Lead Engineer has no PE
Lead Engineer has no PE
(OP)
Is it common that a boss guy having the title "Lead Engineer" has no PE license and directs the work of other PE's that do? Every lead in my company has no license. Makes me a little concerned about using my license to stamp drawings when my boss has no legal responsibility if something goes wrong. The projects we work on are in multiple states, currently NC and GA.





RE: Lead Engineer has no PE
RE: Lead Engineer has no PE
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
RE: Lead Engineer has no PE
Thanks,
John
RE: Lead Engineer has no PE
It is unprofessional and usurps the concept of professional engineering to use the title "engineer" when you are not one. The only exception, in my opinion, is for those in "exempt" professions in industry. The construction industry is not one of those.
Using the term "engineer" implies that you have a level of education and expertise that is more than the average Joe. To do so without such education and expertise is a fraudulent mischaracterization of your qualifications.
Some states are more stringent in restricting the use of the term "engineer", with or without the qualifiers of "licensed", "registered", or "professional". I applaud these states and would like to see all states adopt more stringent rules on the use of the term.
RE: Lead Engineer has no PE
Seems like we have had this discussion before...
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
RE: Lead Engineer has no PE
Dik
RE: Lead Engineer has no PE
Look up the laws on registration in your state. In most states, it is illegal to call yourself or identify yourself as an "engineer" unless you are licensed.
RE: Lead Engineer has no PE
The chief MUST be a licensed engineer and in the states where they practice. Also - in many states you need a COA which will ask who the "chief" is.
And anything you seal - you own!
RE: Lead Engineer has no PE
In my opinion, if you're at a design firm, and you're not a PE or EIT, you should not have the word "engineer" in your title. I've known lots of folks who were "project engineers" on a job site, though, who weren't licensed and I never thought twice about it.
Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East - http://www.campbellcivil.com
RE: Lead Engineer has no PE
RE: Lead Engineer has no PE
In general, by law all technical submittals are required to be sealed. Here is an example:
"Every licensed professional engineer shall have a reproducible seal or facsimile, which may be computer generated, the impression of which shall contain the name, the license number of the professional engineer, and the words "Licensed Professional Engineer of Illinois". A professional engineer shall seal all documents prepared by or under the direct supervision and control of the professional engineer. Any document that bears the name of a professional design firm, rather than bearing the name of the individual licensed professional engineer responsible for the document, shall be deemed an invalid seal. The individual licensee's written signature and date of signing, along with the date of license expiration, shall be placed adjacent to the seal. Computer generated signatures will not be permitted."
Note there is no exception for industrial work.
However, unless submittals are submitted to government agencies, there is no enforcement of the seal requirements.
Lastly, you can not call yourself an engineer unless you are licensed:
"(o) "Professional engineering practice" means the consultation on, conception, investigation, evaluation, planning, and design of, and selection of materials to be used in, administration of construction contracts for, or site observation of, an engineering system or facility, where such consultation, conception, investigation, evaluation, planning, design, selection, administration, or observation requires extensive knowledge of engineering laws, formulae, materials, practice, and construction methods. A person shall be construed to practice or offer to practice professional engineering, within the meaning and intent of this Act, who practices, or who, by verbal claim, sign, advertisement, letterhead, card, or any other way, is represented to be a professional engineer, or through the use of the initials "P.E." or the title "engineer" or any of its derivations or some other title implies licensure as a professional engineer, or holds himself out as able to perform any service which is recognized as professional engineering practice."
Thats why people call themselves Project Managers, Associates, or whatever. I guess these terms sound better whatever.
There is a definitely a need for engineers to self police their profession. Have you ever heard of a doctor or lawyer practicing without a license?
RE: Lead Engineer has no PE
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
RE: Lead Engineer has no PE
industrial work is clearly exempt, at least in some states as described in this state statute:
Title 32 - Professions and Occupations
Article 3 Regulatory Provisions
32-144. Exemptions and limitations
C. The requirements of this chapter shall not apply to work done by any communications common carrier or its affiliates or any public service corporation or manufacturing industry or by full-time employees of any of them, provided such work is in connection with or incidental to the products, systems or nonengineering services of such communications common carrier or its affiliates or public service corporation or manufacturing industry, and provided that the engineering service is not offered directly to the public.
If such plans are submitted to government agencies as you indicated, then they need to be sealed by a registrant.
RE: Lead Engineer has no PE
I understand what you are trying to say, but what you are referencing is "manufacturing" not industrial.
Work involving administration of construction contracts for, or site observation of, an engineering system or facility, for industrial purposes should be performed by a licensed engineer.
Sealed drawings are required for construction of an industrial facility like an automobile manufacturing plant. However, you correctly point out that you do not need to be an engineer to work in the automobile manufacturing plant.
RE: Lead Engineer has no PE
Regardless - look up the state code and FOLLOW it.
RE: Lead Engineer has no PE
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
RE: Lead Engineer has no PE
No $hit and I spend more time out of my chair than in it.....
That's how you become a "led" engineer
RE: Lead Engineer has no PE
Doesn't stop some people though, but they usually end up in court with a whole bunch of problems.
RE: Lead Engineer has no PE
professional liability insurance covers claims made against the company and it's employees. You and the "Lead Engineer" are both covered, regardless who stamped the plans or who is registered.
However, if a complaint were made to the Board of Technical Registration, they could issue a fine or some other discipline against you personally if the complaint was substantiated.
RE: Lead Engineer has no PE
Supposedly true here in the US - but there was a barber shop down the road that advertised "Hair Engineers". And IBM or maybe Microsoft got sued a few years back over the terms "computer engineer" or "systems engineer".
Never quite sure what became of that...