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Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?
39

Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

4
(OP)
   We are a packaging machine builder and are currently using AutoCad 14 (2D). We would like to move into a 3D software package and are looking at either "SolidWorks" or
"SolidEdge". However we have heard rumors that "SolidWorks" has problems with large part assemblies. Could this be a software issue or a hardware issue.
    I would greaty appreciate any responses from software users who are familiar with both softwares. And why they would choose one over the other.

Thank You.....DGP

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

Hi DGP, I know it's not one of the packages you mention but have you considered TurboCAD, check out the specs, log on to the forums and have a look at some of the galleries, http://www.turbocad.com/. As well, V7 is due to be released in the near future, it'll imprees you I'm sure...Mike

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

We use Cadkey which is designed for mechanical engineering.  We use it to design tool and die.  You can work in 2D or 3D.  It also has solid modeling.

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

I also have to agree with the CADKEY choice. I have used many 3d packages (IronCAD, Pro-E, AutoCAD, Cadkey). My opinion is that Cadkey was easy to learn, and very flexible.

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

We use SolidWorks for very large assemblies e.g. 200 parts upwards. The only problem we have is with speed, but this would appear to be more of a hardware problem than a software one. We find that SolidWorks 2000 is very stable. A

SolidWors is very easy to use because it has a Windows-like structure.

If you want any further information be sure to contact me.

Regards,

Brian Hurley

brihurley@eircom.net

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

Perhaps I've got this wrong but having used AutoCAD 14 I know that it has 3D ability,it's not the easiest to use but it is there. I think you should first make full use of the software you have at present before investing alot of money in a product which is not right for your company.

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

Seeing as you are already an AutoCAD user have you looked at Mechanical Desktop or Inventor, both AutoDesk products. The big advantage of Mechanical Desktop to you, would be the easy migration of your legacy data.

Regards

AndyM

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

11
I have done a considerable amount of research in this area.  This is what I have come up with.  There are 3 main contestants in the arena.  AutoCAD (Mech. Desktop, Inventor), SolidWorks, and Pro/E.  I have checked price and capablility of each system.  AutoCAD makes a nice package but they seem to be in some turmoil lately.  They have stated that they will be discontiuing the Mechanical Desktop product within two years, I have used Inventor and found that it lacks many of the features that you would expect it to have for $5000.  Pro/E is very expensive ($7000) and has a very long learning curve.  You need to use it for about 1000 hours before you can be considered proficient.  The interface is difficult to manipulate and the program has quite a few problems with it, although I will admit that Pro/E has the biggest Cult following out of any of them.  Once you figure out work arounds for the interface it is by far the most powerful system out there.  After using AutoCAD for 7 year, and Mechanical Desktop for 2.5 I bought SolidWorks.  SolidWorks ($3500) was cheaper for a new licence then the upgrade from ACAD 14 to Inventor.  It is by far one of the best systems out there.  Rumor has it that a few disgruntled employees of PTC (Pro/E) left the company and started SolidWorks, so there is almost the same functionality but the interface is much better.  I have used Cadkey, IDEAS, CADDS 5.X, Aries, SolidEdge, ACAD, Mechanical Desktop, Pro/E, and SolidWorks.  Cadkey, Aries, CADDS and IDEAS are dead, some of them may still be for sale but they do not own any significant portion of the design market.  ACAD/Mech Desktop lead the market now but they blundered with anouncing the discontinuation of Mech Desktop.  Inventor is not completely ready yet.  Another thing to remember is that almost every package out there can read/write an ACAD file.  I speak from experience, I am a Mechanical Design/ Automation Engineer by day and teach Computer Aided Design on a collegiate level at night at UMass.  Feel free to contact me if you have any questions.  
-tim@automationonline.com

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

I work with a small company and we are down to SolidWorks or Solid Edge.  I have spoken to engineers from both sides and it seems that the only difference that I am concerned with is that SolidWorks might not being able to manipulate large assemblies, i.e. >1000 pieces.  SolidEdge "seems" to have a slight edge in that area.  From a user point of view they are very similar other than the fact that Edge uses fewer commands/clicks to perform comperable functions.  On the side of SolidWorks is the "Gold Partners" they have established that run within Works.  

Without actually getting in both software packages and running them side-by-side for a time, which I don't think we have the time or the resources to expend right now, it seems that we could pick either one and be very happy.  Everyone we have talked to from both sides seem to be very pleased and feel they made the right decision.

Any thoughts or observations on the speed issue?

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

2
When we were investigating which package to buy, the feature that really stuck out was the fact that SolidWorks can be automated with VBA. I have already automated much of our product design through VB applications. This has turned 80 hour design projects into 4 hour projects. This not only significantly increased the throughput of the engineering department, but also reduced the amount of errors, not to mention the cost savings on each project. Even if complete automation is not your goal, it will give you the ability to create some useful tools.

Unfortunately, I am not sure how SolidWorks will handle very large assemblies.

Lastly, I do not think that any question, unless inappropriate or offensive, should be banded from these forums. Although the initial question could have rephrased slightly, the post is clearly an inquisition to personal experiences with these packages.

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

We have been using Solid Edge for several years.  Solid Edge is very stable as, well as easy to learn and use.  Our productivity has increased since we began using Solid Edge.

Good Luck

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

tclere -

My post was intended to be funny, not serious.  Please do not be offended by it.

DGP -

My experience has been with Pro/Engineer. I have used it since Release 18 and now I use 2000i2.  I find it extremely powerful, stable and able to handle very large assemblies (300+ parts).

This is not to say that others (SolidWorks, SolidEdge, etc.) are not adequate.  But someone asking this question must realize that everyone is going to recommend the package they are currently using.

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

OK, OK, I just register and it is my first post. I came to this web coz I want to find some information on Mechanical Desktop customization. In detail, I was asked to develop the mechanical desktop so I can make the 3D process automatically after the ORCAD output .MAX file. U got what I mean? Layout people finish layout out by using ORCAD. I will take adventage of his output----2d ACAD drawing Vs. footprint of components and their exact position.
I have no any experiences on Autodesk Inventor. But I use ACAD and Mechanical Desktop for quite a long time and actually I have done some ACAD customization. Now I work for a small company which has long history using ACAd. I can say, all engineering system is based on this software. We want to develop Mechanical Desktop  to make it work easier but it is hard. the root cause is that mechanical desktop is not a real 3D software at all. And now we are entering a 3D engineering time. the deadly point of Mechanical Deskpoints are it can't be editted fully and u can creat or take adventage of the relationship between parts. I am so sorry that I hate it so much but I have to used it even try to customize it at the  same time. Let me say, AutoDesk want to be perfect and cover everything, but unfortunately at this software, it deadly lost.

I also have experiences on Solidworks. I start to use it from Solidworks 97. It is powerful and easy-to-learn. 100% editable, really 3D from the core, sheetmetal function, pipes,easy to use the resources of ACAD....cons: surface function. less profile creating tools.

My experiences on SolidEdge is not so much . But I do use it. Comparing to Solidworks, it is a little more powerful on sheetmetal design. don't forget , it is a little bit more expensive than solidworks. not so much.

I tried to used Pro-E, but I gave up. Coz it is too hard to learn( even Pro-E 2000i) and the interface is so hostile....Pro-E is very very powerful----the reason is it has such a long history. there are so much manpower on it----but it is far from easy-to-learn and easy-to-use. I will say, Pro-E is too old . it's market will be covered by solidedge and solidworks in the next few years.

How to choose the 3D software which meet your business/design? If u don't have clear idea or if u didn't let us know clearly, how could we do any good for u?

Does anybody know where I can find some sources on Mechanical Desktop customization? Let me know pls.Haha, I hate it , but I have to be vs it. Coz----it is my job.

Finally, I am trying to convince my management to realize something.


----something wrong, I am a mechanical engineer!!!

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

good little forum for us MEs'.....taking a break from my Pro/E work and found this site while surfing.....ME background, software used: CadKey, TurboCad, AutoCad, SolidEdge, SolidWorks, MicroStation Plus, Pro/E, Think3......of course, most of these i only dabbled in and became fundamentally familiar with,......exception: AutoCad (14/2000), SolidEdge, and Pro/E.  Basicly, there are four levels or tiers......
1) CadKey and TurboCad......for the hobbyist/at home/student/small business very basic 2d (some 3d).
2) AutoCad, MicroStation Plus.....powerful, feature enriched 2d & 3d software; very popular (the 2D standard ??!!)
3) SolidWorks, SolidEdge, Think3......the new best of both worlds 2d & 3d, the now & upcomming future (my opinion).
4) Pro/E, SDRC (Ideas), Catia......true parametric 3D modeling software, very powerful and in most cases very expensive.
options (2) & (3) are the best (in my opinion) considering: a) costs, b) maintenance and renewals, c) standardization (market share, present & future), d)learning curve, e)current user share, f) compatability......
...........note there are other packages out there obviously and ultimately what one is familiar with may be all they need.......how much of your software's capability do you really utilize???

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

My Experience only includes 7 years of Pro/E.  It is a very powerful tool for large assemblies, and - when used properly - it can eliminate long regeneration time.

My suggestion would be to research the various sytems, and have reps from your two top picks come in to benchmark their respective sytems on an application you think will represent your needs.....besides it's fun to watch them sweat.... ;)

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

yes. we all know Pro-e is for large assembly. And the reality is now solidedge/solidworks are trying to fight for high-end market. In my own opinion, they are the future of 3d modeling software. by the way, they are true 3D parameter and relationship.........and 100% editable.

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

2
2 1/2 years ago I did an extensive evaluation of most of the 3D cad packages available at the time. I narrowed it down to and had demos of Mechanical Desktop, Pro E, SolidEdge and SolidWorks. After the demos I received working  copies of SolidEdge, Mechanical Desktop and SolidWorks. Pro E was to expensive, had a much longer learning curve and was really more than we needed.  I ruled out Mechanical desktop quickly. It was not intuitive or easy to use like SolidEdge and SolidWorks. After narrowing it down to SolidEdge and SolidWorks I made several small parts, assemblies and drawings. Both were easy to use and quick to learn however I had some stability problems with SolidEdge. These may not be a problem now. At the time SolidEdge was a little easier to use, fewer clicks etc. but I was not happy with the support I was receiving or answers to some of my questions. The typical  answer I got was “That feature will be in the next version.” At the time of my evaluation you could not move parts in an assembly.

We decided on SolidWorks and have been extremely happy. The service, training and support we have received  has been excellent. Given the fact that I saw the two products SolidEdge and SolidWorks as equals the support factor weighed in heavily. As far as SolidWorks not handling large assemblies we have not had a problem. While things may slow down there are all kinds of things you can do to bring them back up to speed.

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

A number of people have stated a long learning curve with pro/e.  I just recently learned it after being in the Navy for 4 years.  It seemed no harder to learn then Autocad R12 7-8 yrs ago.  I maybe spent 10 hrs on it..  Of course I am not totally proficient but can do solid models assemblies, drawings etc.

You need to pick a good company and just stay with them.  Changing costs a lot of money. Don't forget the data / drawing management side of it too.   

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

2
I have used I-DEAS, Solid Works, and AutoCAD R14 and AutoCAD light.

I do not like AutoCAD 14 because it just seems strange to me.  AutoCAD light and AutoCAD may be good for laying out 2D drawings of buildings, etc, but that is not my cup of tea.  I understand mechanical desktop is great.

I-DEAS is very powerful and can do FEA and many other things.  I-DEAS was hard for me to learn and without using it a lot I forget commands easily.  The help files are hard to decipher.  I would not recommend this if all you want to do is drawings and solid modeling.

Solid Works 98 was great when I used it.  It wasTHE BEST experience I have had with solid modeling and drafting software.  We ran it on NT and it did fine.  It did get slow when I made assemblies that included over 100 parts.   We bumped up the RAM on our computer and took care of a lot of the problem.  The help files are great, and the visual commands are intuitive.  I recommend Solid Works.  I don't know what the capabilities of it are for FEA.  Solid Works can easily create drawings directly from the solid models simply by dragging the part over into a drawing view.  The drawing is instantly created, hidden lines and dimensions included.  To change the drawing all you have to then do is go change the solid model and the drawing is instantly updated on that drawing and also on any related assemblies.  Neat stuff.  

Nathan Jarboe
NJ@asme.org

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

You can buy a Pro/E Foundation Seat for 5995 + 1500 per year maintenance. Add the Advanced Surface extension for 4995 + 650 per year maintenance and you have a truly powerful full featured solid modeling system. We have one seat just a Foundation and the other seat Foundation + Surface. I tried SolidWorks for about a week a year ago and wasn't able to figure much out. I was probably corrupted by the use of Pro/E for 9 years though.

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

We use AutoCAD R2000 for surface and solid modeling. We can generate .stl files and get model data from this package.
Easy to use, under $3,500 for this package.

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

Easy of Use and what the software actually does are two different issues and they seem to have been blurred together here... I find MS Notepad is easy to use, but it doesnt have the functionality of MS Word. People are discussing what they like to use, without regard to the task. Buy software that does the required tasks, and is upgradable, and has a decent support program in place. Eventually, you get used to using the applications...Anyone here remember being resistant to upgrading their O/S? You're used to it now arent you?

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

hello dgp,
well according to me the best software for any type of modelling as well as manufacturing operations is unigraphics, which i found nobody mentioned in all of above messages.i'm saying this not because i use it but have benchmarked it after using proe2000i2,visicamsurf5 and of course autocad.
i had the impression that modelling of proe is very strong but i was disappointed to see that the kind of work i've performed on UG is very hard to do  with ease on proe, coz proe is very parameteric and u can't proceed without setting them which gives u hard time. and its time that matter the most.
UG has very good surface modelling, solid modelling capabilities, assymbly modelling capabilities can be estimated that rail coach factory here in india is using ug and one can imagine the size of assymbly in rail coach. above all its manufacturing is wonderful.
i've been using the ug for modelling the scaled models of cars and u can imagine the complexity of surfaces.
so, one word for ug is NICE.

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

Hi guys,

This is a very complicated question.  I have used IDEAS, Pro/E, and some AutoCAD.  The best thing for you to do is to look at the market and the kind of product that you are in .  If you are receiving a lot of files from customers, try to find out what kind of software they are using in general and then narrow it down.   It can save you a lot of time from creating new model.  You can have the software company gives you a demo, do not make any quick decision (wait to review all of the one you have selected). If you are involved in 3D modeling and FEA simulation, you should look into Pro/E or IDEAS (they import pretty well in their own analysis software and others.  Do not take my word for it, but take it into consideration.

Arden J.
ardenj@hotmail.com   

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

hai all
 
solidworks is very easy to learn for beginners and also professionals compared to other softwares like pro_e and IDEAS, its advantage is windows based functionality and user friendly, so people can buy the solidworks software without fear.

from

kuls behalf of Ganesh babu

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

While that is true in most cases, you would not use a screwdriver to remove a nail. Analyzing your specific needs and weighing the benefits and limitations of the tools that are available is a necessity.

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

Would suggest you try Mechanical Desktop R5. Mechanical Desktop is an Autodesk product which may be found at www.autodesk.com. All the best.

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

I have experience with SolidWorks and Autodesk Inventor. I would highly recommend SolidWorks as the best choice for 3D as it is easy to use (intuitive), powerful, and nicely priced with good support.
In my opinion, Inventor is more cumbersome, and demands more powerful hardware (more ram and better video cards). I have only used Inventor for 6 weeks but some things do not work (Viewer) well, and steps that should be relatively easy take many more commands to complete.

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

DGP,
I work for a massive Global organisation in mechanical engineering. We currently use 'Helix Design System' (Dont even bother looking it up). The point i am putting across is, We are so annoyed with using this system we decided to change it, (cut a long story short) the company on a Global basis decided to change to another CAD system so we started to research systems. Bearing in mind we are thinking of investing in more than 10,000 licences worldwide, and all of those will require training and possibly a new PC.
Anyway now I think I have expressed how much cash we are going to spend on this, We looked at a lot of the abouve mentioned software there is only a few that we did not look at from the above list, and the one which we found to be the best all round was Solid Edge. We chose this because it was basically just as good as the competition (maybe missing a few features) and its so easy to use.
I seriously consider that you go to thier site and use the demo copy.
I have previously used AutoCAD R14&2000, Pro Eng, 'Helix' Ha! and Ideas. They all took quite a while to get used to but with Solid Edge I followed one of thier tutorials and then I was away, I found it very easy. Minimum input maximum output.

I hope this helps.
Regards,
Mark

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

I was lucky to draw on similar experience to the message left by mark20. ( I have used Autocad 9-14, Cadkey 7, Anvil 1000,  Euclid and SolidWorks 97-2001 ).The company that I used to work for ( very large world-wide custom automation designer/builder) also did a similar evaluation of many software and hardware combinations because their global investment was going to be significant and they already had a large archive of Autocad history. The bottom line was that they found SolidWorks to be the winner. Since then, I have been part of three other companys' implementations and continue to be impressed with the softwares capabilities.

As mentioned in other postings, SW slows down with large assemblies, but any of the packages slow down in relative terms. I work routinely with assemblies of several 100 and even multiple 1000's of parts ( complete assembly lines ) and found that although it was slower, it still was acceptable considering what you were asking the software to do ! Hardware is key; get all the horsepower you can get to run the software on ! The justification for this is simple. You run the software on a slow machine and use the Windows task manager to show how many hours a day your CPU is working on SW. We upgraded from PII 350Mhz to PIII 933Mhz and saw the CPU time drop by at least half. This meant in theory, we were spending less time waiting and more time designing. The payback time on new hardware iis relatively short and people running the latest hardware are more excited about what they are doing. They also feel that the company is investing in them.

Lastly, SW has been excellent in giving you new functionality with every release. Each major release has dozens of new functions or enhancements that ARE worth upgrading for. Even minor releases can be expected to show upgrades and any fixes for bugs that might have shown up. They are pro-active giving you extras before you think to ask for them !! (Autocad always felt like you were a Beta test site and that they would only fix stuff or add stuff if enough people complained).

Nothing is perfect but I love SW.

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

3
Mark20,

If your company is in the process of purchasing 10,00 seats of anything, it would be very wise to look a little deeper than just Solid Edge.  Form a superficial point of view, Solid Edge looks great.  However, speaking from experience, Solid Edge has a lot of problems (bugs) and shortcomings (lacks functionality).  Support is, and always has been slow to respond to customer requested enhancements, putting it far behind SolidWorks, Pro/E, and even Inventor.

If you have any say what so ever in your companies next CAD package, you better do your homework.  A few of the different VAR's have scheduled "Test Drives".  They are a great way to not only use the software, but also ask the AE's some tough questions.

Jim Smithie, Webmaster
http://www.midrangecad.com

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

I just want to state that having used SolidWorks, Unigraphics and I-Deas, and having formerly run a CAD lab at a college, that your best bet is SolidWorks. It is the easiest program to learn, and is stable. I presently am stuck with I-Deas, it is the most unstable Cad program I've ever used. If you want to translate to 3D SolidWorks I think it is your best bet. It's missing some high end surfacing techniques, but will work great for all but the most complex 3D geometry. It also translates between software very well.

Will Roberts
Yazaki-na

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

SOLIDWORKS


I have been using Solidworks for 6 Months now and have picked it up very quickly.  It allows me to do eveything that I want and need to do very quickly and easily, unlike autocad it is a very user friendly program which relies heavly on GUI rather than raw data

One of the major advantages it has is the free upgrades and add ons avaqilable which allows you to make the program as powerful and expensive as you like or if your on a tight budget just use the basic package

P.S. I don't work for Solidworks or any of its resellers I am a genuine user and the text that you have just taken time out to read wasn't a sales pitch but an honest opinion

THANK YOU



From ALL my friends

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

8+ year Pro/E user.  The current release is supposed to be windows based, tossing out the years of experience current users have built up but good news for new users.  Strong surface capabilities, modifications to parts are easy depending if you're the creator or not.  On the other hand, if I buy something new to use at home Solidworks is probably going to be it after struggling with Autocad 14 for awhile.

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

Anyone considering buying into a new 3D CAD package should look into Autodesk's Inventor.  I have used AutoCAD base solids, Mechanical Desktop, SolidWorks, Pro-Engineer, and a few other packages that are no longer supported by their programing companies (example: ComputerVision Personal Designer).  For mechanical engineers and designers that are looking into buying a new 3D parametric solids creation software, Inventor seems to blow them all away in terms of ease of model creation (My opinion).  AutoCAD is not really a fair comparision, it's a general CAD package, good for a lot of people, it's not specialized... Just remember that, I see alot of people above this comment that are complaining about it, by comparing it to software that is specialized in "Mechanical Solids creation".  For auguement sake, lets see you create a wiring or hydraulic schematic in PRO-E, SolidWorks, or maybe Solid Edge, tough to do huh?  Not a fair comparision.  My two cents.

KSU Mechanical Engineer

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

DGP-
We use AutoCAD R2000 for 2D and 3D Solids and Surface modeling.
We generate all our views from our model, and the editing features in R2000 for modeling are a great improvement.
I have worked at other companies  who use high end modeling packages, but the truth is alot of modeling can be completed using AutoCAD and mid range software packages.
The .stl files alone that AutoCAD started having in earleyer versions is wonderful for prototype.
Take a good look at what your using and see if you allready have the tool you need.
Let me know.
t.c.

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

Check out the latest version of Autodesk Inventor...  They are doing some awesome things with this piece of software.  Assemblies are the fastest of any of the mid-ranged packages.  Autodesk even found a way to show threads on a shaft without taking up gobs of space on your hard disk.  It's strickly a visualization method, what an awesome idea.
I'm not a Autodesk representative, I'm just amazed at what they are doing.

Food for Thought
mrm1018

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?


My two cents worth, i have been a Cadkey man for 6 years and not that long ago i bought Pro-E for myself to operate at home doing contract work and then bought Solidedge for at work the work choice was not mine. So far these two packages are awsome. I can tell you the extra cost of both packages compared to cadkey is not an issue once you get to use all the advantages these two packages offer. Infact staying with Cadkey was costing heaps in lost productive time. I really find it hard to belive the guys still talking up in praise of Inventor i think it is so far behind even the two i mentioned i would never consider it at all. There are plenty of good packages around other than the two i mentioned.  But the likes of Cadkey and inventor are so far behind its not funny. UG the owners of Solidegde are pouring heaps of innovations into Edge to let it fall behind and at the moment i find it a dream to use. My own Pro-E ....now thats a challenge but can see how in time that will be my choice i feel but at the moment Edge is a doddle to use effeciently. I design machines up around the 5k part size so there not small, in Cadkey terms thats around 38meg. It was way past the capability of cadkey to cope.
Cheers Steven........ hope this helps confuse the issue...lol

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

Hi,
I consider myself an Autocad expert, and use it for complex 3d assemblies and details alot.  It is very good if you know a few simple commands/techniques.  Don't be scared  out of it by people that don't know how to use it telling you autocad is no good for 3d, I've been using r14 3d for years now, and have done some real nice work, including even hoses/wiring!!  As far as large assemblies giving problems I figure that is the nature of the beast, no matter how powerful your software/hardware is, there will always be a complexity ceiling, just work smart.
Good luck!!
Jay Andrews

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

the debate rages.  my two cents.  i can't count the number of times i've had problems with autocad/mechanical desktop and comlex geometry.  i apologize to all those i am about to offend, but if you think that autodesk's products are capable of handling complex fillets and the like, then you are not trully dealing with complex geometry.  if all you are doing is simple shapes and you don't need the high expense/learning curve of the high end software packages, then yes autodesk is for you.  if you are doing anything in aerospace, you need the power.  yes i am biased.  i have run mechanical desktop (versions 3 and 4) for years.  the programs foundation is simply not designed for complexity.  the software started out as simply 2d and has been trying to catch up ever since.  i am currently running pro/e 2000i and i am pleased.  the biggest problems i have encountered have been with the transition from unix to windows.  when it comes to solid modeling, pro eats anything autodesk can throw at it.  if there is one advantage autodesk has, its user interface.  i'll be giving solidworks a test run soon and would like to try out catia and ug, so i can be a little more impartial.
p.s. how big can this thread get?

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

Hello,
 
  I have worked in 3D since AutoCAD 12 and I still think it is a joke.  Why do I think this, well the main reason is because AutoCAD is not PARAMETRIC. Having used Pro-E since v18 and more recently Solid Edge Origin, anything is better than AutoCAD.   
  For example, suppose you subtract a hole from a solid and now you want to change the size of that hole. In a PARAMETRIC solid modeling program you would simply, click on the hole and type in the new value. You can't do that in AutoCAD.  You either have to explode your solid, extrude the profile again, and subtract another hole with the new diameter or fill the hole you already made and subtract a new one from the base solid.
  For the same price of plain old autocad, you could buy the part and assembly modules of Solid Edge. If you're going to design complex machinery, don't waste you're time with inefficient tools.  Use Pro-E, Solidworks, Solid Edge, or even Inventor. I don't mention Mechanical Desktop because of the additional expense with little or no benefits.
  BTW, I'm a mechanical engineer working for a packaging machine corporation as well.

Steve

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

...revisited...
I totally agree that autocad is very weak on blends, no doubt about it.  As far as not being parametric I agree there too, but there are many ways around that through simple customization by a resourceful user.  I said by the way that I have made complex assemblies, not complex blends.  Huge difference.  My point was simply that Autocad IS DEFINITELY an effective and very useful tool for the able user on all but the most complex of parts.  

Jay Andrews

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

I keep used Auto-cad 2000, and solid edge.
These are the best software in 3D, complent together.
Thanks

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

AutoCad took a big leap foreward in 3D capability with the release of 2000+. For complex modeling the programmes designed for it are the best to look at Solidworks, Pro/Eng, Inventor etc. but you can do 90% of this work in Acad200+. For structural modeling AC2000+ with a little help from add on's such as Steel Stubs is all you will ever need. The good thing for end users is that a lot of healthy competition is driving the 3D developers to produce better and better products. However when the auditors come in you may find that only 2 or 3 of these products are left standing in a couple of years.

Peter.

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

I think AutoCad 2000 does an excellent job in 3D modeling.  For longtime designers like me, there is still no convincing argument to move to Solidworks.  I did like Pro/Eng capability wise, but ACAD still rules!

goosebump.

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

4
What kind of advancements have been made in AutoCAD 2000?  Can constraints and releationships be made between parts?  Can parts with similar features, such as a screw, be contained within a single file, so to change between the different screws, all one has to do is change to a different Configuration, in effect, creating a family of parts in one part file?  Can this family of parts be driven from an Excel (or what ever) spreadsheet?  Just for information sake, users of SoildWorks have had this functionality for as long as I've been using it, which happens to be when Acad 13 was released.  Yea, I had/have an axe to grind as a result of that basket case CAD package.

So far all I've really heard about Acad2K is how good it is.  How about some examples!?!?  Hey, I know!  Lets keep score.  Lets take everyones knowlege of each CAD package and lay it all out side-by-side and we'll see who's is biggest, sort of speak (no ESPN pun intended).

We can start with the ones that I've just posted:

1.  Mate releations between parts - (SW=Y)
2. Sketch/Profile/Feature Constraints between parts - (SW=Y)
3. Configurations/FOP's - (SW=Y)
4. External spreadsheet driven Configurations/FOP's - (SW=Y)

Obviously, this is a very short list.  There was a spreadsheet comparison between different packages awhile ago.  Does anyone remember ever seeing it, and where we might be able to get one now?

Don

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

This thread and the other "3D software for mechanical drawings" were past over by a friend of mine and here again are a few cents worth of opinion in term of CAD trend for the last 14 years.


I have used 2D AutoCAD back in 1987. Then MicroCADAM in 1991. I remmember back on those years I was just refering to a simple documentation to learn AutoCAD all by myself. And it take few days training for MicroCADAM.

Then come Pro/E ever since 1994 (Pro/E R14) where I struggle to learn 3D creation for 5 days. And continue struggling for years. And todays I must confess that Pro/E is the best 3D solution in term of rich of features/ functionality and stability. Back at the time of 1994 to around 1998, I would called Pro/E as the market leader with that kind of innovative 3D methodologies of modelling.

Intergraph with SolidEdge (and now UGS) was following Pro/E exactly for ages without much success until maybe recently. Solidwork is of no different except it is slightly easier to use with newer GUI. The same kind of marketing strategy with SE. But how true is this "easy to use" claim by the software vendors?

When I was evaluating softwares for my company in search for something to get my job done few months before, I came to know Inventor. I have handson with our company data for the three much "affordable" 3D solutions to see their ability to get my job done in the area of creating complex machinery.

Autodesk Inventor stand out to be the winner. There are many detail in the evaluation process but basically ease of use to get the job done is one of my criteria.

Inventor go into my nerve as an long timer in the industry for it innovative user interface. For one thing... Autodesk finally serious with 3D business and meet my 1st time good impression of my earlist experience with AutoCAD 2D back in 1987.
And since they own AutoCAD, it is natural that 100% compatibility to Inventor can be done by Autodesk. Inventor continue to inspire me with 3D modelling for its modern software design (I wouldn't said so for the next few years unless Autodesk continue with its innovation). I felt more
comfortable to invest with company that would be around the industry for ages instead of some that was bought over by others. Those 3D solutions that were bought over are not in full control of their software development. The owners of its higher end solution take control instead.

SO think about the above few facts before you invest.

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

Try IronCAD. I researched all of these packages about 8 months ago and nothing was even close.

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

First, UGS and SDRC were both purchased by EDS.  EDS, if you recall, was the 1980's brain child of H. Ross Perot and is very closely related to General Motors.  As a side note, it'll be interesting to see how Ford Mo. Co. responds to this seeing how they are/were using SDRC.  I say were, because I've heard that they have been having serious functionality and stability problems with SDRC, and rumor has it that they've gone back to using an older version of PDGS.  But any who...

The one statement that really bothers me is that Solid Edge and SolidWorks are virtually the same.  To that I'd have to say, on the surface maybe, but beyond that, not even close.  And much of the same can be said for Inventor.  But since I haven't seen Inventor before, I can't say for sure.  On the surface, both Solid Edge and SolidWorks use the Parasolid kernel, they both use an OpenGL graphics format, they both have similar GUI's, you can create solid models, assemblies, drafts, and sheet metal.  They'll both import and export a wide array of graphic formats.  And there are a few less significant similarities.  But that's where the similarities end.  Once using it, those fortunate enough to have experience using a CAD package with a feature rich environment, Pro/E, and yes, even SolidWorks by comparison, will want to jump off of a building because of the lack of features, and the choppy flow of many of Solid Edges' commands.  As for ease of use, you'll have to talk to someone that has Pro/E and SolidWorks (and even Solid Edge) experience.  I know a few if you want their names.  As for me, I greatly prefer SolidWorks of Solid Edge.  There are a few functions that Solid Edge does very well, and SolidWorks could learn from them.  However, in the majority of the cases, Solid Edge could learn a lot more from SolidWorks.  How do I know?  I use them both almost daily.

I'm sure that in every comparison and claim, you, me, and everyone out here, can find someone that can support their claims.  Such as, Inventor is the best because, or SolidWorks is the best because, or AutoCAD has made some great improvements and therefore, it's the best.  The only way anyone can make an unbiased decision for or against any one CAD package is to see, on paper or screen, the side-by-side differences of each packages.  And there are very few documents out like that.  Regardless of how biased you suspect the source may be, it isn't difficult to generate a list of the top 100 "things" that this package must be capable of performing (extrusions, revolves, parametric patterns, cavities, etc) and comparing that to your own companies experiences and function.  Ease of use can be a major judgment call and everyone will have a different impression for each package.  So that only leaves a features and functionality comparison.

All,

Solid Edge, SolidWorks, and Inventor (sorry if I missed a few) are all in what everyone has labeled the "midrange", mainly because of price, but for features and functionality, there are many differences.  And I think most everyone here will agree that these 3 packages stand out above the rest in this midrange.  However, some people think that there should be other packages grouped in here as well, namely AutoCAD (minus Mechanical Desktop).  As KSUME has so clearly indicated to me (not that I needed it), AutoCAD is not a parametric package.  True!  And generally speaking, AutoCAD has been reserved for 2D.  Having used AutoCAD myself since '88, I know that it is possible to do 3D, be it wireframe or solids.  BUT...  There is no way that AutoCAD should or even could be grouped into this "midrange" class with Solid Edge, SolidWorks, and Inventor, for many obvious reasons.

When someone asks, "what is the best 3D CAD package...", everyone assumes they mean "in the midrange".  Very few people answer with Catia, or UG because of the cost and complexity.  So when someone asks "...what is the best...", there needs to be some clarification.  So we should ask, "what do you want to design?".  And I'm sure someone here already has and I missed it.  But if it was asked, you sure can't tell by the range of answers that have been received to that first simple question that started this mess.  Here again, this is why a feature-for-feature list showing all of the CAD packages on the market would be a great tool.  That way everyone that has that same question, "...which is the best...", can answer it themselves without any outside influences, such as this thread has done.  Produce demos don't show enough.  In fact, they can be very miss leading depending on how they were created.  And that's true for every package out there.  Demos are a marketing tool, don't base your decision on them.

So regardless of how many years of experience us "users" have, we are all biased to some degree.  Fine.  So lets come up with a black and white document that compares these packages, and is based on the real functionality of each package, via our experience with each package.  I'd be more than willing to be the collection point for this information, and I'll even post it on my website for all to see.  I for one would like to see this data for myself just to see if I've pick the best package or not.  As it stands right now, I know I have, and that is SolidWorks.  So unless I see some data proving otherwise, I'm going to continue down this path.  I not looking to change my position away from SolidWorks, but if the data supports that SolidWorks isn't the best, then fine, I'll either adjust to fact that I'm not using the best or changes packages.  But I want to see for sure, which is the best 3D CAD package!

3DDon

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

I have been an engineer tech. professor at my local university for the past 25 years and have been teaching CAD/CAM for the last 18 years. I have seen the growth and demise of many CAD packages over the years. Back then there were not as many to choose from as there are today. The technology has always intrigued me. I have also been a training and implementation consultant for many large and small companies to establish their CAD/CAM environments. I have dealt and taught with low-cost, midrange, and high-end packages such as AutoCAD, HP ME10, CadKey, HP SolidDesigner, SolidWorks, SolidEdge, CATIA, CADra, Pro-E, UG, TopSolid, Ashler Vellum, Cimatron, MasterCam, SurfCam, TurboCAD and so on. When I taught my classes I knew which software needed more attention than others and I witnessed all the trials that my students had forgone to learn these packages.Anyway, I guess for lack of a better word some people would call me an expert. Each and every one of these packages offers great things and bad. If I had to choose for my own fictional company what would I choose? Well, if I were on a budget I would choose HP ME10 if all I wanted was 2D. Again, If I were on a small budget and wanted 3D I would choose SolidWorks for CAD and SurfCAM for CAM. If money were no object I would use for both CAD and CAM ...and I hate to burst everyone's bubble...but Unigraphics v17 is leap years beyond everyone else.

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

In response to TBB's posting of June 26, where he states that he would rather go with an established company (Autodesk) that will be around forever:

Many expert market analysts do NOT feel that Autodesk will be around for the long haul.  Things like "incompetent management" have been quoted.  Even my company's Autodesk Training Center feels that Autodesk's "we won't fix it until it starts costing us customers" attitude will be their downfall.  With regard to 3DDon's questions about ACAD 2k, NO, it does NOT have any of those features.  The thing crashes everytime we try to run various "adders" they sold us, and when we call tech, their answer is always the same - re-install ACAD!!

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

toyguy,

It sounds like AutoDesk is in the same general mode that Solid Edge is in.  The difference is that Solid Edge support tries to place blame on everything else except their program, to include the operator, the network, your hardware, etc.  I haven't been told to reload the software though.  That's a new one.

Don

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

Unlike some of you who are apparently frustrated with this thread, I have thoroughly enjoyed reading the various viewpoints.

However, back to (part of) the original question: "... we have heard rumors that "SolidWorks" has problems with large part assemblies. Could this be a software issue or a hardware issue."

I'm surprised that no one has brought up the "lightweight" (not fully “resolved”) component option capability available in SolidWorks assemblies.  First introduced in 98Plus, it continues to be enhanced.  Properly configured, it can significantly increase the speed (system response) when dealing with large assemblies.  It has limitations (for example, a component that is in the feature scope of an assembly feature cannot be loaded “lightweight”), but it certainly deserves mention…

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

Kenneth,

You're correct...  We should stay on topic.

Solid Edge has "Inactive" and "Active" parts, which is the same as SolidWorks' "Lightweight" and "Resolved" parts.  The Solid Edge version has not been around as long.  I think it was introduced with V6 or V7, about the time SW99 was comming to an end.

As for large assemblies, for a PC based CAD package, SolidWorks does quite well.  Solid Edge is getting better, but it still isn't to the same level that SolidWorks is.  Obviously, unless someone makes the same exact assembly in both SolidWorks and Solid Edge, there really isn't a good way to judge which is best.  However, having used both products with similar sized and complex assemblies in both, I can say without a doubt that SolidWorks handles assemblies better than Solid Edge.  I didn't say "large", because everyones idea of "large" is different.  In my case, both assemblies were of special machines with about 750 parts, which included all hardware, sheet metal, welded and machined parts.  Not all that big I guess.  But they were both on the same 500 Mhz P3 w/256 Meg RAM, using Solid Edge V9 and SolidWorks 2000.

Our company just received Solid Edge V10 this week, but we are waiting for the first couple of service packs to come out before we load it.  Reason being, Solid Edge doesn't include the last service of the previous release in the new release of software.  In other words, the first release of Solid Edge V10 is about 1-2 service packs behind Solid Edge V9 with the last service pack, which I think is SP9.  Just for information sake, the last Solid Edge service pack was 93.3 Meg!  And no, Solid Edge service packs do not add any functionality like SolidWorks service packs do.  Solid Edge service pack are only bug fixes, no product enhancements of anyknid.

Don

Jim Smithie, Webmaster
http://www.midrangecad.com

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

Our design group just completed an evaluation of SW (2001) and Inventor (r5), using weighted categories such as "Productivity", "Standard Features", "Ease of use/learning curve", "Step Compatibility", etc...

The hands down winner was Inventor, although many categories were "ties".  Some of the strengths of Inventor were:

-More intuitive user interface, with fewer dialog boxes and fewer mouse clicks.  Gesture based sketching, glass box, "expert" and "learning" modes, more consistent interface with (far) less clutter.
-Ability to handle large assemblies (SW requires that parts be marked as "lite" to just load the graphics, but you can't work on them in that mode, INV handles this in the background: all parts load graphically, but as the cursor goes over a part, it (transparently) begins to load the geometry of the part)
-Built in support for concurrent engineering (several users can work on a model at once), this is a shortcoming of SW.
-Better STEP file import: the colors and part names of the imported component were preserved, and the geometry was immediately useable.  SW required the use of "FeatureWorks" to "repair" the same model.
-Adaptivity: the SW guys had a contrived example showing how they could do the same things that Inventor does: this is true only to a very limited extent, explore this carefully in your own eval...

Everyone should do their own evaluation, as each product has particular strengths.  Don't let past experience with Mechanical Desktop cloud your judgement, Inventor is a completely different product, not a derivative.  The latest releases of Inventor have changed the Mid-Range Cad scene quite a bit, don't let comparisons of older versions (there is a website dedicated to comparing old versions) cloud your judgement either.

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

Hello,

   Has anyone here ever hear of the CAD program called Solid Concepts by Mecasoft?  This thing is really pretty good for $1300! It does just about everything the big three do except sheetmetal but it has a 3D CAM program instead.  This looks to be a very serious contender, but I what to find out more about this company. All I know is that they are based in France.
   Its not the slickest program I've worked with, but for the price, it may be hard to beat.  I would really appreciate some info on this program.  

Thanks,

Steve

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

Hi DGP,
I'm currently using Solidworks2001 along with Windows2000.
As an electronic packaging designer I sometimes have
complicated assemblies.
Solidworks2001 is much more advanced and easy to use than
Solidworks2000 and surely better than AutoCAD.
I recommend this software. The problem you mentioned is
mostly due to hardware problem.

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

We are a small to medium size company.  Three Mechanical Engineers and two designer/draftsman.  We have been using Cadkey since 1993 for designing analytical laboratory instruments.  When we purchased Cadkey, it had the most bang for the buck, and I have really enjoyed it's 3D capabilities.  Cadkey is also very easy to learn.  However, Cadkey currently does not have associativity between a part model and and an assembly model so we are constantly having to update 3D models in multiple places.  I understand that in the upcoming release of Cadkey 20 there is supposed to be an assembly modeling feature, but we have grown tired of being two or more steps behind everybody else.  We have been given the go ahead to search for a new MCAD package.  I am not interested in Parametric Technology, I don't want anything with an extended learning curve.  From what I've read here, it appears that Solidworks is the front runner with SolidEdge coming in second, and Autodesk products a questionable third.  Our boss also wants us to look at Ashlar Vellum (mainly because it runs on a Mac).  Has anybody used Vellum for any design projects.  Any Feedback would be appreciated.

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

Fogleghorn,

If you are wanting to have associativity in your models, take Solid Edge off your selection list.  Even though it can be done, it is difficult and requiers many steps to complete.  I've talked with the head of software developement for Solid Edge before about this and he clearly stated that Solid Edge does not want to give people the tools to make this associativity, because they fear that it may confuse users (not my words).  Solid Edge has never had any desire to increase their assembly and/or part-to-part associativity performance, and based on what I've been hearing, it doesn't look like they ever will.  At least not in the near future, say 4 years or so.

And this is my biggest complaint with Solid Edge.

Don Shoebridge
Sr. Product Developement Engineer
www.geocities.com/donshoebridge

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

Very interesting thread. As one guy here who posted his response here rightfully stated, you should choose your tool to work best for you application. He was right, there is no "one size fits all" thing except for pantyhose. Our company manufactures electronic equipment so most of the time we design sheet metal enclosures. We needed the software to be the best in sheet metal design with ability to model existing electronic components to be used in assemblies. I should mention that we have three divisions in our company. One used SolidWorks and another SolidEdge. We had Autocad 14 prior to making decision to purchase solid modeling software. We compared both SW and SE along with Mechanical Desktop and Microstation. The real choice was between SolidWorks and SolidEdge, because other two were clearly not on the same level. We decided to purchase SolidEdge, it was v.7 back then. We are using version 10 now. Reason for going with SolidEdge was its clear superiority in sheet metal design.
We have it for two years now and have never been felt that we made a wrong choice. It works very well for us and does what we expected it to do. We don't have large assemblies so this was never an issue. It was very easy to learn and master. Very intuitive interface, it almost leads you by the hand from one step to another. You don't have to scroll through icons and commands to do the next step. When you go to the next logical step in design, the interface changes and you only have the commands you might want to execute.
Easy and very user friendly. I hired a new designer two weeks ago and she learned to use it in about two days, although truth must be told, she was a SolidWorks user before.
Hope this helps,
Efraim

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

I have been using Solidworks for 2 years now with the best hardware available in the market and can safely say that while it is has a great  interface and is quick to learn , it does have a serious problem with large assemblies - it tends to get very slow and unstable . If you have the time to learn the Pro/E I would choose it over SW .

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

I have been in this field for more than 2 years.. and i think Pro-E is the best software for 3D solid modelling.. Though the learning may take some time it is worth spending as Pro-E has much more options for certain modules like Mould..

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

DJP,

With your 2 years of experience, how many CAD packages have you used, parametric or otherwise?

Don Shoebridge
Sr. Product Developement Engineer
www.geocities.com/donshoebridge

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

we are a heat exchanger manufacturing company manufacturing finned coil heat exchangers for the air conditioning and refrigeration market. at the moment we are deliberating whether to use solid works or autocad. most of the drawings we do are 2D with the occassional product development exercise. kindly advice on what to use.

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

RJM,

From a product developement point of view, I would choose either SolidWorks, Pro/E or Catia.  Keep in mind that I've never used Pro/E or Catia before, but I know that all three of them do share some functionality with each other, mainly the ability to do top-down assembly design, which is a must for product developement work.

Obviously, there must be some reason for wanting to move away from AutoCAD, other than just wanting to do 3D.  I'm assuming that there is enough design complexity to warrent the change.

Don Shoebridge
Sr. Product Developement Engineer
www.geocities.com/donshoebridge

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

Hi there, Ive used AutoCad on and off,Mechanical Desktop,had a dabble with Solid Edge, Unigraphics, Solidworks, Catia and Inventor. I cant say Im fully experienced in any of the above but I have found all of them except Mechanical Desktop a bit poor in detailing (2d dims etc)the 3d models.
 Yeah you might be able to create a fancy model but the shop floor still needs 2d data to work from at the end of the day unless your a big automated outfit - you may do the complex model a bit quicker but you can spend more time arsing around with the drafting side of it if your not careful.
 Im not saying Mechanical desktop is the 3d winner here,but seeing as you already use 2d AutoCad I found it the next logical step up. It depends ENTIRELY on what you do in your company etc. This program  does seem to have a better 'drafting' base being built on vanilla Autocad and I have had a whole manner of basic problems with data excange in some of the other systems - especially Inventor(Stuff coming in 25.4 times to big/small, layers vanishing etc and iges inserts causing an unforseen shutdowns).
 Some outfits use 2 (or more!) sytems to gain benifits where it suits them. Eg. Solidworks to do solid modelling and Autocad for drafting and other 2d work.
 I wish there was an inbetween between the two competing AutoDesk packages (Inventor/Mechanical Desktop) meaning the functionality of Inventor with the Mech desktop interface or mentality (my opinion) so long term Autocad users are not left high and dry. I like MDT for its sufacing/solid capabilities but if you do sheet metal work then MDT is perhaps not the way to go, but I do currently like to be able to use 2d and 3d at the same time in the same window! - and not one part only,then another part only, then another all seperate, then an assembly along with tons of different file extensions for all the different modes(sheet metal/product/drafting/etc). At least MDT is just a DWG at the end of the day and is fully interchangeable with your existing data back and forth and can still handle all your existing Lisp and scripts etc.
 I suppose if I could get into the 'seperated' frame of mind when conceptualising a 'general arrangement' my opinion may change, but currently I like working on multiple parts in the same window as I go along.
 All of the above is just my limited experience and by no means should it influence your decision - you need to fully test drive the top 4 if you can do - poke around and make sure it does *your* specific requirements efficiently.
 The scariest package in tems of learn factor is Pro/E and the easiest I found to be Solidworks.
 Anyway this is getting far longer than expectred so I'll catch ya laterz.  

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

Sirius,

With regards to your comment which follows; "Some outfits use 2 (or more!) sytems to gain benifits where it suits them. Eg. Solidworks to do solid modelling and Autocad for drafting and other 2d work."

I have done this before, and believe me, there is no benefit at all.  The whole idea is to have your drawings and your models linked in some way, so that changes made at the model level will be reflected at the drawing level.

By having two different CAD packages and having to translate 2D data from one to the other, would obviously break this link.  If there were any changes made at the model level, the drawings would have to be created from scratch, unless it was a simple change, like a hole size or something.  But even if this was the case, it would still take a doubling of effort to make even the simplist of changes - once at the model and then once at the drawing.

I'm sure that it's no secret here or abroad that I'm a SolidWorks fan, and have been for about 4 years or so.  And I will admit that SolidWorks doesn't have the greatest drafting environment.  But by the same token, it's not nearly the worst either.  With SolidWorks or any other parametric modeling package where models are linked with drawings, what is gained at the model and assembly end greatly out weighs any short commings there may be at the drawing end.

Don Shoebridge
Sr. Product Developement Engineer
www.geocities.com/donshoebridge

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

Yeah, thanks for that. You are absolutely right. I was sort of meaning situations where there is no real need for a solid model - but I fully appreciate what you are saying. I expected a response to tell me Im talking out of my rear end(!)on some of the things I rambled on about. Our company is still in the dark ages a bit with an attrocious and obscure 2D only cad system and Ive been assessing/learning new methods and packages in my own time to keep me employable in the future. You see I've only pottered about on many systems (demo's etc)and cant claim to be a master of any *yet* :). Its good to get the misconceptions poeple like me have out in the open and then we can take heed and learn from poeple who have been there like youself.

Thanks and see you around,

Sirius (England)

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

I like HP ME30 or HP Solid Designer.  Powerful, fast, intuitive, nice to look at.  It blows
away Pro-E, which I am now on.  I don't know why it is not more popular.  It is expensive, but so is Pro-E.  The Pro-E sketch feature is pitiful compared to
the HP construction line method.  And Pro-E has too many pop-up menus, too much
clutter.  Too many clicks to do what you need to do.
HP 3D is easy.  They don't need user how- to forums, because its easy to figure stuff out for yourself.

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

Sirius,

I hope you didn't get the impression that I was beating you up over anything.  It's just that as you were discribing your situation, I had a Vietnam style flashback and terror flooded my body.  Scary!  :)

Don Shoebridge
Sr. Product Developement Engineer
www.geocities.com/donshoebridge

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

Hi there 3dDon, dont stress man :). I know I should probably start a new thread for this, but, I think the originator would have got sorted out by now and I was wondering if any of the posters here could help me justify the transfer to 3d for a small (family run) engineering company employing a total of 50 or so people with mostly conventional machinery and three relatively basic 'Bridgeport Universal' style cnc millers and a CMM.
 The thing is - all these packages seem aimed at "product design" with Excell linked variations etc - but what about a company who mostly do 1 offs or adaptions of jobs done in the past. We do Jigs and fixtures and press tooling which calls for the occasional 3d (surface built on wireframe)job for cnc-ing complex forms onto blocks of steel such as aerofoil shapes for locations etc. Our current 2d/3d CadCam package is WAY behind in technology and cant even do associative dimensioning hatching or stretching etc.
 When we do surfacing, it means drawing *all* lines seperately eg. 12 lines to make a cube! then applying a skin on it 1 at a time with no means of getting views into 2d etc. Im trying to encourage the company to adapt to 3d design  - I know it makes sense but its hard to convince poeple who have little or no knowledge of CAD and what is actually happening outside our cosy little office. What suggestions do you folks have?. Does anyone use 3d cad in this sector much yet? and if so, what were the justifications which swung the management?. Any comments welcome - even if its copy & paste this to another thread!!!!.

Thanks for your time.

Sirius.

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

Hi Guy, guess i'll jump in. Know what ya mean about little shop 2D-3D. I've been receiving dxf and translated cad files for years. Most are product designers strip downs  from delphi and vist. people using ug and ideas because they do their assemblies that way. They don't even put in qualifing points to fixture off of. I guess most of these people will be layed off doing autocad in a few years so I don't bitch much. They use their solid models because they can see in their heads the part they are designing. I have been using using 3D since AutoCad 10 because it does help for drill motor layout of complex piece parts but other then that its not cost effective. same as my structual work, might be good for architect, but when they try to give me 3D layout without cleaning it up its trouble expecially when the arch. dosn't know drafting standards. Well I could go on but I'll probally get flamed for this . Peace. The rentapen

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

Hi Guy, guess i'll jump in. Know what ya mean about little shop 2D-3D. I've been receiving dxf and translated cad files for years. Most are product designers strip downs  from delphi and vist. people using ug and ideas because they do their assemblies that way. They don't even put in qualifing points to fixture off of. I guess most of these people will be layed off doing autocad in a few years so I don't complain much. They use their solid models because they can see in their heads the part they are designing. I have been using using 3D since AutoCad 10 because it does help for drill motor layout of complex piece parts but other then that its not cost effective. same as my structual work, might be good for architect, but when they try to give me 3D layout without cleaning it up its trouble expecially when the arch. dosn't know drafting standards. Well I could go on but I'll probally get flamed for this . Peace. The rentapen

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

Sirius,

I have 4 years of SolidWorks experience as of last week.  Except for the past 2 months, all of my time has been spent doing one off's - special machines and test fixtures mostly.  If you are receiving or sending CAD data to/from outside, find a CAD package that has the highest number of file types that it can talk to (ie, IGES, STEP, DXF, etc.).

As for CNC machining, I have sent SolidWorks (98-2001) generated IGES files with and without surface information to some of the worst CAM packages ever made, and these files popped right in.  In the case where I sent surfaces, the generation of tool paths (by the operater) started as soon as the file came in.  With just wireframe, obviously surfaces had to be created.  The CAM packages that I've sent IGES files to were older versions EdgeCAM, MasterCAM and SurfCAM (old and new).

The newer verions of SurfCAM can be installed as an add-in to SolidWorks and all of the tools paths and code can be generated within the SolidWorks environment.  I have a machine shop owner friend in Michigan that I've done work with for some time and he is using SurfCAM within SolidWorks.  All I have to do is send him is the finished SolidWorks assemblies and cut the PO, and he's off and running!  Great stuff.

Don Shoebridge
Sr. Product Developement Engineer
www.geocities.com/donshoebridge

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

So, bearing in mind the situation I posted earlier, would anyone recommend the use of a proper 3D package when designing Progression Tools (multi stage press tools) and Checking/Workholding Fixtures such as bracket hole positions on a car exhaust system or Electrode machining holes in tip ends of Turbine blades to within 0.01mm of true position?.
 We currently recieve mostly paper or 2d generated dxfs etc from UG and Catia models and what a nightmare it can be  - hours of editing and rads spiraling out into infinity or fragmented into thousands of little blips etc etc making a normally small basic drawing upto 5MB in size or in the case of paper drawings a total redraw from scratch and you never get the views you need anyway! - with a model however, any view you want can be generated and it sounds like bliss.
 I think it would be an advantage to us to draw the fixture in 3d around an imported 3d model from the source - perhaps even performing boolean operations to get location nests/forms etc along with other benifits like not drawing 3 views seperatly which often allows unforseen clashes between things - and have you ever tried to redraw a complex aerofoil shape from paper casting drawings?? nothing is ever in a true orientation! and to be confident your jobs going to work you have to do a lot of double checking to make sure things function in '3d real space' it can take hours and hours of what could be 'unecessary' time.
 With standard parts like toggle clamps, air cylinders,motors,screws, press tool parts all available in 3d solids now, surely its possible build up a fixture or press tool more quickly than 2d draughting from scratch out of catalogs and reap all the other benifits 3d has to offer.
 We were once sent some drawings of a press tool undertaken by another company, it was obvious to me it had been done in 3d because there were exploded isometric views and telltale lines on blends etc, the other guys in our office just thought it was a 2d drawn isometric as they couldnt even comprehend drawing something like that in 3d! and even mocked me a bit for even thinking it! - they said it must of taken months to draw and laughed at the mugs who had paid for it thinking our cumbersome way was soooo much better - but little did they know - if that company wanted another similar press tool drawing up they could just change the model slightly and the rest will virtually automatic update which would have taken us weeks of sifting through and altering/redimensioning all the different plates, punches, dies detail views etc! aswell as they being able to use it for rendered visualisations for the customer and FEA of the punches/formers and finished article etc.
 With automatic feature recognition becoming available, we could even recieve a 'bent up' sheet metal pressing and then flatten it out for blanking etc rather than spending hours redrawing what you think the flat development will look like and figuring out all the bend calcs etc. So it does go on  - Ive seen it... but to what extent?.
 Our customers seem to forge on ahead with thier software and its getting more and more of a problem recieving information on our antiquated 2d system and things can only get worse.
 Somebody somewhere must have been in the exact same position and I would like to innovate/bring things more upto date rather than wash my hands of it all. But the final decision will only be made by the ever cost conscious (often foolhardy)bosses and Im just a lowly designer so what do I know??.
 Anyway, Ill leave it there before it turns into my work autobiography!! :). Sorry to bore you all - but somebody must know this situation/type of work and be able to offer further advice.
 PS Thanks to the posters above, Ive logged them into my head for the future. And if any guys from my works are reading this somehow - you know who I am!.

Sirius (The longest 'Limey' moan in the world).  

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

Sirius,

The short answer to your long question is, yes!  It is well worth going to 3D from 2d and for all of the reasons and assumptions that you just mentioned.  Building a 3D vitural fixture around the parts is exactly the way to do it.  And yes, it eliminates countless hours of guess work.  And yes, it eliminates mistakes.

You mentioned something about feature recognition and the ability to flaten sheet parts.  I'm not trying to plug SolidWorks again but...  If I were sent a dumb sheet metal solid, as long as it didn't have any embosses and it's not coined, I could flaten that dumb solid with SolidWorks in one step!  I haven't had the need to use it, but I have done it playing around.

You really need to get into 3D solid modeling.  You seem to know most, if not all of the benefits of 3D.  Now you just have to get a seat and try it.  Find a handfull of resalers in your area and see if they can perform some of the tasks that you are currently doing.

Don Shoebridge
Sr. Product Developement Engineer
www.geocities.com/donshoebridge

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

I'll support Don here.

I've worked at companies that had no prototype capabilities, and we had to rely on outside shops to do our work.  Having SolidWorks was a huge benefit.  We didn't have to worry about some drafter changing a dim without changing the object lines, or we didn't have to worry about the drawing not being to scale.  SolidWorks ties all that together (i.e. associativity).

Now I am working at a company that has a laser & 2 Amadas for sheet metal, 8 breaks, 8 Fadal 4-axis CNC stations, plus a bevy of other related machinery.  Having SolidWorks here is great for what we do.  We don't do much in the way of surface models, mostly sheet metal and simple, but complex, machining.

I send the SWX created flatpatterns as DFX to the sheet metal shop, and I send IGES files to the CNC mills.  Sometimes if there is a gap in production, I can even get my prototype parts back the same week.

"Happy the Hare at morning for she is ignorant to the Hunter's waking thoughts."

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

A lot of posts have stated that "we have ***, and it works for us".  If this is all that you need, there is no reason to switch packages, right?  In fact, with the right operator, even 'substandard' packages can perform admirably.  However, if you are in a position to purchase new CAD software, you will likely go with a full solid modelling package, and by far, I would have to say that UG comes out on top.

Jason Stranak
Eng. Director
www.tkti.biz

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

To add to this ancient thread - I have designed many complex industrial machines over 7 years using AutoCAD 10 thru 13 and will have to say it works well for assemblies of 200+ simple, orthogonal parts (such as would be made in a normal machine shop.)  Version 13+ has the solids which is useful to make shapes that can't be made with just thick polylines.  Despite the "2-1/2 D" nature of the older versions, it's an efficient way to accurately record a design.  Files are "stable" and can be relied on to open properly years later.  Version 13c3 software in particular was dead stable.

Having used Solidworks 97 thru 2000 for similar machines, it really slows down once the parts add up and requires more care to divide the design up into useable chunks.  It is easier to use initially but the downside is the more complex inter-relation between part, assembly, and drawing files.  We had daily crashes - especially when the files get large.  In some cases files did not open properly a year later.  Drawings in particular were vulnerable to loss of data or general flakeyness.

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

Hi, I think the Solid Edge is very friendly for human brains!

I am using Solid Edge for four years and strongly reccomend to get this software. Especialy in sheet metal aplication.
They upgraded the math core. Easy to migrate between Modelling and Drafting mode. Solide Edge has a bunch of file
translators. This software is stable.It has beatyful Tutorial, which allows You to get in a few days.
 When I  worked with Solid Works I had couple of times crashed files; I think Solid Works overloading computer Buffers.
Inventor still has bugs, may be in the future...it will be
beter.
Pro E has strong math core, stable but not friendly to users.
I-DEAS is good like Pro-E but more friendly.
So I would go for Solid Edge!

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

I have been a Solid Edge user for 8 years now and have seen many enhancements to this program over the years.  The next version has extensive enhancements in the area of surfacing, which will rival Pro-E.  I have also used SolidWorks and Pro-E.  Solid Edge has a workflow that will makes it easy to use and have you up an running within a very short period of time (maybe a couple of weeks).  The single most important feature of Solid Edge is their support.  Unlike other CAD companies who rely on their resellers to provide support to you, Solid Edge provides an 800 number which puts you in touch with their head office where they will assist you until your qestion is answered (I've never been on hold for more than five minutes.  Usually, they answer right away.)  They will walk you through what's required to achieve what you want or have you e-mail it to them so you can both be looking at the same thing while discussing the problem.  Try that with Solidworks (if they return your call within 48 hours).  As far as Pro-E goes, by the time you figure out all of the dialog boxes and get good at it, you'll have already designed your entire product in Solid Edge.

Anyone who uses any 3D software will tell you the more you use it, the better you get.  Knowing how to start a project and having a lot of it worked out in your head before you start makes a big difference.  (and the smallest component or fastener always screws you up in the end).  Have local reseller give you a demo....good luck!

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

Okay, it is two years later, we are still using Cadkey, and we are still trying to make a decision on whether or not to switch to SolidWorks or SoliEdge.  To make matters worse, I spoke with someone that had an Autodesk Inventor demo the other day, and he said it was great.  Anybody out there switching from Cadkey?  If so, what are you going to?

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

I am a great fan of SolidWorks.  It is a great product, and SW is a great company to do business, especially after enduring PTC purgatory.

However, after observing SolidWorks, SolidEdge, and Inventor, I came to the conclusion that "it's the pilots, not the planes" that matter.  All are about equally capable in the hands of a capable user.

If the ladies don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

...and there is always a better alternative to using PTC products.

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

We made the formal switch to Solidworks from Cadkey last December after using CK since the late 80's and couldn't be happier overall.

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

I have tried Autocad with Mechanical Desktop, Inventor, ProE and SolidEdge and voted for the last. SolidEdge is very easy to use without reading the manual. Even complicated parts like pistol-receivers can be built up in a few hours. The tools You need are always in reach and you can concentrate on Your work instead of program handling.

Andreas Nehme
mail@waffentechnik.com

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

I have (and still are) heavily doing research into these programs.  I evaluated Pro/E, Inventor, and Solid Edge back in 2000 and chose Inventor.  Some of the decision was based on my familiarity with AutoCAD.  DO NOT MAKE THE SAME ASSUMPTION.  Inventor and AutoCAD are like oil and water.  I can and have imported files more cleanly to and fro Mech Desktop from other programs than Inventor.  
Inventor is decent for simple things, but if you want or need true 3D (3D spline, surfacing, etc) leave it alone.  It does come bundled with AutoCAD and MDT.
SolidEdge seems to have the most robust features for a mid-range package and is based onthe more proven Parasolid kernel (unlike Inventor).
SolidWorks, however, seems to have the complete 3D package.  It is almost as functional and capable as SolidEdge, and the Office package comes with a simple FEA program and photo rendering.  By far, more people use SolidWorks than any other.
Pro/E Wildfire is highly capable, but clearly PTC makes the majority of their profit on training.  The program is nowhere near as easy to use as the above 3.  Plus, it is heavily modularized.  If you have advanced surfacing, you must pay for it (over and above the higher price).
If you need easy modeling, there are a host of programs like Alibre and such that do 70% of what SE, SW and IV do.  For those of us that need the other 30%, those programs can't cut it.  I've tried.

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

TheTick,

You said on 21 October 2003: "...and there is always a better alternative to using PTC products."

I am curious as to what your feelings are regarding a competitive alternative to the Behavioral Modeling Extension (BMX) (www.ptc.com/appserver/it/icm/cda/icm01_list.jsp?group=2...) functionality available in Pro/ENGINEER. I know of no other program that has this type of functionality. It is this feature that, for me, propels Pro/ENGINEER into an engineering tool rather than simply a solid modeling tool.

Best regards,

Matthew Ian Loew
"Luck is the residue of design."
Branch Rickey


Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

MLoew:
re:"I know of no other program that has this type of functionality."

Which programs?

Dollar for dollar, PTC is an easy non-choice.  If you need mid-range capability, there are plenty of other choices.  If you need high range capability, Pro/E really pales next to UG and CATIA.

The bottom line with PTC is the bottom line, most notably the way theirs goes up while nickel-and-diming yours.  PTC likes to bundle everything in such a way as to compel you to buy things you don't need in order to get the things you do need, from a sales force resembling a school of hungry pirhana.  Marketing by Machiavelli and design by de Sade.

If the ladies don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

TheTick,

I am not sure you addressed my point about the Behavioral Modeling Extension. If you are only going to be doing solid modeling, sure, other packages might have an advantage, real or imagined. I remain convinced, however, for organizations that are integrating and imbedding engineering content into their designs, Pro/ENGINEER has no competition. If you have contradictory evidence, I would certainly like to learn about it.

Best regards,

Matthew Ian Loew
"Luck is the residue of design."
Branch Rickey


Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

But you haven't stated which programs you are familiar with.

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

TheTick,

I have a high general awareness of most of the high-end packages used in the automotive industry: UG, I-DEAS, CATIA, & Pro/ENGINEER. I have personally used I-DEAS. Why would it matter what packages I am familiar with? The answer to my question is not dependant on my knowledge of a particular software.

Best regards,

Matthew Ian Loew
"Luck is the residue of design."
Branch Rickey


Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

I'll plead "no contest" on this one.  I looked into BMX.  It looks pretty slick.  I can't find enough information about other CAD systems to make an decent comparison.

It's been 2 years since I worked on Pro/E, and 4 since the days I was using UG and Pro/E side-by-side, so I'm sure much has changed.

I'll admit that I am more than a little prejudiced by how much I've grown to detest the PTC "culture".  Pro/E and its sisters are decent products, but dealing with PTC doesn't seem worth it in most cases.

If the ladies don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

Thread554-73596

A mild example of PTC culture that bugs me.

Fairly typical symptoms of the PTC-sclerotic mindset.  It even affects users.  "You don't need an undo command because if you did need it we would have given it to you."

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

Hi DGP,
This forum is great reading!!!!
Anyway, I've used both SolidWorks and ProE for many years.  Both are very good.  SolidWorks is cheaper but lags behind ProE in performance.  ProE takes a while to become proficient but worth the effort IF YOU REALLY NEED the extra power.

***Most important...consider your users.  Who and how many will be using this software.  Training will definately become an issue.  Our company (requiring ProE) now has an ONSITE ProE professional to do all training, maintenance, upgrades, FAQ fielding, INSTEAD of $$$ costly $$$ outsourcing training classes.  It has worked out very well for us.

Good luck!!!  ;o)

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

Tick
    All the cad packages love to nickel and dime you 1 package at a time. Catia is probably the worst. They have 100+ modules. PTC does have alot of bundles but you can negotiate with them to seperate things out. Even Solidworks doesn't give you everything in the base package.

ProEpro
www.whitelightdesign.com

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

Has CATIA ever threatened to do everything possible to cost you your job for not choosing them?

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

I am surprised that the Church of the Pro/E has not burned down this web site for all of the heresy posted here!

After investing the company's largess in a "productivity" product whose maintenance costs and training costs know no end, why shouldn't they threaten you with your job if you do not spend the 1000 hours to get proficient?  By the way don't charge the 1000 hours to overhead.  Get the client to pay for it or do it on your own time, and be quick about it!

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

I know this topic is 3 years old, but instead of letting this thread degenerate into a dissertation on CAD business practices, let's try to keep on-topic.

I'm sure we could all point fingers in a million different directions, but it won't help.  Each user (company) must decide for themselves which CAD system fits thier own workflow and provides the required tools they need to ultimately satisfy thier customers, and do it with as little over head as possible.

MadMango
"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home."
Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of Digital Equipment Corp., 1977
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

I think that the question “which 3D CAD is best” is not the right one. Better question is how to select the right CAD system, which will perfectly fit all my needs. This process is quite complicated.
Not only because it is expensive, but first of all that is a choice for many years to the future with connections to business partners, character of manufacturing, existing software or existing company information system. Below are some criteria, which is good to watch and evaluate.
-    Character of usage. Serial/ small-lot/single part production, Design of final products/ design of components for partners.
-    Existing relations with business partners. Which software they have, software and data compatibility, possibilities of conversion.
-    Existing software equipment. Start from scratch, extension of existing solution, relationship to existing software
-    Range of planed projects. Number of parts in one assembly, complexity of parts, type of parts (complicated surfaces, complicated geometry)
-    Characteristic of planed system – Time necessary for user training, applicability for planed projects, hardware requirements, price politic, historical information about system, how is the system open for custom changes, number of users, quality and number third party applications.
-    And many others

Mirekp
http://www.mitcalc.com
Mechanical calculations

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

wow, after 3 years and this thread stills runs.
Last night I sent my first post on this forum, and I'll post a similar question here since I can see the relation to this topic.

I will propose a switch to a 3D parametric CAD app to the company I work for.

My main interest right now is an app that can maintain relations among dimensions of different parts in a given assembly. I looked a bit into Inventor and can see that its constraint capabilities could ptentially suit this need.

Is anyone familiar with this kind of functionality?

In the beginning of the thread, and throughout, most comments concerning Inventor were in the lines of "not familiar with it", and being an AutoCAD user myself I can understand the doubt of an autodesk product delivering high performance.

I've been able to create 3D illustrations with AutoCAD, but now I'm interested in automation and managing production datam and I don't think that there is a need for custom-built apps produced in-house for this functionality, there must be some CAD apps around that include this functionality.
Inventor ships with Vault, so far I see it as a kind of ACDSee of CAD, with the added feature of locking files in current use, or something of the sort.

Does SolidWorks ship with a comparable tool for data management? Are SolidWorks or SolidEdge capable of relational modelling, in which changing one dimension of one part will affect dimensions of other parts according to simple algebraic equations? More importantly, what kind of output can these assemblies deliver? For existing custom built apps, integration will require certain data, for example dimensions in a table format. It could be an excel spreadsheet for example, and this data would be manipulated byt the custom software, and viceversa, a two-way flow of data I/O.

Concerning the CAD design tools in each of the apps available in market, I'm pretty they all offer pretty much the same things, each have advantages I suppose, some may have a few advantages over others, but as several people said, a good operator will be equally productive in most of these apps anyway.
But when it comes to handling production data, engineering data, I think it takes more time to make a final decision, since this will affect productivity more, and it seems to me that once we enter this aspect of CAD apps, they begin to require certain additional software and plugins that greatly increase the overall cost of the software solution from each vendor.

Any tips?

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

Great thread here!

My $.02 worth--I've used Bentley Microstation for 3D modeling and for drafting for a long time.  I wouldn't recommend it since they don't really support mechanical applications anymore.  It is, however, with version J (no, I haven't bought V8), a pretty decent 3D modeler.  The tools for doing drawings from those models are pretty good as well.  

I've been learning ProE at the request of one of my customers so that we can do their projects in ProE, and the many comments in this forum about learning curve are right on the mark.  I have never tried to learn anything so difficult.  I understand, though, why the people that are proficient at it defend it so vigorously and seem to be a little arrogant.  Expertise in ProE doesn't come easily or cheaply.  

One of the things that I struggle with in design projects is convincing people that just because something is possible doesn't mean it should be done.  Parametrics is like that--kind of a neat idea and theoretically cool, but not enough of an improvement to be worth all the headaches, at least for the kind of machines that we design.  Just being able to model things easily and intuitively would be enough--every function and every feature doesn't have to be linked to everything else in the universe.

The connectedness-of-all-things that proE and others strive for comes with some real problems.  Even in Microstation, the intent is to never duplicate a model--an assembly or weldment model file consists of only references to other files.  We work around that feature to ensure that when we are finished with a file, it can stand on its own.  If I need to send someone a model of a weldment, I want to send them a file, not 45 files that must be located in particular folders in windows so that the weldment file can pull them in and display them.  We copy everything into the file so it has portability, and gladly spend the time to fix the weldment when we change a part.

I always hear the argument--"but it's so neat to be able to, like, move the hole in this bracket, and it automatically moves the hole on everything it is ever bolted to."  Yeah, but you still have to evaluate each and every place that part is used, revise each part and assembly, re-release the revisions, fix the parts manuals, re-program the machine tools, issue ECOs (for some companies), figure out how to handle service parts sales of the old part, and cope with the old part that shows up in assembly 6 months later and doesn't fit.  Moving the stinking hole is the easy part.

Now that I've opened myself up to hate mail from the proE guys, I'll sign off.

Thanks

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

The best 3D CADS software i have used is Unigraphics v18 i found it hard to use at first but once i got into it was all quite easy.(highly recommended)

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

okeng
If a part is used in several assemblies and you only have a problem with the hole location in one bracket, then get a new part number for that one bracket. Then u do not have to revise 100 other assemblies and worry about inventory.

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

Quick Answer: Solidworks.
I worked 2 years on Pro-E and changed companies.
They had Pro-E and subsequently CHANGED to Solidworks.

Solidworks has PDM Works for product data management.
It is windows compatible.
I saw a demo on Pro-E Wildfire earlier this year.
The demo I saw (which wasn't ready then) was still behind
Solidworks in functionality.

I saw the Solidworks 2004 demo. They are still advancing and responding to users.

I actually requested and got a change made.
(Centerlines were unpickable for assembly threaded holes.)
Try and get Pro-E to do it for you. Their repeated response would be "Oh you can make a map-key for that".

My estimate for a first time user, is Solidworks is 30% more efficient in almost every detail.

RE: Which 3-D Cad Software is Best?

I, too, must vote for Solidworks.

In my experience, some drafters have difficulty moving to a 3D software, no matter how much you re-train them.  To move from AutoCAD to SW (or some other 3D based CAD), you will need to invest in training and upgrading your existing technical data.  Taken together, these things may rival the cost of the software itself, no matter what package you pick.  Solidworks facilitates both by being easy to use from a "mouse-click" point of view, and being capable of importing and exporting many different file types.

STF

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