Obligation to warn clients
Obligation to warn clients
(OP)
We have recently become aware - through publicly available articles in various trade magazines, and web articles - that counterfeiting of a commodity consumable product is becoming more common.
There are credible reports of incidents where the use of this counterfeit product outside of the US has resulted in the loss of life and damage to property.
To date there is no credible evidence that the distribution of the counterfeit product has reached the US market.
Our clients may use the commodity.
Within our firm there is a camp that feels strongly that we have a professional obligation to "warn" our clients (all in the US) about the threat posed by the counterfeit product.
Another camp says that these days anything is likely to be counterfeit, so buyer beware, and the clients all have full-time purchasing departments, so we have no obligation.
Debate!
There are credible reports of incidents where the use of this counterfeit product outside of the US has resulted in the loss of life and damage to property.
To date there is no credible evidence that the distribution of the counterfeit product has reached the US market.
Our clients may use the commodity.
Within our firm there is a camp that feels strongly that we have a professional obligation to "warn" our clients (all in the US) about the threat posed by the counterfeit product.
Another camp says that these days anything is likely to be counterfeit, so buyer beware, and the clients all have full-time purchasing departments, so we have no obligation.
Debate!





RE: Obligation to warn clients
Is there some feeling thatyour clients might be offended to be advised y yoru company of the dangers?
If so then it is all simply about how you do it.
For example, there are often articles published about all sorts of issues and with evidence to back them up. You say that this is the case here.
ALl you have to do is publish your own article introducing a relevance to your own business and publish it in an in house newsletter that is sent to clients, the warning is indirect but it is made and you know it will reach your clients.
To deliver a direct warning to clients may or may not be warranted. It may also be misinterpreted if it is isolated and unusually directed to them.
Also, to take a holier than thou approach might well be differently interpreted but to put out an article in a newsletter, even if a newsletter created specifically for that purpose, should raise nor problems.
And how many companies have issued newsletters as part of some new management initiative only to ever deliver one issue?.
So many companies these days issue in house newsletters and fill them with all sorts of articles of varying relevance that no one could object or be offended.
I don't thus see any dilemma.
It is just a matter of approach.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Obligation to warn clients
If anyone asks for your clarification or opinion, offer them nothing other than "...we wanted to make you aaware of the current issues being discussed..." and leave it at that.
Regards,
SNORGY.
RE: Obligation to warn clients
Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: Obligation to warn clients
He said basically the same thing as jmw but in two short sentences.
Regards
Pat
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RE: Obligation to warn clients
jmw made reference to a company newsletter. It never occurred to me...I have never worked for a company that published a newsletter, but quite a few do that very thing. If that is the case, then jmw's suggestion is indeed very good.
Otherwise, it would look...suspicious...if a company's inaugural newsletter was spawned by the controversy about which the first article was written.
Regards,
SNORGY.
RE: Obligation to warn clients
That caused a complete review of how hardware was spec'ed and generated new regulations concerning traceability ?
B.E.
The good engineer does not need to memorize every formula; he just needs to know where he can find them when he needs them. Old professor
RE: Obligation to warn clients
If not, then why now, and not any other previous time?
TTFN

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RE: Obligation to warn clients
Regards
Pat
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RE: Obligation to warn clients
It is usual to use group send which simply shows the recipients email at the top and not the rest of the recipients.
Also the email necessarily is single topic and leaves you in a difficult position of how your clients will respond.
Emails have a language all of their own and are one of the most easily misunderstood forms of communication.
Receiving such an email on just that one topic a client could easily ask "why are they sending this to me?"
It's why I favour a company newsletter. The article can be made informative, it can be a key feature and it could be made to relate to a number of other issues which have relevance such as the well known China Quality Fade problem along with all the usual bumf companies put in the newsletter such as the company dart's teams wondeful performance.
No possibility of misinterpretation.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Obligation to warn clients
Regards
Pat
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RE: Obligation to warn clients
There are any number of ways that it could be done.
Is there an obligation to do it?
RE: Obligation to warn clients
Are you in some way obligated to play sheriff?
IS there an advantage to your company?
Is this the responsibility of the clients to look after themselves?
Is there an industry group that has more ownership of this responsibility?
Do you know something not in the public domain?
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Obligation to warn clients
Engineers are supposed to protect the public (at least here they are).
Not warning the client about something that the engineer consciously knows is a risk that may negatively impact the client would be a conscious failure to protect the public.
Regards,
SNORGY.
RE: Obligation to warn clients
It appears against my original post but not against any subsequent posts. Is this unusual? I'm pretty sure the star appears against all posts normally.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Obligation to warn clients
RE: Obligation to warn clients
It's dangerous to cross the street while texting on your smart phone. Are engineers obligated to warn clients about that?
There is risk involved with flying. Are engineers obligated to warn clients about that?
Some people have serious allergic reactions to peanuts. Are engineers obligated to warn clients about that?
Where to draw the line?
These days pretty much everything could potentially be counterfeit.
Nuts and bolts and screws. Do we have an obligation to warn the client that every nut or bolt or screw they buy might be counterfeit?
RE: Obligation to warn clients
Even the Space Shuttles had to have hundreds(thousands) of fasteners replaced or re-approved due to this practice - at a cost of millions of dollars.
When we spec bolts - it always at least a Grade 5 or better and I strongly suggest they not be bought at your local big box store. Only God knows their heritage!!
RE: Obligation to warn clients
And while dissemination of information ought to be a good idea, it can potentially backfire, to wit, if you make a habit of warning your customers, and then fail to warn them about some particular thing, it's possible that someone will sue for that omission on the grounds that they were lulled into an expectation of being warned about these things. Thus, embedding of the warning inside a newsletter makes more sense to me.
TTFN

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RE: Obligation to warn clients
If there is an obligation, is it just to the companies own clients or to all similar organisations, clients or not, competitor's clients and even competitors? If you are going to argue that you have a professional responsibility to alert others to potential risks then it has to be a responsibility that is wider than ones own client base.
In a general interest case and the concern is more than with ones own clients, then the best course is surely to bring it to the attention of the trade association professional body etc. who will have a more significant distribution list.
The professional organisation can responsibly and without giving offence even issue a special directive to all its contacts.
This is something that an individual company cannot do and may carry more weight with potential victims.
Anything from a company is bound to be viewed as having some sort of commercial interest and be devalued to some extent.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Obligation to warn clients
Play the scenario out in your mind into a court of law, after someone has been hurt or killed.
"Did you know that there was this risk?"
"Yes."
"Did you tell anyone about it?"
"No."
"Why not?"
"I am under no obligation to do so. It's not my problem."
Legally correct, ethical or otherwise, I'd prefer to have a different honest answer.
Regards,
SNORGY.
RE: Obligation to warn clients
On the other hand, if there is no obligation because there are plenty of sources of such warnings on the web and in trade journals etc. then we are back to asking how we alert our clients and just our clients without giving offence or it being misinterpreted. This comes down to either a newsletter or maybe an email to a favoured client that does say "be warned" but says instead "Hey Bob, did you see these articles? what do you make of them?" i.e. you draw attention but not in a patronising or superior way.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Obligation to warn clients
Yes, that has come to my mind as well.
"Did you know that there was this risk?"
"Yes."
"Did you tell anyone about it?"
"No."
"Why not?"
"Because we do not provide the product, directly or indirectly to anyone. Nor do we provide equipment that uses the product. We have no contract to provide information regarding the purchase of spare parts or consumable materials to this client, nor have they ever sought such information from us."
RE: Obligation to warn clients
If there is reason to believe that the customers are likely to encounter the counterfeits, and that it is an area related to your field, I can see the point.
Otherwise, you just add to the general noise level.
RE: Obligation to warn clients
I aspire to something different. Sorry.
I think you find a proper way to advise the client, and then you advise the client.
Regards,
SNORGY.
RE: Obligation to warn clients
"Yes."
"Did you tell anyone about it?"
"No."
If you don't ever say anything about it, why would you even get asked, unless you volunteer information after the fact?
TTFN

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RE: Obligation to warn clients
1) I am not a lawyer and therefore not qualified to give legal advice in any jurisdiction.
2) This is on the WWW and no jurisdiction has an absolute majority of members here an a great number of jurisdictions are represented here.
I feel there is generally no legal requirement to be proactive in warning others of danger when you are not directly involved, except maybe any country that has Good Samaritan laws like France I think.
Surely even in America, you cannot be held accountable for not foreseeing every risk to every person and not warning them about every risk.
Surely you have a right to decide as to where you have enough expert knowledge to decide for yourself where enough risk lies within your field of expertise for you to selective action. Your expertise in this matter would also include your knowledge of the other parties potential exposure.
I believe in any jurisdiction with a legal system derived from the British system that common law uses a test of what a reasonable person might do in the circumstances. Surely it is unreasonable to expect one person or entity to warn every single person within the jurisdiction of every conceivable risk, even if not within their field of expertise. I mean come on. To expect that is just hysterical nonsense.
I believe there is a personal ethical obligation if not a professional ethical or legal obligation to warn others of danger where you have expert knowledge to indicate they in particular might be at risk.
Regards
Pat
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RE: Obligation to warn clients
That said - I WILL ALWAYS tell my customers of ANYTHING I might find questionable. Regardless!!
RE: Obligation to warn clients
I think you said in two short sentences what it took me several paragraphs to say.
Regards
Pat
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RE: Obligation to warn clients
I don't care who sues me or what happens to me later if I feel like I may have kept an airplane in the air, or a school from burning down.
Good on ya,
Goober Dave
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RE: Obligation to warn clients
I guess to buy a new Rolls-Royce.
See small picture.
RE: Obligation to warn clients
If so wouldn't a stock warning in the user manual or equivalent saying only to use genuine ACME parts or similar be appropriate?
Or is this really an altruistic, 'greater good' kind of deal? You found out there are fake Ticonderoga # 2 pencils around that can spontaneously combust and you want to tell your customers for their safety or something?
Either way, I'd think the company lawyer should have some input.
Heck, what if the 'counter fit' product manufacturers sue you for deformation or something.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Obligation to warn clients
Pretty simple!!!
And like the code of ethics for doctors - FIRST - DO NO HARM!!! I use that on my junior engineers all the time - because some of the paths they take could very well do that!!