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Ropeway engineering

Ropeway engineering

Ropeway engineering

(OP)
I have an interest in doing on-site inspections of ropeways (i.e., chairlifts at ski resorts). I think this would be fun. I currently work in aerospace with very large jets, and ropeways are signficantly different than airplanes in many respects.

How does one go about entering this field for this kind of work? And how would I go about soliciting work from ski resorts?

RE: Ropeway engineering

(OP)
Yes, I am a licensed PE. I've conducted a lot of inspections of other things (mainly buildings) as a PE, but never chairlifts.

I also hold a Masters of Science in Mechanical Engineering. Not a license, but good to have.

Cedar Bluff Engineering
http://cedarbluffengineering.webs.com

RE: Ropeway engineering

Can't imagine them doing this more than once a year, but each lift could take a few hours, possibly, so looking at about 2 weeks work.  

However, it's likely to done prior to actual ski season, so no free lift tickets would be my bet.  If that was what you're looking for, you might be better off volunteering for ski patrol.

TTFN

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RE: Ropeway engineering

(OP)
While I wouldn't want to turn down free lift tickets, I think that'd be rather unethical. (Besides, at the rates that PEs charge for consulting, we can afford to buy our own lift tickets!)

I just think ski lifts are cool. Actually, I think pretty much any people moving device is cool (space shuttle, airplanes, cars, trains, etc), and has a lot of interesting engineering goes into things that move people.

I'll keep my ears and eyes open. The right opportunity might pop up someday.

 

RE: Ropeway engineering

The detachable chair lifts are uber-cool, of course, if for no other reason than allowing you get onto the chair while it's moving VERY slowly, and once past the carousel, you zip along to the top, where another carousel detaches your chair and slows everything down again.

While I've not heard of any failures, these lifts do create additional wear/tear on the clamps that attach the chairs to the rope.  I'm also amazed at the amount of cold-working on the rope.  A rope made from copper would never be able to handle the repetition bending and unbending; we had a service loop for flex cable that work hardened and failed in less than 100000 cycles.  Of course, when you do the numbers, it comes out that even assuming a 100000-cycle limit, that's almost 10 years of life assuming 120 days of usage per year at 7 hrs/day.  So replacing the rope every 4 yrs or so would ensure no failures during operation.

TTFN

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RE: Ropeway engineering

Sounds like a lot of liability - too many people and too many moving parts.

On the other hand - somebody has to do it.

RE: Ropeway engineering

(OP)
Mike,

Absolutely it is a high liability work. And the added liability (while a pain for insurance purposes) is what fascinates me so much about transportation engineering in general - there is a lot of emphasis for safety, reliability, and inspectability.

IRStuff,

They have incidents a lot more often that a guy would think. Typically a wind gust comes up and detaches the chair when it's not supposed to be detached, or the wire rope falls off of the sheave. In my home state, they had a cable start to break apart and a gondola fell and fortuanate the backup cables held...in each of these cases professional engineers were hired to do an investigation and write a report as to the cause and recommended corrective action. Very interesting stuff.

(Plus, ski resorts are some of the most scenic places to spend time at, and on top of a tower your view is incredible.)

Cedar Bluff Engineering
http://cedarbluffengineering.webs.com

RE: Ropeway engineering

Photoengineer...these devices might be controlled by the respective state department that regulates amusement rides and devices.  Many states have specific requirements for inspection of amusement rides and devices.

Keep in mind this is a high liability exposure market.

RE: Ropeway engineering

But airplanes get inspected every time they fly - by the co-pilot or pilot.  Also, they have very strict maintenance schedules.  They are also engineered to death - in other words EVERY part is designed and redesigned and tested and retested.  And most critical systems have back up. Now you know why a new 787 Dreamliner costs almost $200 million!

When was the last time you heard of part failure bringing a passenger jet down - maybe TWA FL800 about 10 years ago....

But I just don't see this level of engineering or maintenance in a simple ski lift.

So, the liability might be high but like I said -- somebody has to  do it.  GO FOR IT.

On a lighter note:  The Saturn 5 rocket that took us to the moon - if 99.99% of all the parts were working correctly - that left over 1,000 that weren't!!!!!  And it was built by the lowest bidder!!!

Have fun skiing - it is FUN!!!

RE: Ropeway engineering

You could inspect parasailing cables in the off season...

Seriously, maybe there is a market here if you can show a premium reduction greater than your invoice, plus avoidance of all that pesky bad press when an accident happens.  Maybe contact Lloyds of London or similar to get some info on potential premium reductions when equipment is inspected by an expert.  Who would of course be you.

If you like to travel I could see this being a fantastic job.  Swing through the mountains for eight weeks, inspecting as you go, and write it all off.  Then do the same down in the Gulf.  

I think you may be a genius...

RE: Ropeway engineering

Skiing in Vermont last weekend, I was pondering the very same thing!  And some years back, I had a chance to review the maintenance and inspection procedures for a gondola type operation which carried the public.  What I found out was that these things are inspected daily mechanics who are competent but not necessarily engineers.  The inspectors have check lists of what to look for.  Anomolies, such as a few metal filings observed at a tower, are subsequently investigated by engineers.  Any major issues are brought up with the equipment manufacturer, which was a company in Switzerland.

Ski areas are huge major facilities with roads, bridges, snow making systems, streams, maybe some dams, buildings, sidewalk heating systems, etc. My guess is that they hire out much of the engineering work but have engineer types on staff to administer the work.

RE: Ropeway engineering

One time I was offered a job as an engineer (inspector) for Six Flags.  Sounded like a lot of fun at the time.  But I simply got scared and didn't want that level of responsibility.  Pay wasn't that great - but good.

But I do design buildings that house more than 300 people.  So what was the difference??  

I don't know - just felt I wouldn't have the control I needed.??

RE: Ropeway engineering

A friend of my wife's was the inspector for the Six Flags up here near D.C. where the girl lost her feet on the Superman(?) ride.  She got us season tickets the first year we were together... after going there twice, I told her never again was she to waste any money on purchasing me a ticket.  The place is filthy, the people are rude and/or have a completely "I couldn't care less" attitude, and the rides just look like their not maintained.

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

RE: Ropeway engineering

Quote:

what fascinates me so much about transportation engineering in general - there is a lot of emphasis for safety, reliability, and inspectability.

You'd like to think so wouldn't you.

Unfortunately it's not actually that way.

RE: Ropeway engineering

At darien lake a vet w/o legs was allowed on to a superman (I think) roller coaster. Very bad part was the lateral retention is a boss that stick forward between your legs if you have them. He did not survive the landing.

RE: Ropeway engineering

I guess I made a good decision!!

RE: Ropeway engineering

I had a project that involved designing the foundation for one of these towers.  Never again.  You learn really quickly how huge of a liability this area of work is.  

It's not an exact science and hard to prove you're right if something does go wrong... AND I learned that even if its built right but they dont maintain the system correctly and someone gets hurt, the PE is dragged into litigation.  


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44623674/ns/travel-news/t/hawaii-zip-line-accident-leaves-dead/#.Tw2W26VrM8A

http://adventureropegear.com/blog/?p=90

RE: Ropeway engineering

I guess I made a good decision!!

The guy w/o legs argued w/ the 18 y/o kid who wouldn't let him on till he eventually did. That'll stick with you for a few years at least.

RE: Ropeway engineering

Photoengineer...another problem you have to deal with is the expectations of the state or federal regulators.

Back in the early 1990's I developed the initial inspection protocol for amusement rides and devices for the state of Florida.  They then required certification of amusement ride and device inspectors.  I was one of the first 10 authorized to do that. Then the protocol had to mesh with state law...that's where the problem came in.  Someone in the legislature, with some poor engineering input, decided that each amusement ride had to be "tested or inspected for fatigue".  I explained that there was no visual, predictive test for fatigue and that only stress levels and stress repetitions with respect to materials could predict that and not even reliably so.  Deaf ears.

Bottom line...I did some of the transportable rides inspections but decided that the liability was too high for that and confined my inspections to the "permanent parks" rides at Disney, Universal and Busch parks, which I did for about 10 years.  

Have done failure investigations on a variety rides, both the transportable type and at permanent parks.  

RE: Ropeway engineering

And many states have NO inspection/verification laws other than the local building official who makes about $15.00 an hour and knows nothing about structures goes out and looks at it a couple of times while it is being built.  Then that is it!!

What about the "circus coming to town" with their rides.  Most of the operators are either crack heads or drunks.

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