The materials cost of different steels
The materials cost of different steels
(OP)
I'm attempting to discover the materials cost for certain types of cutlery steels used in the manufacturing of hair cutting scissors.
Scissor prices can very considerably ($25-$1000),I would like to find out why.
When I look at the small percentages of each ingredient listed to make up a particular grade of steel, say,440C,then compare that to AISI type 314,they share a lot of the same ingredients,varied a little by their percentage amounts and the 314 has 19-22 % NI,where is it that the HUGE price difference come in for a scissor made from AISI 314 compared to the 440C, especially when you are talking about a tool weighing less than 2 oz.
Thanks for your help.
Szzorguy
Scissor prices can very considerably ($25-$1000),I would like to find out why.
When I look at the small percentages of each ingredient listed to make up a particular grade of steel, say,440C,then compare that to AISI type 314,they share a lot of the same ingredients,varied a little by their percentage amounts and the 314 has 19-22 % NI,where is it that the HUGE price difference come in for a scissor made from AISI 314 compared to the 440C, especially when you are talking about a tool weighing less than 2 oz.
Thanks for your help.
Szzorguy





RE: The materials cost of different steels
If you look a little closer, there is quite a big difference in the chemistry of 440C and 314. 440C is martensitic and 314 is austenitic, which means that unlike 314 cres, 440C can be hardened by heat treatment.
440C is commonly used for bearings, which means its quality is also more tightly controlled than 314 cres. That would likely account for some of the cost differences you see.
Hope that helps.
Terry
RE: The materials cost of different steels
The following document from AK Steel shows typical prices for mill quantities of various stainless steels.
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AK Steel does not manufacture rod/bar/wire products, so there is no information on 440C, but you can get an idea of what drives alloy cost. As tbuelna mentioned, additional processing is required to make bearing grade material like 440C, and this adds to the cost. However, even with vacuum melting and other costly processes, you cannot explain the difference between $25 and $1000. There will be many other factors that explain that difference such as the following:
country of manufacture
number of scissors manufactured (annually, monthly, per lot, etc.)
manufacturing process (hot forging, machining, grinding, etc.)
marketing and advertising
RE: The materials cost of different steels
rmw
PS: that isn't a smart aleck answer. If the price list is valid or if there is an index or something to get it to current prices, I'd be vitally interested in finding that out, or where something current can be found.
RE: The materials cost of different steels
It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.
RE: The materials cost of different steels
Usually manufacturing costs many time what the material is worth.
In cheap scissors they stamp the blades out. This is fast and low cost.
The best products are hot forged, machined, heat treated, and ground.
The ratio of material cost may be 1:5, but the ratio of processing costs may be 1:50.
My hunch is that $25 ones actually cost about $5 for material and manufacturing.
For really well made ones that total cost may be $100.
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Plymouth Tube
RE: The materials cost of different steels
RE: The materials cost of different steels
I don't know anything about the scissor market, but I'm surprised anybody would make a scissor out of 314, let alone pay a huge premium for one. 314 is designed for high temperature applications, hardly a requirement for cutting hair. I would expect such a soft material to make a poor scissor. Do they have exotic PVD surface treatments like DLC to give them some edge holding capability? That would add some processing cost but not a lot.
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RE: The materials cost of different steels
Another factor is the shutdown-cooldown/cleanout (of the original metal) -> startup-melting/mixing time/pouring time (of the new metal) -> shutdown-cooldown/cleanout (of the new metal) -> startup-melting/mixing time/pouring time (of the original metal)
The changeover from original metal to high-end metal and back is very, very high if your supplier needs to use one furnace. If not, then the second metal become even higher priced. The waste involved -in a continuous use furnace that is switched over from to the other and back - has to be charged to the higher-end product as well.
Add a few inspection and reject charges for the higher-end product? People costs go way up.
RE: The materials cost of different steels
AK Steel uses the same old price list as the starting point, and maintains a separate document with the latest surcharges. Here is their most recent (Feb 2012):
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RE: The materials cost of different steels
Most of the scissors I sell are made from 440C and they are forged,most come from Japan,and they wholesale for between $75-$200.
Also,many are said to be of Cobalt-Molybdenum stainless.The latest these days are advertised as being made from V10 alloy and or SUS314.These can wholesale between $200-$500.
When I see the price difference at the Wholesale level,I'm not sure if I'm being taken advantaged of or,do the material costs and machining really reflect this inflated cost.
Do these steels really differ in price that much and why?
Thanks,
Szrrguy
RE: The materials cost of different steels
That star was from me; Thanks.
rmw
RE: The materials cost of different steels
As the others noted, the difference in raw material cost is not likely what drives your particular part price, since there is not much material needed. Most of the part cost is likely processing.
Take a look at the attached data sheet from Latrobe Steel for their BG42 alloy, which is a specialty stainless steel for cutlery. It gives a good description of the numerous heat treatment processing steps needed to get the best properties from the material.
Hope that helps.
Terry
RE: The materials cost of different steels
I would suppose you could go to any reputable cutlery factory with a good quality management system in place and specify precisely what you want, including your own unique branding, steel type, etc, and save considerable money, if the volume warrants it.
There are enough high performance tool steels available as stock without having to go to the mill and have them run batch lot for you. It's not just tthe steels, it's the coatings that may be deposited on them, as well. Food for thought, just my 2 cents.
It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.
RE: The materials cost of different steels
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RE: The materials cost of different steels
In this case, since the scissors in question are forged (and at these prices one assumes low production volumes) then you are indeed paying a lot for the tooling and subsequent hand working to finish the scissor to the high level of ergonomic fit and cutting function.
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RE: The materials cost of different steels
At the local joint the burgers are hand formed and cooked the way I want them. The lettuce and tomato are fresh. The fries are hot and firm on the outside and soft on the inside. The soda comes in a bottomless glass.
Eating at McDonalds is fueling and they do a good job on cheap and fast.
On the other hand, take a hand formed, thick, juicy burger in a bun that was toasted on a grill. Add fresh, crisp vegetables. Add maybe a couple kinds of cheese; Cheddar for its richness and Swiss for a little tang. Fresh grilled, thick, premium bacon is also available. Include some hot french fries that have been out of the fryer for less than a minute. Garnish with some tangy, crispy, slightly bitey dill pickle chips and that is lunch.
The same thing goes on with scissors and other tools.
Thomas J. Walz
Carbide Processors, Inc.
www.carbideprocessors.com
Good engineering starts with a Grainger Catalog.
RE: The materials cost of different steels