×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!
  • Students Click Here

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Jobs

Material test Certificates
3

Material test Certificates

Material test Certificates

(OP)

What is a Material test certificate?

Do we need this each time we order a std 316SS orifice plate?

Can we have one certificate to represent a shipment of orifice plates of different sizes, class and thickness?  

 
 
 

RE: Material test Certificates

A material test certificate is a useless piece of paper that contains the words "This [thing you bought from us] has been tested in accordance to [some test standard]."

The wording implies that the test pasted, although this often isn't the case.

The wording clearly states that a test has been performed, although this often isn't the case.

Do you need one?  Are you reselling the plates?

Can you have one certificate for many?  Sure, it saves the forgers time and paper.

 

RE: Material test Certificates

MintJulep is pretty close to the definition but I will add that the Certificate is a voucher for a part that is made from material that has the physical & chemical properties of said material part that meets a particular standard such as ASME Section II (applicable part A or B)...

RE: Material test Certificates

(OP)
thank you MintJulep and qcrobert... at least i know its not that useful :)


i dont know if i need any...

nope we are buying for our end user

 

RE: Material test Certificates

Material Test Report
Certified Test Report
Mill Test Report
Manufacturer's Test Report

(Replace Report with Certificate as desired)

None of these have a standardized meaning.  They can essentially mean whaever the user of the term wants them to mean.  If you are purchasing material, good practice would be to define what documentation you need to satisfy your needs in the purchase agreement; this is the only way you can be sure the supplier understands what it is you want.

We sell a lot of material and often will supply much more paper than the customer actually request, with certificates that we meet all the applicable specifications, actual test results of all the chemical and mechanical tests, certificates of every NDT performed, as well as any additional testing required.  In our business, we find it easier to give the customer too much documentation than not enough, since indadquate documentation will often delay payment.  But, we sell a lot of mateiral.  Our larger customers have specific requriements for the documentation, detailing the required content, language used, units of measurement, etc...  I've even seen the size of the paper specified and color of the ink used.

So, if your customer has specific requirements for the documentation, you should make those requirements clear to your supplier; otherwise you may not get what you need.

rp

RE: Material test Certificates

(OP)
Thanks redpicker. Good info.

Normally we purchased std 316SS orifice plate and couple of times we purchased duplex or super duplex SS.

so for the 316ss we normally include cert of conformance and material test rpt. we also incl hydrostatic test without chart recorder.
i am new here and i was told this is sufficient. and normally the they make copies of the mtr for a number of orifice plates.
 

RE: Material test Certificates

If you buy the material to an SA spec the testing is mandatory.  If you buy "316 s/s", nothing is mandatory; it is just supposed to resemble stainless steel.

Buy "SA-240 Type 316" and note on your PO 'CMTR required'.  

RE: Material test Certificates

Duwe6 offers sound advice.

As a fabrication facility, I always demand a CMTR on all our SS plates w/ matching ht. nos. because we may be fabricating a pressure vessel for which it is required of use the rems for products not requiring a CMTR.

When you stated you were ordering orfice plate, do you mean are ordering the plate to fabricate an orfice plate or do you mean you are purchasing a finished orfice plate made out of SA316L?

"Can we have one certificate to represent a shipment of orifice plates of different sizes, class and thickness?"

Yes this may happen with the same material in different thicknesses IF the material all came from the same coil.  Normally this is not the case.

QCRobert   

RE: Material test Certificates

(OP)
Thank you Duwe6 and QCRobert.

I meant purchasing finished orifice plates. Everything done by factory. We are purchase this for our end user.

RE: Material test Certificates

Certificates of Conformance are absolutely worthless. Don't confuse certificate with report because as mentioned above what you specify as a Purchaser should be in the report.  

RE: Material test Certificates

(OP)
Thanks metengr

What is the difference between Cert of Comformance and Cert of Compliance?

RE: Material test Certificates

There is no difference, just general statements where the material meets the specification. No test data.

RE: Material test Certificates

MTC is necessary. However, the traceability is more vital.

RE: Material test Certificates

Because 316 SS and 304 SS are commonly mixed, PMI testing is recommended upon receiving the material; this is the only guarantee that you will actually receive the alloy purchased.  

RE: Material test Certificates

Even worse that 304 being substituted for your required 316, 303 may be substituted because it is so much easier to derill/machine to make the knife-edge hole for an orifice plate.

RE: Material test Certificates

- 316 SS is chemistry.
- UNS S31600 is chemistry under the Unified Numbering System
- ASTM A-xxx or ASME SA-xxx are Material Specifications
  with specific chemistry and physical properties to meet
  the ASTM or ASME Material Specification
As noted in other posts above,
 Q: What is the difference between Cert of Conformance and Cert
    of Compliance?
 A: There is no difference, just general statements where the
    material meets the specification. No test data.
ASTM and ASME publish standard definitions.
Also. a level of confidence between the buyer and seller is essential in any safety related area.



 

RE: Material test Certificates

If this is a finished product, then the question is:

"Does the certificate attest that the part has been manufactured in accordance with the drawing and materials list provided by the client"?

If you expect your supplier to sell you consistent parts every time you order, and especially if you have a legal requirement to provide parts that conform to some approved design (I'm thinking of my roots in aircraft parts, of course, but there are many other examples that apply), then you need some assurance that your supplier sells you what you ask for.

Otherwise the legal liability trail ends with you!

In many cases this legal stuff doesn't matter (eg, aftermarket auto parts, farm equipment, etc. wherever the cut-throats rule instead of the lawyers).
 

Steven Fahey, CET

RE: Material test Certificates

(OP)
The orifice plates are not the same all the time. Yes, our end user do specify their spec but they do not exactly mentioned it if it is a normal 316 SS. But for DSS and SDSS, they do ask for certain mandatory tests or certification

RE: Material test Certificates

While reading the previous posts, I would like to remind you of something:
If it comes to claims and arbitration (not necessarily now, but in n years), that little piece of paper called Cert or whatever, could save your company. So, my two cents: Follow what your spec and purchaser call for even if it looks like a worthless paper to you.  

RE: Material test Certificates

(OP)
thanks waterpipe..i'll keep that in mind

RE: Material test Certificates

(OP)
Can anyone tell me:
1)What a Dimensional Control Report (DCR) is, and if there is an example of this report that i can read?

2) A Coordinate Measurement Machine (CMM) Report is?

Our manufacturer has to produe a DCR as part of a mandatory requirement from our end user. Out of this, the manufaturer informed us that a CMM is also required since we request for the DCR with additional cost.

I have no idea what these documents are.

RE: Material test Certificates

We always treat materials certs with great care, as they prove that you used the correct material type according to the client specifications, so like "waterpipe" says - it can save your company and you litigation in the future.

You must comply with the clients specifications and reporting requirements at all times no exceptions – material traceability is a very important component in any job.

online weld & material tracking system
http://www.qcwelds.com/

RE: Material test Certificates

Eager, The DCR sounds like a Regular Dimensional report, which is just a space to fill out measurements on a first run. here's a great example.

http://elsmar.com/pdf_files/Dimensional_Layout_Form.pdf

CMM reports are generated when a CMM machine performs a layout of a part. They vary from software to software and machine to machine. Try an image search. Or look at PCDMIS's site. That's what we use.

Hope that helps.

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members!


Resources