
maximum lateral distance between sprinklers < 14
feet (4.26 m)
Listed residential horizontal sidewall 200 °F (93 °C)
maximum temperature rated sprinklers with deflectors of
sprinklers located in accordance with their listing. The
demand for the sprinklers shall be the minimum flow rates
indicated in the individual listings.
o Residential Horizontal Sidewall Sprinklers with
lateral distance between sprinklers > 14 feet (4.26 m)
but < 18 feet (5.48 m)
Listed residential horizontal sidewall 165 °F (74 °C)
maximum temperature rated sprinklers installed with
deflectors of sprinklers up to 12 inches (304 mm) down
from the ceiling and within 6 inches (152 mm) of the side
wall. The demand for the sprinklers shall be the greater of
either the minimum flow rates indicated in the individual
listing or the calculated flow rate based on delivering a
minimum of 0.10 gpm/sq ft over the design area in
accordance with the provisions of NFPA 13 section
8.5.2.1 (2002, 2007, 2010). The maximum sprinkler area
of coverage shall not exceed 18 feet by 18 feet.
Unfinished Basements
Viking Plastics BlazeMaster® CPVC fire sprinkler products are UL
and C-UL Listed for installation by a qualified installer or
contractor without protection (exposed) in unfinished basements
in accordance with NFPA 13D when subject to the following
additional limitations:
1. The ceiling shall be horizontal and constructed with nominal
2 inch x 10 inch solid wood joists on 16 inch (40.6 cm)
centers.
OR
The ceiling shall be horizontal and constructed with nominal
2 inch x 12 inch solid wood joists on 16 inch (40.6 cm)
centers. When installing Viking Plastics BlazeMaster® CPVC
products in conjunction with 2 inch x 12 inch solid wood
joists, the maximum system working pressure under flowing
conditions shall not exceed 100 psi (690 kPa) and the
maximum system working pressure under static (nonflowing)
conditions shall not exceed 175 psi (1207 kPa).
2. The distance from the floor to the bottom of the solid wood
joists shall be between 7 and 8 feet (2.14 and 2.43 m).
3. Listed residential pendent sprinklers with a maximum
temperature rating of 155°F (68°C) and a minimum K-factor
of 3.0 shall be used for this type of installation. The
maximum sprinkler spacing shall not exceed 12 feet (3.65
m). The system is to be designed based upon the Listed
flows for the sprinkler selected, except that the flow for a
single sprinkler or for multiple sprinklers flowing is to be not
less than 11 gal/min (41.64 liter/min) per sprinkler. The
sprinklers are to be installed with their deflectors a maximum
of 1-3/4 inch (4.4 cm) below the bottom of the solid wood
joists in anticipation of future installation of a finished ceiling.10/1/11
Viking Plastics
and for riser rooms:::
2. Viking Plastics BlazeMaster® CPVC products may be used as
system risers in accordance with NFPA 13D and 13R when
installed without protection (exposed). When installed
exposed, the following limitations shall apply:
(a) The riser shall be installed below a smooth, flat,
horizontal ceiling construction. A Listed residential
pendent sprinkler shall be installed with its deflector at the
distance from the ceiling specified in the sprinkler Listing.
OR
The riser shall be installed below a horizontal unfinished
basement ceiling (in accordance with NFPA 13D)
constructed with nominal 2 inch x 10 inch or nominal 2
inch x 12 inch exposed solid wood joists on 16 inch
(40.6 cm) centers. A Listed residential pendent sprinkler
shall be installed with its deflector a maximum of 1-3/4
inch (4.4 cm) below the bottom of the solid wood joist in
anticipation of future installation of a finished ceiling.
• When installing BlazeMaster® CPVC pipe and
fittings in conjunction with 2 inch x 12 inch solid
wood joists, the maximum system working pressure
under flowing conditions shall not exceed 100 psi
(690 kPa) and the maximum system working
pressure under static (non-flowing) conditions shall
not exceed 175 psi (1207 kPa).
b) A Listed residential pendent sprinkler having a
maximum temperature rating of 155°F (68°C) and a
minimum K-factor of 3.0 shall be installed at a
maximum horizontal distance of 12 inches (30 cm)
from the centerline of the riser. The system shall be
designed based upon the Listed flows for the sprinkler
selected, except that the flow for a single sprinkler or
for multiple sprinklers flowing shall not be less than 11
gal/min (41.64 liter/min) per sprinkler.
c) The riser shall be supported vertically within 2 feet (.6 m)
of the ceiling or bottom of the joist.
d) The minimum riser pipe diameter shall be 1 inch (25 mm)
and the maximum riser diameter shall be 2 inch (50 mm).
Schedule 80 fittings for riser sizes 1-1/2 inch (40 mm)
and larger shall be used.
e) The maximum distance between the wall(s) and the
outside surface of the riser pipe shall be 1-1/2 inch (40
mm).
f) All solvent cement joints shall be made with Viking
Plastics approved one-step solvent cement.
RE: CPVC pipe failures
RE: CPVC pipe failures
I constantly see contractors doing the wrong this on a daily basis. By the way. Next time I go to one of my local suppliers I will take pictures and post them here. CPVC shall never be stored outdoors. At least not unprotected. The problem is that contractors instead of filing a complaint against supplier they buy the product and install it as they bought it. HELLO! So who is wrong here.
I am telling you right now. We have two options.
1) Start filing complaints to protect our future
2) Loose general liability insurance once and for all because of others
You choose.
RE: CPVC pipe failures
RE: CPVC pipe failures
RE: CPVC pipe failures
I'm not sure it would have really made any practical difference in this particular case what kind of "plastic" it is/was, if you indeed know this was some other kind of "plastic", please let us know(and maybe DA or AG would also be interested?) Everyone have a good weekend.
RE: CPVC pipe failures
Not sure if I am following you
Cvpc has been approved in many settings for sprinkler use for years
If you are talking about the mansion fire where the ff died, it sounds like the pipe was physically damaged, maybe by something falling on it, pipe broke and put Wieght on the sheet rock ceiling causing the structure to fail
RE: CPVC pipe failures
RE: CPVC pipe failures
now that you said that you might be right, have not read the stuff in a long time, but believe it was in a non protected area, which is legal.
not sure if you read that the owner had a non code complying fireplace installed
RE: CPVC pipe failures
Prosecutors allege that Becker, a German national, built an 18-foot "fire trough" through the home despite being warned of the dangers it may cause. It was described as an oversize indoor fire pit. ...
They said the attic was equipped with plastic pipes for fire sprinklers. The fire melted the pipes, flooding the attic and filling the insulation with water. The weight of the insulation appears to have caused a large section of the ceiling to collapse, injuring Allen and five other firefighters, officials said.
once again cvpc pipe has been in use for many years in fire sprinkler systems