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4130 overlay help

4130 overlay help

4130 overlay help

(OP)
Trying to adjust my variables trying to qualify a few procedures
4130 625 overlay base material 4130 hardness readings 233

welding variables
24 jls avg
625 stck
4 hrs PWHT
hardness came back high haz cam in as high as 319

trying to keep them between 220 and 250
Need assistance please  

RE: 4130 overlay help

Assistance? You provide no meaningful information.
 - 4 hrs PWHT at what temperature?????
 - preheat temperature ????
 - base metal thickness ????
 - what is 24 jls? Joules? Your initials?
 

RE: 4130 overlay help

(OP)
24 joules was the average heat input

4 Hrs pwht at 1150 1190 dictated by client

Pre heat was 400 inner pass never reached 600 average was 495

Base material was 1.25

Over lay material  consisted of 309/316 over lay
                   625

RE: 4130 overlay help

PWHT temperature was inadequate for your required base metal HAZ. You need 1250 deg F for this hardness range. Go back to your client and discuss it. My question is what was the original heat treatment condition of the 4130? Was it quenched and tempered?

RE: 4130 overlay help

24 joules per inch? Why so low?
How many layers?
Where does 309/316 come from? You indicated that the overlay was Alloy 625 (ENiCrMo-3) with the SMAW process.
 

RE: 4130 overlay help

(OP)
quenched 1625 2 hrs water
temper 1250

We have to comply with nace as well as API 6 A

Joules are dictated in their spec for a max heat input and it is 26 joules so I am very limited.

PWHT is dictated as well they define the upper limits as well as the lower limits so i am limited there as well

The haterial hardness was 235 before we started the welding.

We have to perform a short PWHT CYCLE 4hrs  as well as a LONG 16hrs it the short cycle right now just got results in and the readings in the HAZ are above the required limits

We have to qualify a stainless as well as a ENiCrMo-3 over lay  

RE: 4130 overlay help

Quote:

The haterial hardness was 235 before we started the welding.

So, let's think about this for a minute, you are using a 220-250 BHN range after welding for acceptance yet the original material was supplied at 235 BHN. This means your original 1150
deg F PWHT must be increased to as close to the original tempering temperature as possible to remain below 250 BHN. You have little choice.
 

RE: 4130 overlay help

(OP)
I was thinking that if i used a coupon that is around 220 and tempered welded the overlay I may be able to reach what they require does this soud feasible

 I am at a loss due to the constraints in their spec.I have met their hardness requirement before but  the PWHT was 1225 and they rejected the procedure  

RE: 4130 overlay help

Quote:

I was thinking that if i used a coupon that is around 220 and tempered welded the overlay I may be able to reach what they require does this soud feasible

What? I have no clue what you are asking. If you mean starting over with 4130 material at 220 BHN, and temper bead welding to achieve your 220-250 range, I doubt this will work. Why? I don't think you understand temper bead welding.  

PS I sure hope your weld procedure specifications and reports are not written with poor grammar and misspelled words.
 

RE: 4130 overlay help

(OP)
I  came here for assistance.I apologize for my typing and I also apologize for anything you might not understand,or any thing I may not be explainning to you properly.

I have welded 4130 on many occasions and never had the problems i am currently haveing, with the specifications I am trying to adhear to.

I am only asking for assistance not to be nit picked on every little thing I type.

I just wanted to see if any one had sudgestions.I am running out of options on how to achieve what they are wanting.Sorry to waste your time.

RE: 4130 overlay help

I was not trying to nit pick, I was only providing peer review. Go back and discuss this issue with your client. If you can present your situation by stating that you either need to use a higher tempering temperature for 4130 to start OR increase the PWHT temperature using the current material, they should understand. Good Luck.

RE: 4130 overlay help

Robie

Are you welding a ring groove or flat plate?

API-6A-NACE requires a 197-235 BHN hardness range for 4130 75k material. We used the following parameters for 316/625 overlay.

Preheat, 400 F Min, Interpass, 400 to 600 F max.
Preheat Maintenance, 400 F min, during welding.
PWHT, 1150 +/- 25 F. (this is a typical PWHT) PWHT temperature cannot exceed base metal tempering temperature.

If your welding a groove, I would recomend adding 1/8" material to your test plate. After welding and PWHT, face off 1/8" This will help prevent hardness issues in the HAZ. If your welding a plate, weld 1/8" higher, face off 1/8".

If you do a search for "Hydril ASME welding", you will find a paper called Engineering Material and Process Specification. Very good paper, should help with alot of your questions.

Petrotrim Services
www.petrotrim.com

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