Dell Workstation having trouble with large assemblies
Dell Workstation having trouble with large assemblies
(OP)
Over at CSU Fullerton we have a Dell T5500 workstation that the FSAE team is using to design a formula car for competition. We are having issues with manipulating the top assembly of our car. The problem is that when we try to move parts as constrained by their mates, the system locks up and it takes several minutes to calculate a simple movement of an a-arm, for example. Suppressing everything except the parts we are moving solves the problem at the moment, but this machine SHOULD be capable of much more than we are getting out of it. The top assembly is divided into an organized system of sub-assemblies that are resolved as flexible, and we have tried settings such as large assembly mode and resolve to lightweight without much luck.
We have tried bringing down the number of cores from 24 to 12, which helped a great amount. This is also the only "large assembly" we have opened on this computer so there is nothing to compare it against to determine if it is the computer or the model itself.
we are running Solidworks 2011/12 educational version.
Computer Specs:
Dell Precision T5500
Intel Xeon CPU E6545 @ 2.40GHz 6 cores, 6 logical
54GB physical RAM
GeForce Quadro 5000 2.5GB with latest driver
Assembly Specs:
370 parts
65 sub-assemblies
max depth 4
25 top level components
93 top level mates
We have tried bringing down the number of cores from 24 to 12, which helped a great amount. This is also the only "large assembly" we have opened on this computer so there is nothing to compare it against to determine if it is the computer or the model itself.
we are running Solidworks 2011/12 educational version.
Computer Specs:
Dell Precision T5500
Intel Xeon CPU E6545 @ 2.40GHz 6 cores, 6 logical
54GB physical RAM
GeForce Quadro 5000 2.5GB with latest driver
Assembly Specs:
370 parts
65 sub-assemblies
max depth 4
25 top level components
93 top level mates






RE: Dell Workstation having trouble with large assemblies
Check out settings here to see if ok:
http
Chris
SolidWorks 10 SP5.0
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion
RE: Dell Workstation having trouble with large assemblies
That link seemed to pertain more to what to look for when buying a new machine rather than optimizing settings. I'm going to go ahead a say that a total of 24 cores, 54GB of physical RAM, and a $1700 video card designed for CAD software should make this computer extremely capable.
RE: Dell Workstation having trouble with large assemblies
While the Quadro series cards are suitable for 3D CAD, the GeForce series cards are not.
When opened separately, do all the sub-assys work correctly and quickly?
Are you also using Limit Mates? They can be problematic when combined with Flexible assys.
RE: Dell Workstation having trouble with large assemblies
This is the card we have:
http:/
The sub-assemblies work fine and the rebuild times are quick. We are also not using any limit mates, the majority of the mates are width and concentric.
We also ran a performance test and these were the scores:
CPU 138.5
Graphics 42.2
I/O 99.8
Render 37.8
RE: Dell Workstation having trouble with large assemblies
Throwing more computer hardware at the problem will not help.
Impossible to give solutions without being able to see and open your assembly and to view how you have constructed it.
Cheers,
Anna Wood
SW2011 SP5, Windows 7 x64
http://www.renderbay.com
http://www.solidmuse.com
http://www.phxswug.com
RE: Dell Workstation having trouble with large assemblies
-One A-Arm/Suspension/Upright/Wheel assembly for each corner of the car (a total of 4)
-Engine Assembly
-Pedal Assembly (not shown)
-Gearbox Assembly
-Body Panel assembly
-misc. parts including mounting brackets, the chassis, the seat, and the steering column.
None of the assemblies have more than 40 mates, and the mating scheme is simple. For the most part, a part is mated using a concentric mate, then either a coincident or width mate. the sub-assemblies have no problems opened on their own. I'm not shooting down the suggestion of the mating scheme being the problem, but the assembly is very "this definitely goes there, that definitely goes there," so i want save changing the mating structure for last.
To make it clear what i'm looking for: I'm searching for a magical setting in Solidworks, the NVIDIA control panel, BIOS, or somewhere in the depths of windows 7 that most people dont think of.
When we first got this computer, solidworks could barely handle a part. We learned that because we were running so many cores, solidworks could not decide which core to run its calculations on, and so we reduced the numbers of cores we had from 24 to 12 as recommended by a solidworks representative. POOF it worked. I'm hoping for a similar solution.
RE: Dell Workstation having trouble with large assemblies
Chris
SolidWorks 10 SP5.0
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion
RE: Dell Workstation having trouble with large assemblies
However, try setting the priority of one core (via the Task Manager) to the SLDWORKS.exe process.
RE: Dell Workstation having trouble with large assemblies
RE: Dell Workstation having trouble with large assemblies
Now to diagnosing the OPs problems.
Before you go too far, let's see just how fast your machine is. Google benchmark punch holder site:solidmuse.com download the punchholder benchmark, run it and post the results here.
93 top level mates is a bit on the high end.
There is a lot of swoopy stuff in the model.
SW has improved performance over the years by avoiding rebuilding of lower levels, however what you are doing forces SW into taking the time to update the flexible assemblies. The fact that it rebuilds without problem when much of the model is suppressed suggests mating scheme and including too much detail. The order of mates can heavily influence rebuild time.
You didn't mention if there is in-context modeling or heavy use of equations. Those can also affect performance. If there is a lot of incontext, just lock the references so they are not recalculated every time. Then you can go back and unlock them if changes need to be made.
When you rebuild the assembly, watch the status bar as it rebuilds for any steps that seem to hang. Fiddle with those components' order in the feature tree.
TOP
CSWP, BSSE
www.engtran.com www.niswug.org
www.linkedin.com/in/engineeringtransport
Phenom IIx6 1100T = 8GB = FX1400 = XP64SP2 = SW2009SP3
"Node news is good news."
RE: Dell Workstation having trouble with large assemblies
That's news to me and, I suspect, many others.
Since which version, and for which functions?
RE: Dell Workstation having trouble with large assemblies
The key line in Kelvin's quote from the Javelin website.
I suspect there several flexible assemblies involved with the OP's model.
Cheers,
Anna Wood
SW2011 SP5, Windows 7 x64
http://www.renderbay.com
http://www.solidmuse.com
http://www.phxswug.com
RE: Dell Workstation having trouble with large assemblies
I don't want to get off topic but I have built a couple machines in the last six months and benchmarked them using Anna's benchmark. One was AMD and one was Sandy Bridge (48s). What CBL's quote says is absolutely true. In solving the parametric relations SW is single threaded. That's just half the story because your quote is only talking about the involvement of the D-Cubed relation solver which is now the biggest bottleneck SW has. But, geometry solving does use multiple cores and the OP's assembly has swoopy stuff that exercises the geometry engine heavily. Drawings also use multiple cores. I really wish when people make these statements they actually try to confirm what they are saying.
The OP's comment that having 12 threads slow down the machine is also very understandable. It comes from bus contention on the CPU. Recent tests of multicore processors has shown that past four cores there is little speedup of servers.
I am running on an AMD motherboard that allows me to tweak all kinds of things. I can run on one to six cores, speed up and slow down the busses both on and off the cpu chip and generally zero in of bottlenecks.
At any rate, until the OP runs the benchmark we won't even know what his problem really is.
PS I can run the Punch Holder benchmark on a AMD Athlon XP3000 in 19s. I do this by reordering the feature tree and removing all relations. I can do this because I have a macro that exactly reproduces the model. Relations is a big hit. Without these optimizations that machine takes 600s. This just goes to show you that SW can be blazing fast if you shut down certain functionality and use some of the tools. Brains can still replace expensive hardware if used correctly.
PPS D Cubed's relation solver can't be avoided in an assembly unless components are position mated and fixed. This is not such a good practice.
TOP
CSWP, BSSE
www.engtran.com www.niswug.org
www.linkedin.com/in/engineeringtransport
Phenom IIx6 1100T = 8GB = FX1400 = XP64SP2 = SW2009SP3
"Node news is good news."
RE: Dell Workstation having trouble with large assemblies
Are you runnig Win7-64bit and SW 64bit code?
"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."
Ben Loosli
RE: Dell Workstation having trouble with large assemblies
From what I can see from other user's results, this seems a bit high, but i just could be having to much faith in the hardware in this computer
OS and SW are both 64 bit versions.
RE: Dell Workstation having trouble with large assemblies
TOP
CSWP, BSSE
www.engtran.com www.niswug.org
www.linkedin.com/in/engineeringtransport
Phenom IIx6 1100T = 8GB = FX1400 = XP64SP2 = SW2009SP3
"Node news is good news."
RE: Dell Workstation having trouble with large assemblies
Dell XPS 15":
Intel i5 2.30GHz (vs Intel Xeon E6545 @ 2.40GHz)
4GB RAM (vs 54GB physical RAM)
GeForce GT 525M 1GB (vs NVIDIA Quadro 5000)
Punch Holder test: 85.94s
I should mention the Laptop is running a licensed version of SW 2012, as opposed to the educational 2011 version on the workstation.
Also, because the workstation is a campus computer, the students that use it for modeling don't sign in as an administrator. Is it possible that the performance loss is due to not running SW as an administrator?
RE: Dell Workstation having trouble with large assemblies
I fully understand their thinking, it was just not conducive to instruction to have the software constantly losing the students work.
TOP
CSWP, BSSE
www.engtran.com www.niswug.org
www.linkedin.com/in/engineeringtransport
Phenom IIx6 1100T = 8GB = FX1400 = XP64SP2 = SW2009SP3
"Node news is good news."
RE: Dell Workstation having trouble with large assemblies
Jeff Mirisola, CSWP
Director of Engineering
M9 Defense
My Blog
RE: Dell Workstation having trouble with large assemblies
RE: Dell Workstation having trouble with large assemblies
At the time of the first post, the driver from the solidworks website was installed. Now the latest driver from NVIDIA is installed. (V 276.28)
We are using a Logitech mouse, but we apparently don't have any drivers installed for it. Going to try that out right now.
SW 2012 SP1
CSWA
RE: Dell Workstation having trouble with large assemblies
The command Insert -> Component -> Assembly from Selected Components
may be helpful in this undertaking.
Eric
RE: Dell Workstation having trouble with large assemblies
How many tasks does performance monitor say are running when you have SolidWorks shut down?
TOP
CSWP, BSSE
www.engtran.com www.niswug.org
www.linkedin.com/in/engineeringtransport
Phenom IIx6 1100T = 8GB = FX1400 = XP64SP2 = SW2009SP3
"Node news is good news."
RE: Dell Workstation having trouble with large assemblies
Along the same lines, however, the problem with making any part of this assembly rigid, is that parts on a car inherently move. Parts that don't need to move are already rigid. Is there a significant difference between mating everything in a top assembly, then making a sub assembly from selected components, as opposed to creating subassemblies first and dropping then into a top assembly?
Also, the school called a SW rep again, we are going to have a tech come look at the computer. Thank you guys for all of the help and suggestions so far.
SW 2012 SP1
CSWA
RE: Dell Workstation having trouble with large assemblies
If you have a group of parts (say, the tire, wheel and associated fasteners) that move together as a rigid body, then placing those elements together in a rigid subassembly allows SW to solve their mates separately and treat the result as a rigid body during the solution of the mates in higher level assemblies. This can result in a significant improvement in performance and stability.
Creating subassemblies from selected components will only be a benefit if you do not currently have groups of components which move together isolated into their own rigid subassemblies, and you want to create those subassemblies from your existing model. I generally create the subassemblies first and insert them into higher level assemblies. I use create from selected components to preserve existing mates when I am restructuring an assembly.
Eric