Career Road Block
Career Road Block
(OP)
Friends,
Currently I have been working for an employer (who will remain nameless) in the manufacturing industry for the past 2 years. As a mechanical graduate, I was delighted to score the job, although very low paying, due to the fact that it would give me significant design experience.
As time has progressed however I have realized this career choice has been more of a hindrance than a blessing. My work consists of the following:
1) Sheet metal design & layouts
2) Turn-around drawings
3) Drafting and detailing drawings
4) Simple cost analysis
There is no analytical spectrum to the job and no concern given with strength of materials, analysis of the designs or even the opportunity to conduct any analysis with any sort of guidance from senior engineers.
The job is very much suited for a college graduate as opposed to an engineering graduate, and I feel as if I had more technical knowledge coming out of university than I currently possess now.
----
One benefit of the job however is that education is funded. This of course is another road block however (this time by my own doing). In university my marks dropped drastically in second year, and while I worked my butt off to pull them up in third and fourth years, my cumulative average was a C+, with a my last two year averages being B- and B respectively. Pursuing a masters degree seems impossible now since my academics are less than stellar.
----
It seems like getting out of my current job as fast as possible is the only way to make a positive step in my career and get into a company that can provide me with solid engineering experience. The trouble is that after being with this company for two and a half years, I have very little "actual engineering experience" to show for it. Getting an interview is difficult and when interviews do come, the common notion of my lack of experience with analysis of any sort is apparent.
I am not one to lie and say I know something I do not. I refuse to claim or take credit for work I have not done myself and I feel like I am truly at a career road block.
Either I stay at my current company till I get my P.Eng and hope at that time things will change, or I find another job (although the later is proving to be very difficult).
Any advice from fellow engineers would be greatly appreciated!
Regards,
Truly Frustrated
Currently I have been working for an employer (who will remain nameless) in the manufacturing industry for the past 2 years. As a mechanical graduate, I was delighted to score the job, although very low paying, due to the fact that it would give me significant design experience.
As time has progressed however I have realized this career choice has been more of a hindrance than a blessing. My work consists of the following:
1) Sheet metal design & layouts
2) Turn-around drawings
3) Drafting and detailing drawings
4) Simple cost analysis
There is no analytical spectrum to the job and no concern given with strength of materials, analysis of the designs or even the opportunity to conduct any analysis with any sort of guidance from senior engineers.
The job is very much suited for a college graduate as opposed to an engineering graduate, and I feel as if I had more technical knowledge coming out of university than I currently possess now.
----
One benefit of the job however is that education is funded. This of course is another road block however (this time by my own doing). In university my marks dropped drastically in second year, and while I worked my butt off to pull them up in third and fourth years, my cumulative average was a C+, with a my last two year averages being B- and B respectively. Pursuing a masters degree seems impossible now since my academics are less than stellar.
----
It seems like getting out of my current job as fast as possible is the only way to make a positive step in my career and get into a company that can provide me with solid engineering experience. The trouble is that after being with this company for two and a half years, I have very little "actual engineering experience" to show for it. Getting an interview is difficult and when interviews do come, the common notion of my lack of experience with analysis of any sort is apparent.
I am not one to lie and say I know something I do not. I refuse to claim or take credit for work I have not done myself and I feel like I am truly at a career road block.
Either I stay at my current company till I get my P.Eng and hope at that time things will change, or I find another job (although the later is proving to be very difficult).
Any advice from fellow engineers would be greatly appreciated!
Regards,
Truly Frustrated





RE: Career Road Block
Now is probably not the best time to try to find a new job but for what you want, you need to get out of manufacturing. IMHO.
RE: Career Road Block
We do have an FEA group however that ensures major structural components we manufacture are to spec and wont reach catastrophic failure on the job site.
The problem is integrating myself into that group is impossible right now due to my scope of work (or lack there-of). The tasks I am given are remedial at best and unfortunately, it seems to get a head in this company, you must dedicate 10+ years of your career. The gains are far outweighed by the losses considering what one can achieve in 10+ years of their professional career...
RE: Career Road Block
My issue is that I am not thrilled about having a P.Eng title and having less technical knowledge than more recent graduates coming fresh out of university.
I am a strong believer in the "use it or lose it" mind set and as far as my technical prowess is concerned, I definitely feel as if I am losing it.
RE: Career Road Block
http://braxtonlewis.blogspot.com/
Braxton V. Lewis
Morgantown, WV
RE: Career Road Block
If I learnt anything it was that 'use it or lose it' holds very true. Squeeze yourself into assisting another department doing what you want, invent a new position for yourself (I have seen this done) or leave.
Designer of machine tools - user of modified screws
RE: Career Road Block
Despite occasional efforts I've also done relatively little hard core analytical work as taught at university. I've even discussed goals with managers about wanting to do more/get mentored by someone in the area etc but for reasons not necessarily anyone fault it didn't pan out.
That said, I haven't had an unrewarding career, I've done well at both places I've worked and got some above average raises, relatively early promotions/offers of promotion...
However, it looks like I'm now being pushed into a project management role, which while I don't mind doing a bit of I don't want it to be my main task.
Take every opportunity you get to flex your mental muscles. Maybe on some of the parts you're working on, do some analysis even if it's on your own time. Make sure that management know you'd like to do some more analytical work.
Also, learn to excel at what you are doing. There is potentially a lot of intellectual work to be done on drawing/MBD preparation especially as regards tolerancing and related aspects.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Career Road Block
Tobalcane
"If you avoid failure, you also avoid success."
"Luck is where preparation meets opportunity"
RE: Career Road Block
My first two years of grades were barley a 2.0 - my last two years after taking a year off were much closer to a 3.6.
More than one professor asked me to stay on a get a Masters.....
RE: Career Road Block
RE: Career Road Block
On the flip side of that it is also easy to just sit back and all of a sudden wonder what has happened to the last few years, I have not moved forward. As with most things in life it is all about the balance.
It does seem like there are opportunities within your current employer, even if not immediately. It is probably a good time to try and talk to your manager, HR or however the company is structured and discuss where you are going and where you want to be in a given period of time and what paths might be open to you.
To just leave (even if the opportunity arouse) based on the grass is always greener is seldom a good idea. Try to set achievable goals and targets and work to them, either at your current employer or elsewhere.
RE: Career Road Block
From being with this company for the period I have, I've realized there is a high turn over rate in the office staff. In the last year alone, six people from engineering have quit.
Unfortunately, promotions are few and far between and whenever openings do arise, it seems that management chooses to hire externally before even considering to promote internally (at least in the engineering department)
Regardless, I am going to talk it out with my managers and see if any changes do happen in the near future. As the adage goes, "if the baby doesn't cry, the mother won't feed"...lol.
RE: Career Road Block
Our company does that - but you must apply - or better yet - pre-apply. Tell your manager or HR that you want such and such job and if it opens - will you please consider me.
Works for us.
RE: Career Road Block
RE: Career Road Block
That being said, I feel the hurdles in all my interviews have been when it comes to experience related questions. I got an interview at a dream company which I fought tooth and nail to even get. Despite my best efforts however, when questions like "what kind of calculations have you done" or "what analysis did you conduct" arise, I have no honest answer.
Now one may clearly say it is my fault for not branching out on my own to do the analysis. I am guilty of that to an extent however I don't agree that I am solely responsible. The environment I work in is largely based on putting out Engineering Change Requests. The volume and speed in which an ECR gets completed is what matters, not necessarily the content or even the quality.
Since that interview I have done a CFD analysis on an exhaust system (right or wrong I can't comment since it was my first time doing one to get an idea of pressure differentials within the system). This was done on my own time and submitted to my managers who could have cared less. More recently, I did a quick FEA using COSMOS (also on my time) on a steel beam with altering geometry to verify which geometry would be the most beneficial. That data too was discarded completely.
One can only imagine the frustration that surmounts when continuous efforts to show ambition go undetected. I have lost all motivation to even do my job to the best of my ability.
Anyways, enough of my sob story. I have no one to blame but myself for letting myself down academically. Despite the low paying nature of my job, I see so much potential within the company in areas I can truly make our product better. It's just difficult to stay motivated in an environment that seems to crush all efforts of ambition.
RE: Career Road Block
The thing you should carry in the front of your mind is that what you learn in college cannot equip you with all the knowledge you need for the next 40 years.
It is also a mistake to think that what you learned and forgot cannot be relearned. If you need it and need to relearn it you will learn it better where there is a need to know and you will retain it far better.
What you should have brought from college is attitude and discipline. Learning and thinking skills is what college can give you and the self-knowledge that you can learn.
Most everything else will quickly be out of date if it isn't already.
Most of what you do you will be learning as you go.
What you should have is a willingness and self confidence to tackle new and challenging tasks for which there is no prior knowledge. You have to learn and innovate as you go.
Once you get established you will find that you are being called on to solve problems using your brain, not simply look it up to see how everyone else did it, though there will be much that is like that.
This is when, in any field, it gets satisfying, when you find solutions no one else has found; especially satisfying if everyone else says it can't be done and you do it.
But don't expect this straight from college. You may need to work a good few years before anyone trusts you on leading edge stuff.
The workplace should be about as current as it gets (unless your company still makes buggy whips using 100 year old methods that no one dare change).
I would expect that there is no one in these forums who left education fully equipped for the outside world and never had to learn another thing.
I expect most forgot a lot of what they learned and never used it or had a use for it.
What you need is ability not a "sealed for life" knowledge pack issued to new grads.
Oh yes, and if you've been dumped into a boring routine unchallenging job, its your responsibility to (a) do it well and (b) demonstrate ambition to get out of there.
Its a filter.
It sorts out those with some life from the 9-5 no drive types.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Career Road Block
I took everyone's advice to heart and sat down with our vehicle engineer here to have a little heart to heart.
I told him specifically I understood that my current position entailed only so much responsibility and that I was looking to integrate myself more into the calculation side of things. I made it very clear this could be done on my own time and that I had no problem coming in early, or staying after work later to be able to learn and gain useful experience doing even basic hand calcs where necessary.
The response I got was less than ideal. I basically got the old "we don't have anything you can do right now but I'll keep you in mind".
I think at this point its time I start to organize myself and what I've done better and start revamping my resume to reflect any little achievements I have gained through this job.
I'm going to stick it out till the holiday season to see if there is any positive change but from the reaction and body language, it seems as though my request fell on deaf ears.
On a positive note, I do feel better for have verbalizing it though!
Thanks again to everyone for their valuable insight.
RE: Career Road Block
These are tough economic times and you cannot just magic jobs out of thin air and generally speaking employees need to generate income for the employer.
By all means explore other avenues but always do the best job you can in whatever position you are in, it will get you noticed.
RE: Career Road Block
RE: Career Road Block
You don't necessarily need to work on new projects to learn and get a feel for what is possible.
You could ask that he give you the starting point for some previously completed projects.
Then you can do all the calculation you like. You can try out different ideas and then test them against the way it was actually done.
Differences will be interesting. Not wrong, interesting because there will be a lot of decisions made which could go either way engineering wise, but which are influenced by external factors.
Since this will be work done on your own time, they have nothing to lose and nothing to risk.
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Career Road Block
The OP has already stated that he has done work in his own time and submitted it to his boss, who was not interested. If he had of been it would have involved either reviewing it himself and giving feed back or giving it to another engineer to do the same, this would cost the company time and money, so they would lose.
It could always be argued that the short term loss would be outweighed by the long term gain, but that always has to be balanced against other variables.
Bigtomhanks is spot on when he says "Your employment is based on a condition that you will perform work that the company chooses that you do to earn a profit, not based on what you want to do based on your personal interest."
All any employee can do is convince those who make the decisions that they are hard working, diligent and the right person to push forward, or of course they have the option of leaving.
RE: Career Road Block
JMW
www.ViscoAnalyser.com
RE: Career Road Block
Why not pick up on that conversation over the water cooler about 'modifying XY widget like this might be really good but I don't think we have anyone to look at it/it's not a priority' or similar?
I've done it, though I have to warn you that it doesn't always work out.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Career Road Block
Further more, a suggestion that is over-heard and may be implemented in design often has a lot of other facets of the design and constraints of that design not explicitly stated during an informal conversation. It would be difficult to pick up work by ear shot and present ideas when your opinion is not asked for (this is especially true in my company).
I've decided to go through past EAR's (Engineering Analysis Reports) that are filed on our system. The engineers who wrote them have calculations that can be followed and I figure if I take home even a couple a week and review, then I will start learning some of the issues that were solved in the past and how those problems were analyzed and attacked successfully.
The reality is that I have a lot of ambition but not a lot of experience and I do have to buckle down no matter how tedious the remedial tasks are and just do them. At the very least, when it comes time for my formal evaluation, I will have gained some credibility to my name and have some sort of arguments as to why I should be given a chance to do more.
RE: Career Road Block
At some point though, doing something directly productive on your own initiative may be beneficial - or of course if you have missed some critical constraints etc. like you imply above could backfire.
That's why I said it doesn't always work out - for instance my Papier-mâché nose cone for a certain expendable piece of military kit never caught on, despite my home made mock up.
What is Engineering anyway: FAQ1088-1484: In layman terms, what is "engineering"?
RE: Career Road Block
I worked with a non-degreed maintenance hand that hadn't worked towards anything but a medical retirement in years and years and years. He was severely obese and tried to pawn his work off on anyone he could. He almost messed up a couple of my jobs horribly, which I didn't appreciate.
Management did nothing with him and knew his goal, i.e., medical retirement. I talked to him to let him know what he'd almost done to my projects and what my expectations were. In that discussion, I learned he'd essentially Retired In Place because he felt the company had overlooked, shafted, and abused him for not promoting him to an engineering position. He felt he had the requisite knowledge, ability, and drive for it. He had the first two and lacked the third one, obviously.
I believe that is what management saw as the defining difference between the two men. We all make agreements with employers to give them an honest day's work in exchange for their money and benefits. The agreement goes no further than that.
I am not accusing you of having no drive. I'm warning you to not come across that way to your supervisors and peers. They are looking and they do notice. Give them an honest day's work in exchange for their money and benefits.
Most engineers have a lot to learn about how a company operates, engineering, business practices, standards, etc. upon graduation.
Keep up the attitude and be your best each day. You'll feel better about yourself!
RE: Career Road Block
Lacajun - You are absolutely correct in your view point and I will be the first to say that I have already fallen into the "second" individuals category.
The issue was that I started with such a low pay grade that hardly justified the title and job I was doing and I was never bumped up to an appropriate pay grade when I was given actual design work. When I did get my promotion to Designer 2, it was as if my increase was given just keep me going in the job rather than being a valid reward for my efforts. The company is structured such that Engineering seems to be on a much lower (or tighter) pay grade than the rest of the departments housed within.
The salary combined with the lack of exciting work has really had its toll on my moral (and I think a lot of others within engineering as well).
I am however trying to change my attitude and give my best every day ever since starting this thread. It just seems like it is incredibly hard to stay optimistic and as a result, focused, under these working environments.
RE: Career Road Block
RE: Career Road Block
Your spouse will know first, just based on how bad your behavior is with him or her, before you are conscious that there is an issue.
Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA
RE: Career Road Block