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Earth-scraper in Mexico
2

Earth-scraper in Mexico

Earth-scraper in Mexico

(OP)
65-storey building below ground.
 

RE: Earth-scraper in Mexico

I wonder where the water table is.

 

Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: Earth-scraper in Mexico

The best part about this article is that "architects" have designed it.  Mexico City already has buildings which have settled a full storey because the water has been pumped out from under the city.  The amount of dewatering this fiasco would require would adversely affect a large surrounding area.   

RE: Earth-scraper in Mexico

Mexico City is largely above a filled-in lake.  And how do you propose to excavate a large funnel shape when "there are no available plots"?

RE: Earth-scraper in Mexico

Mexico City has drawn down its water table over the years which is also causing settlement issues.

Sounds like a depressing place to live with no windows. Maybe they don't have egress requirements there?  

RE: Earth-scraper in Mexico

Gotta wonder about seismic issues...

RE: Earth-scraper in Mexico

You gotta love these new ideas architect come up with.  They can't come up with new imaginative ways to get in Architectural digest by going up, so lets see how big a hole we can make habitable.  

RE: Earth-scraper in Mexico

Well, this is truly very impressive Architectural forethought!  

When it collapses, at least they won't have to worry about burying the bodies.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

 

RE: Earth-scraper in Mexico

2
Maybe they're holding the plans upside down?

RE: Earth-scraper in Mexico

Crash an airliner in that pit and watch it burn.  And won't be anyone jumping up from it.

RE: Earth-scraper in Mexico

Drainage?

Ventilation?

Natural light?

Escape paths in case of fire/ other emergency? (Climbing DOWN 65 storeys will take half an hour. Climbing UP the same height will kill you!)

Should you do something just because you can?

Too many questions. No good answers.

RE: Earth-scraper in Mexico

Some tunnels in the world are about this depth, i don't think the answers are any different.   

How could you do anything so vicious? It was easy my dear, don't forget I spent two years as a building contractor. - Priscilla Presley & Ricardo Montalban
 

RE: Earth-scraper in Mexico

@rowingengineer:

The answers ARE different for tunnels because:
1. The tunnel itself may (hopefully, unless blocked with rubble or water) provide an escape path at least in one direction. The same goes for ventilation
2. No sewage needs to be drained from a tunnel.
3. Natural light is not required in a tunnel because you don't expect to spend more than a few minutes in it.
4. Finally, the number of people who may be affected by a tunnel fire or collapse is far less than the number of people who can be affected by such an accident in a building.

RE: Earth-scraper in Mexico

elite 7,
1. well not really, if there is a problem I would be taking the escape hatch rather than driving the possible 11km of the Laerdal or longer.
2. there normally are one or two toilets that get pumped to the surface.
3. 24km long could take a while to get thru.
4. Take all depends on the type of event.

I am not saying this is the best idea in the world, but I have seen worse.

How could you do anything so vicious? It was easy my dear, don't forget I spent two years as a building contractor. - Priscilla Presley & Ricardo Montalban
 

RE: Earth-scraper in Mexico

Very tricky indeed.

I honestly have no idea how they'll figure out the wind coefficients.

And shoring as they build from ground level downwards will be a nightmare.

tg

RE: Earth-scraper in Mexico

How do you hold back the earth pressure from an 800' deep hole?
If the soil is around 120pcf the earth pressure will be around 46 bar at the lowest point. Perhaps they can pressurize the lower levels to balance this.

Also the architect is showing an inverted pyramid. Wouldn't it make more sense to make this a cone shape? (compression rings)

RE: Earth-scraper in Mexico

This is essentially a mining engineering problem.  Not unlike an open cut mine, but the plan area is very small in comparison, and would likely be impractical due to site congestion and water table issues.  If they are really serious about it, the drilling investigation will shed light on how feasible it is.

RE: Earth-scraper in Mexico

hokie66,

Of course an architect designed it ... would an engineer?

It is a sci-fi dream to build something like that.  The practical problems of excavation and shoring during construction will pursuade them to do something else.

Holding back the load after it is built shouldn't be a problem.  simple concrete rings should give you all the soil resistance you need.

I am sure there are basic problems with getting the waste out of the hole each day that will cost unnecessary power and I doubt the grass they would get on any of the ledges along the inside courtyard would last and you'll have mud banks to enjoy.

The downsides just keep popping up.

I actually wonder if this is a satire on the new city zoning laws that prohibit tall buildings.

RE: Earth-scraper in Mexico

The structural engineer worries about the resistance to the applied loads and designs the structure accordingly.

In Mexico city an expert in subsurface drainage will obviously be required.

A geo-tech engineer looks at the options for soil loadings since there will be many options when the site is bored and then opened.

The architect is responsible for the general concept and everything that affects the appearance and use. This also includes the general mechanicals and the and the number of toilets. - There are specialists in that field.

I am a registered engineer, but I also am an amateur "Crapologist" in honor of Sir Crapper that developed the first usable flushing toilet. In spite of documenting toilets in 40 countries, I would not venture outside my professional field to determine the number of toilets and sanitary removal system. If built, I am sure there will be a few $6000-$7000 Toto toilets somewhere.

If it is built, I would love go to see the finished product.

In Dubai, many of the structures were also considered follies, but the professions worked to make the concepts work.

Dick

Engineer and international traveler interested in construction techniques, problems and proper design.

RE: Earth-scraper in Mexico

The fact that the structures in Dubai were built doesn't mean they are not follies.  As engineers, we have as much right to our opinions of folly as anyone else.

RE: Earth-scraper in Mexico

hokie -

By follies, I was referring to initial economic development without recognizing the engineering.

I stayed at the "7 star" hotel, but had to share a room with a friend from Kuwait that got us in. Fortunately, I was his guest and his firm picked up the $2500 room..

I was at the 3/4 point of the construction of the tower and there were engineers everywhere and fortunately most spoke English/British but was very professional to get the high strength concrete up that high on a 24/7 project.

Dick

Engineer and international traveler interested in construction techniques, problems and proper design.

RE: Earth-scraper in Mexico

Well, it's an interesting idea, but I can't help but to think that the Architect's brother-in-law is a waterproofer.

 

"We shape our buildings, thereafter they shape us." -WSC

RE: Earth-scraper in Mexico

Another issue is that Mexico City has a massive problem with air pollution and inversion layers.  This will be one dingy, dirty, smelly hole in less than a year.  You may be able to ventilate the interior spaces, (with sloped shafts?), but getting air movement in the "open" air?  That will not be pleasant.  Every third or fourth floor of the "glass facade", will be louvered "fresh air" intakes.  I agree it is an interesting concept. But I also agree that the physical and engineering problems may prove insurmountable.  Especially in this location.
Regards,
EEJaime

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