Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
(OP)
I was just wondering how many people were taught drafting up to ansi standards during their undergrad curriculum? For my undergrad, i had half a semester on autocad. I'm just wondering because my drawings were not up to par (mostly cosmetic). Do most people know this coming out of college?





RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
http://www.siemens.com/plm
UG/NX Museum: http://www.plmworld.org/p/cm/ld/fid=209
To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
I'd guess few if any are taught drafting standards. In the 70's pretty much all curricula had a "drafting" or "graphical communication" course. We all had to purchase $100+ of drafting tools and spend time on the board. I remember wondering why I had to buy modelling clay, until I sculpted the clay into a prototype of a part we had to draw. This was done so in order to help me visualize the different views necessary to communicate that physical configuration on 2D paper. There was a little bit of effort to discuss standards, but it was mostly the mechanics of producing drawings.
Nowadays, most 3D CAD packages have automated the laborious task of providing views and dimensioning. I wonder however how many really know how to present sufficient views of parts. And to dimension and tolerance them to "standard practices". I know of one guy, and his "Industrial Management Degree" manager, who issue the most horrendous, embarrassing drawings to customers. I can imagine the customers saying "Whiskey Tango Frank?" when they see these official release drawings.
TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Virtuoso Robotics Engineering
www.bluetechnik.com
RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
So, short answer; No, I don't believe most engineers know this out of college.
RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
This applies to both content and presentation. If your drawing is cluttered or in disarray, it detracts from the effort f the reader to learn "the story of the part".
My education in drafting came primarily from the reading side. As a machinist, I made hundreds of parts from drawings that came from many different sources, with a full spectrum of drawing quality (weighted heavily on the "poor" end of the spectrum).
You don't get what you want. You get what you ask for.
RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
I think it's not that different today. We just hired an engineer straight out of university. He knows how to solid model but very little about creating drawings. We have a local technical college that has a curriculum much heavier in the practical aspects of drawing. I think the universities feel it's beneath the engineers to work on lowly drafting. Or maybe they think there isn't time in the curriculum to teach it. These days we only have one draftswomen and she only handles the routine production drawing changes. All the new design work drafting is handled by the design engineers. The quality varies.
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RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
Didn't know I was an old fogey. (Texas A&M, 1978, nulear engineering.) We had 2x semesters of manual drafting when I started in 1974 - required of every engineer, every disciple. It was all pencil though: no ink, no vellum. No 0.5 mm pencils either. You had to "roll" the pencil as you drew the line to wear the lead evenly at the point. in spring of 74, my physics teacher brought the first HP calculator into his classroom in the city. No money for me though - I had to use slide rules through my sophomore year (1975-76 school year.) My wife, chemical engineer, did the same drafting in her engineering design graphic classes in 1975, but she at least had a TI calculator (sines, cosines, logs, etc for the trig.) by that time.
And, of course, no AutoCAD or 3D CAD for anyone. For you youngsters, that was because PC's had not been invented yet. (Quit snickering.) H*ll, computer graphic SCREENS, MONITORS, or KEYBOARDS had not been installed yet. 80 character punchcards were the highest tech available to undergrads.
Am I "better" forhaving the drafting classes, rather than, perhaps, blindly handing off sketches to a draftsman in the CAD section that only he (or she) could change or produce or reproduce? Yes, but I've also been reading and interpreting drawings since 1974. And, on average, I have found 1-2 errors on every piece of paper I have handled since that time.
I have seen no improvement in the quality of drawings between 1940's and 50's - when everything was manually created, and often "artistically" interpreted when the item got too complex; and today's beautiful - but equally inaccurate - 3D rendered hidden line "CAD-perfect" modeled assemblies.
RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
I can't draw a straight line though, or a hole in isometric.
Designer of machine tools - user of modified screws
RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
I took engineering graphics back in the '70s, and my experience was much the same as everyone else, above. The training was superficial. I was exposed to the concepts, let's say.
You are not really telling us what is wrong with your drawings. When you prepare drawings and issue them, you need to ask how good they are. When you listen to the feedback, you will have an opportunity to improve your work.
Standards aside, good drafting is like good writing. It is will organized. You try to think like the end user. Information on one detail of the part, scattered around three E sized pages of the drawing is equivalent to a run-on sentence.
Consistent fonts and well thought out line-work make you look professional, and they make your drawing more clear.
RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
Learnt drafting on my first job by having my drawings blead over by one of the senior design engineers. Then got really good my first few months of this job where we had a dedicated checker that I learned a lot from - so much I got to do his job for a year or two when he was let go.
From what I've seen rarely if ever is drafting covered in great (or perhaps even adequate) detail these days. They may get a reasonable amount of time learning a specific CAD program but not much on dimensioning, tolerancing, applicable drawing standards...
I Don't think I've met any new grads from the US that had any handle on GD&T and only one from Germany who had a vague clue. Of course, that also goes for a bunch of folks with more experience than me.
Given the increasing rarity of true drafters in many places, this is a bit of a gap.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
In the only college (board) drafting course that I took, the instructor told me that I didn't need to worry about a grade after seeing what I knew.
My work experience is where I actually learned how to draw to the standards, especially those onery checkers who just couldn't let a print go without some red on it. They were my real teachers.
As to thinking of today's drawings as "beautiful", I must disagree; even with minor mistakes and graphite smudging, I personally find much more integrity in a board drawing.
"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - Robert Hunter
RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
In the meanwhile, 'descriptive geometry' was done away with and 'technical drawing' was transmuted into 'computer assisted illustration' or something like that- result being such that I've heard several reports of graduates of 'new and improved' curriculum being unable not only to produce technical drawings but even unable to interpret (i.e. read or understand) them! Such is the way of progress. (I'm not saying I'm an expert in the field- but at least I was given the chance to learn the basics).
RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
Some years ago, I was working as a consultant at a certain southern university. I had a bunch of 3rd year aeronautical engineering students working with me, I quickly noticed that most of these guys were having a hard time reading drawings. The dean of the faculty had an office nearby, so I asked him how much time these students spent in drafting classes. His answer 3 weeks, when I pressed him on this, he said that was all the time in the course they could afford, and that the students were welcome to do more on their own time.
B.E.
The good engineer does not need to memorize every formula; he just needs to know where he can find them when he needs them. Old professor
RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
My drafting skills are decent, but could use improvement. Sadly, they're well above a lot of what I see from many other engineers.
I don't think I'll see one again, but I definitely miss having a full time checking department. That's who I really learned a lot of my drafting from.
RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
I also agree with Tick. Knowing how it will be machined helps more than any text can.
Fe (IronX32)
RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
Fe (IronX32)
RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
I moved into a drawing office from the shop floor.
Having had 4 years of technical drawing in college and 8 years of using and reading drawings on the shop floor, I thought I knew it all.
Boy was I in for a surprise. I was paired up with a checker whose first words were, " you already know how to read a drawing, now we are going to teach you how to write one.", I was handed a copy of BS308 and told not to come up for air until I had learned it by heart.
I then got introduced to the joys of red pencil, and the eraser frame, and later the electric eraser. I also got told to use a lettering stencil for now, and to practice my lettering until the checker thought it was adequate for the office.
It took about 3 months for the sea of red pencil to drop to a few occasional splashes, and the office to let me dispense with the lettering stencil.
B.E.
The good engineer does not need to memorize every formula; he just needs to know where he can find them when he needs them. Old professor
RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
Technically, the glass is always full.
RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
Anyway, I made the corrections and my co-worker signed off. Thanks again for the replies
RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Engineering Software
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
http://www.siemens.com/plm
UG/NX Museum: http://www.plmworld.org/p/cm/ld/fid=209
To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
If your CAD course was like mine all it did was teach you how to use the program ...NOT how to drafting to any standards or any discipline. AND thinking you're a "qualified" drafter and having the training is a BIG mistake. Normally engineers who play with AutoCAD cause more problems then they do generate a finished drawing. PLUS why would any company want to pay and engineer, engineer wages ...doing drafting work, when they can get a qualified drafter to do the work at half the wage of an engineer?
RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
Because If the engineer CAN produce a decent readable drawing, that is one step eliminated.
B.E.
The good engineer does not need to memorize every formula; he just needs to know where he can find them when he needs them. Old professor
RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
Technically, the glass is always full.
RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
" " plus engineers are so good today, we don't even need to bother with checking it. ""
Remember the error is always in the piece that you KNOW is correct.
B.E.
The good engineer does not need to memorize every formula; he just needs to know where he can find them when he needs them. Old professor
RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
Another thing CAD drafters seem to lack today is the ability to hand sketch properly and I see this in these posts when sketches are submitted. As a CAD instructor a few years ago, I always had my students submit hand sketches as extra assignment.
RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
11echo (Petroleum) ...Because If the engineer CAN produce a decent readable drawing, that is one step eliminated.
SO how many years of schooling have you had on drafting to produce this "readable dwg."??! I've been in this business over 30+ yr.s the ONLY engineers I've seen that can generate a "readable dwg." are draftsmen/designers that have moved into an engineering positions!
An engineer needs to multi-task on projects, and just focusing in on drafting is NOT an efficient/cost effective use of his time. This is WHY there is a design/drafting dept., this system has been around alot of years, and thinking you can "short-cut" the system and generate a better product is wishfully thinking!
RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
Most of the young Engineers I work with are fairly CADD literate, some quite good, but engineers here don't draft or solid model, CADD operators and 3D modelers do. I don't know how to do CADD (short of opening a drawing and turning layers on/off) or model, but I do direct others as to what they CADD or model for the drawings I want produced.
I find it interesting however, that some of the younger guys seem amazed when whip out a hand sketch some part or some concert. They must not teach that any more? Every so often, I have to 'hand draft' something complicated to scale to show the modelers it can be done.
rmw
RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
Technically, the glass is always full.
RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
rmw.... in your last para. "younger guys seem amazed when whip out a hand sketch some part or some concert." If you whip out a really good concert on them, they will just be all the confuseder. They'll come back to you the next day, scratching their head, and asking, how do you model sound in SolidWorks?
RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
rmw
RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
These were most of the corrections
- Putting sheet scale in title block when multiple scale views are present on the drawing. Does this always have to be there?
- measuring angles as 135 deg instead of 45 deg
- ballooning all parts in assembly drawing. Putting quantity next to balloon unless you only need 1 where you just put ref.
- lining up balloons in a straight line.
- underlining and centering main view notes.
- centerlines. I usually only put centerlines when I'm actually dimensioning the circle
- Typing "see detail ..." instead of "view detail ..." for your callout notes.
RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
I had your experiences back in the day. I remember my buddy's Dad who was the President of the Professional body for Engineering, Geophysics and Geology telling me never to turn down an opportunity to work in a machine shop. The experience gained will be three to one, one year of machining is three years of engineering! I'll never forget that.
So as an Junior Engineer, and having gotten fired for being generally an idiot, I managed to get into a machine shop. It opened my eyes, and introduced me to the trades. I applied my engineering degree to the oilfield industry and generally, fell in love with machining. So I went to the trades school and took the necessary courses to become certified as a machinist. I just wanted to understand the technology and improve my drafting abilities, figure out how to to look at the overall picture: concept, design, drafting, manufacturing, release to the field. My buddy's Dad was absolutely correct.
I have enjoyed unhindered employment in the last twenty-five years. I opened my own company, then added a machine shop facility to get around out sourcing and hire good, compentant machining talent. Consulting to the oilfield and having primary companies calling on you is the result of a lot of hard work.
So I recommend whole heartedly to never, ever turn down an opportunity to work in a machine shop. Keeping your eyes open and mouth shut, because there are more ways to solve a problem than just engineering and mathematics, is what I learned. Being able to converse with the trades, have an understanding of their wants and needs all will fall into place given due time.
Hang around the forums, listen to those with "white hair", and be open to the fact that maybe, just maybe we don't know it all. That would be a constructive step in the right direction.
Regards,
Cockroach
RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
You don't have to go as far as the roach. But, one day try to build something you engineer with your drawings. Or, try to build your colleagues design from his drawings. You will learn a lot about good portrayal of design etc.
Fe (IronX32)
RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
Your checker may disagree, but I once had a vendor compliment my drawings as "worthy of framing".
RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
¶ 4.23.2 states: "The scale, or scales, to which drawings are prepared shall be indicated on the drawing."
¶ 4.23.3 states: "...drawings not prepared to any scale, the word "NONE" shall be entered after "SCALE" in the space provided on the drawing format."
Each item in an assembly drawing needs one (but only one) hard callout.
"SEE DETAIL" is correct because both "views" and "details" can exist on a drawing, making the use of "VIEW DETAIL" less than clear and concise.
The rest of the comments seem to be more about company style than industry standards, and I would think should be marked in a different color than the hard corrections. As for the centerlines, ask the checker to explain at what number of instances do you stop drawing them, or does every such feature get one regardless. What do you do with a drawing of a perforated sheet?
Technically, the glass is always full.
RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
Yes, the scale should be there. The whole point of SolidWorks, far more so than on a drafting board is that you draw to scale. Most of your views should be the default scale.
I would have to see the view that got corrected. I find I have to think carefully about how I apply angles to drawings. There are a lot of wrong ways to do this, especially of you do not use GD&T to control the angled face.
Did you ask him why he prefers 135°?
An assembly drawing tells somebody how to put the thing together. They need the item balloons. The quantity is helpful too.
I would have to see the corrected view. In general, I agree with TheTick on this one. I position balloons and dimensions so that they are readable, and you can see clearly what they are attached to. Usually, this does not involve lining them up.
Again, I would have to see this. My main drawing view notes, entered with Solidworks, are above the titleblock, and left justified. I take advantage of the text formatting features and the automatic word wrap of the current versions.
Perhaps you are talking about the main view labels? I centre and use large font. I don't underline. This, often, is a case of someone trying to impose a consistent style on all the drawings -- good practise in my opinion.
I take it you are talking about centre-marks on the circles. I do this systematically if I am dimensioning the circle. I do it if I think it will enhance the clarity of the drawing. I don't do it if I think the view is too cluttered.
Typing "see detail" sounds to me like better English than "view detail". It is a niggling criticism and perhaps your manager is a little anal retentive. Then again, this is a good part of your career to get in the habit of doing things right.
RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
RE: Mechanical drafting for Mechanical Engineering undergrad?
There are a whole bunch of drawing conventions, most of them formalized in ASME stds that try to make sure everyone is 'on the same page. A lot of them relate to format, which some may say is less important (in some cases I might even agree with them) however, consistency can help make sure everyone is 'speaking the same language'.
However, some apparently 'format' points can actually impact functional tolerances etc.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?