PE Stamped Rebar Shops
PE Stamped Rebar Shops
(OP)
A contractor we work with has a project where the Gov't requires the steel reinforcing shop drawings to be prepared and stamped by a P.E. I have never seen such a requirement and it seems pointless (yes I know the Gov't requires all sorts of pointless things).
I am willing to review the shops and write/stamp a letter saying as much, but am not comfortable stamping reinforcing shop drawings saying they were prepared under my supervision (they were not). I am having trouble defining what stamping rebar shops would even really mean (liability and real world wise).
Has anyone else run into this?
I am willing to review the shops and write/stamp a letter saying as much, but am not comfortable stamping reinforcing shop drawings saying they were prepared under my supervision (they were not). I am having trouble defining what stamping rebar shops would even really mean (liability and real world wise).
Has anyone else run into this?






RE: PE Stamped Rebar Shops
Not sure about now, but in my first design office job, we often did reinforcing steel shop drawings, for our jobs and for jobs designed by others.
RE: PE Stamped Rebar Shops
BUT - bottom line - you are also now responsible for them!!
RE: PE Stamped Rebar Shops
You cannot - in most states - apply your seal and signature to an engineering document that you did not have direct supervision over. The use of a seal/signature in most states simply states that you were the engineer that prepared the sealed plans. That is all a seal does.
In this case, the government is asking for a "stamped by PE" set of shop drawings - which could possibly mean they want you to apply your standard shop drawing stamp to it - that you reviewed it for conformance and acceptability to the contract documents....not your PE seal/signature. You might check to see if this is the case.
If they insist that you seal/sign the shop drawings I would tell them that you cannot lawfully do so and explain why. Then you could write a signed/sealed letter stating that you have reviewed them, corrected any inconsistencies in the shop plans, and returned for fabrication.
All of the above here is consistent with AISC Code of Standard Practice (see section 4.4).
I would also balk at signing/sealing shop drawings because this not only is a feeble (and illegal) attempt to use my seal but also might imply that you are now responsible for the dimensional fit-up of the steel (which you are not per AISC COSP 4.4).
RE: PE Stamped Rebar Shops
I suppose my original post was more of an intellectual exercise as to why on earth would someone require rebar shop drawings to be stamped by a P.E.. To me it serves no purpose.
RE: PE Stamped Rebar Shops
The test is whether you have CONTROL over the content of the drawings, not who prepares the drawings. If you have complete review and revision capability on the drawings, then you have established your "responsible charge" criteria.
RE: PE Stamped Rebar Shops
RE: PE Stamped Rebar Shops
If you are to sign and seal them, you should review the design and make any changes you feel are necessary. If you are not given this option and/or the shop wants you to sign off as is, you should consider walking away from the job.
RE: PE Stamped Rebar Shops
RE: PE Stamped Rebar Shops
As I go through the NSPE definition of Responsible Charge
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I could say that stamping the rebar shops is eqivalent to stamping a blank sheet of paper. ie there are no engineering decision or actions being taken on either and all of the NSPEs requirements are therefore met. Of course a lot of CYA notes would be applied to the shops but in effect, our gov is handing you free money.
RE: PE Stamped Rebar Shops
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RE: PE Stamped Rebar Shops
RE: PE Stamped Rebar Shops
The main answer I have had to date is that you 'pick up any mistakes during your site inspection of the reo' - This is true, but I would prefer to pick up those missing bottom beam bars before they have tied the top slab reo (and I'm sure the steel fixers would prefer that too!)
Obviously engineer's inspections are still required to ensure the reo is laid in accordance with the shop drawings, but in my opinion reviewing the shop drawings is an extra step that reduces the risk of site errors.
RE: PE Stamped Rebar Shops
RE: PE Stamped Rebar Shops
It is not common practice in Australia to produce reinforcement shop drawings...they just work off schedules. I was surprised by this when I first came to Australia, but the schedulers and bar setters are skilled in this system, and it usually works. I don't think the need for on site inspection is changed, because errors can be made with either system.