Currently I am a NICET lvl 1 in water based fire protection. I am almost upon my 5th working year with design and plan to go for my lvl 2, and lvl 3 shortly this spring. Can anyone beyond the obvious  NFPA standard books recommend some reading material, or possibly online classes. I have only done 1 hand calc ever as I have been using Hypercalc (an 80's dos calc program, run through a Virtual machine on my Windows 7 machine) since day one. So a training in hand calcs would be great, I have tried to get our design leader here to train but he is not what I would call the "teacher type". Most of my studies so far have been with the following 2 books.

NFPA 13 Automatic Sprinkler Handbook
http://www.nfpa.org/catalog/product.asp?pid=13SET10&cookie%5Ftest=1

and

NFSA Layout, Detail, and Calculation of Fire Sprinkler Systems
http://www.amazon.com/Layout-Detailing-Calculation-Sprinkler-Systems/dp/B0028GB57G

Any help would be appreciated.

Thank you,
Jondoeiowa

Look up Robert Gagnon's book on fire sprinklers. It is the best I can recommend.

http://www.amazon.com/Design-Water-Based-Fire-Protection-Systems/dp/0827378831

13 will teach you all you need to know but Gagnon's book is a great primer.

Here's the book I used in college that was written by the professor:

http://www.emergencystuff.com/0879391715.html
 

@Jondoeiowa- I am literally in the same boat. I just passed Level I and will be taking level II in Feb. But need some help with the hand  calcs..we use HAAS. thanks for the post. very helpful
 

tony

Really one should be able to do calcs by hand first...then use a computer program!

Sprinklers aren't terribly complicated, first determine the area of the sprinkler using the SxL method,second figure flow and pressures based on hazard classification and sprinkler K factor, third calculate friction losses back to riser and take out losses for devices and elevation back to the residual hydrant. This is all for CMDA method, the CMSA is a bit different by specifying minimum pressures but not so different as to be completely foreign.

Your Hazen_Williams coefficients will be 120 for wet pipe and 100 for dry pipe. For a line, include the fitting losses for the tee or ell at the top of the riser nipple in the line and include the fitting losses for the tee in the riser nipple where it joins the main.

It took me a few years to figure out all this with the help of some senior technicians. If you have any specific questions I'll try my best to help you out.

All I can say is that I am very thankful that when I started in the industry, my boss at the time made me hand calc everything for the first 3-6 months (I can't remember exactly).  Then, I could go input it into the computer.  He figured if I didn't know what the computer was doing on the calcs, then I couldn't use it.

As NewtonFP stated, it is really a simple procedure for a tree system.  Just find starting flow and pressure, then go from the end head to the riser.  The examples in NFPA 13 are even pretty clear on how to do it.

Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC
www.mfpdesign.com
 

Really the best thing I can think of is put some care into tagging your drawings with nodes and adding notes to the calcs. Doing so makes reading the drawing and calcs so much easier. If the AHJ likes your drawings and can easily understand what you are doing he or she will probably like getting your drawings vs. some of the crayon jobs they have seen.

i.e. branchline 1, gridline 1, cross main, feed main, feed to auditorium etc. Be descriptive. Its frustrating to make sense of a straight jumble of nodes.

Also you can use excel to figure out fitting adjustments for sch. 10 pipe vs. the sch. 40 values listed in 13.

There are some old threads between sprinklerdesigner2 and myself regarding this topic. For most calcs, rounding to the nearest tenth of a pound or gpm is sufficient; there is no gain to getting to 1/1000th of a psi or gpm.

Look up the hardy cross method also. that will be a great exercise to understanding how grids work; also balancing pressures by hand will get some appreciation of the computer programs doing 200 passes in a few seconds!

TMack and Newt, Thanks for  the advice! I will be utilizing your suggestions.

tony

Just starting to look into NJ state certification for fire sprinkler. I need a Nicet level II. Reading other posts on this site and talking to other people I know I'm not the only confused one with this process.I have previously look into it but now things seem to have changed. It is also not the most customer friendly staff tot talk to. Was hoping someone who has been through it or going through it a step by step procedure. I was also willing to take a course previously before under going the nicet process.  

Just got finished with my Nicet 2, wasn't that bad as I thought with the new computer system. But I need to find a calc class before my lvl 3 as I said before I've very little hand calc experience.

Thanks,
Jon

Jondoeiowa:

Level 03 just requires a calc of a tree, I believe.  If that is the case, NFPA 13 is pretty clear on the methods.  It is rather simple.  Just a few formula and plug it in.  The loop and compound loop is a bit trickier.

Try setting up a very simple tree and doing the hand calc.  Then, put the same system into your calc program and see how close you get.  That should let you know where you are for your Level 3 test.

Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC
www.mfpdesign.com
 

sprink1

After 2003 in order to be certified in NJ you needed to have a Level II in Water Based Inspection and Testing and Successfully pass an specific 19 elements combined from Level I, Level II and Level III Layout.
Couple of years ago it changed to just having a Level II on Water Based Inspection and Testing and successfully passing level I of Layout.
This gives you the poser to design, install, repair, inspect and test all type of systems including some consider special hazards such as Foam, deluge, pre action, etc. Also it covers hydrants, undergrounds, fire lines, etc.
Keep in mind you still need a PE to stamp drawings for permits.

     

Jondoeiowa

I think the best way to approach this test is to:
1) read the standards everyday and afternoon
2) contact someone you know that understand hand calculations and give you some tutoring for a small fee
3) request an engineer to produce like questions from NICET just for practice or purchase NICET sample questions

This will save you some money and give you some confidence to ensure you are prepare for testing.

Thank you NJ1 and Travis.

I am looking into buying the sample tests for Calcs once I have practiced them a bit. We have one level 4 designer here in the company who I'm trying to work with to have my calcs checked. I found one online college course to train in calcs but it seems they don't cover much, I asked them to send me a course outline.

With 5 years down and moving onto my 6th and over 150 different projects completed (might seem a small number to you guys). I feel confident if I keep studying my books like I had for Lvl 2 I can pass my Lvl 3 in layout.

Calcs I feel overwhelmed. I really wish I had been forced from day one to do every other project by hand before putting it into the computer. It would have likely helped me understand them better. If I cannot convince our LVL 4 to train, would any of you be willing to for a fee possibly do a Go-2 type meeting online once a week for say a month to give some lessons?

Thank you,
Jon

You don't need to buy practice tests for calcs.  Just draw a simple tree.  Enter it into your calc program.  Follow the printout to see how it is doing it.  Then, do the calc yourself using the formula in NFPA 13.  Q=k*p^.5 gives you your flows or pressures.  Use the formula for friction loss in 13.  Go from there.

Many people get overwhelmed with tree calcs because they seem to think it is some high level math and crazy computation.  It is just a couple of simple formulas and that is all.  Try doing a tree as shown in NFPA 13 and then enter the same tree into your calc program.  See if you get close.  If you are way off, then come back here and we can try to help you.

Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC
www.mfpdesign.com
 

Thanks NJ1 for response. Will the NICET Certification enable me to get a NJ license to own a sprinkler company. Under  the impression I need NICET II for both sprinkler layout and inspection and testing

sprink1

Ever since the new requirements took place you will need to be certified in Level II inspection, testing and maintenance of water based based and successively pass level 1 layout. Game on after that.  

Is it true that when you pass your level 1 cbt on sprinkler layout the computer tell you that your passed?  

Has anyone taken the sprinkler layout level 1 cbt test?and is it true that when you meet the requirements the computer automatically display that you have pass the exam?

Jondoeiowa,
DID YOU OBTAIN YOUR LEVEL 1 SPRINKLER LAYOUT THROUGH CBT?

I obtained my level 1 and 2 through cbt and yes they let you know right after completion of test weather you passed or not. The receptionist hands you a print out before you leave stating pass or fail

tony

Even as a field technician, I didn't find lvl 1 or 2 difficult for layout and design in the computer testing. I am about to take the lvl 3 test in calcs and layout. I honestly would only think calcs would be difficult even for me. As someone in the design area for 5 years the code shouldn't be an issue for you, at least not in my opinion.