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Piping Software with multi-functionality, doesn't exist?

Piping Software with multi-functionality, doesn't exist?

Piping Software with multi-functionality, doesn't exist?

(OP)
Hi,
I've been searching for piping software for several months now and don't understand why the software I would like doesn't seem to exist.

Functionality I want:
-Easily create isometrics
-Produce BoM
-Pipe flow design (produce system curve, etc)
-Nice to have: input our fluid service/pipe specs for material/gasket/valve/etc selection

What I've found:
I can find software that does EITHER pipe flow OR isometric, but not both.  Am I out of luck?  

Thanks for your time,
Mike

RE: Piping Software with multi-functionality, doesn't exist?

How much money have you got?
 

Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: Piping Software with multi-functionality, doesn't exist?

(OP)
It depends on how well it meets the criterion.  A 'perfect' program as defined by my needs, to start I'd say $2-5000. Am I out to lunch here? If I had some solutions to try/review it would be easier to put a value on it.

I should also mention that we have Autodesk mechanical and Inventor already.  I've briefly looked into using AutoPlant 3D and Autodesk Simulator but haven't been sold on it yet.  Mainly I just haven't spoke to someone who used it for these purposes.

Mike

RE: Piping Software with multi-functionality, doesn't exist?

CAD packages can do a lot of things with amazing speed, _provided_ that you are willing to accept the output they produce, and to work in the exact way that their designers and programmers imagined that you should work.  Those people know little of your world, or of mine.

Solidworks can do BOM and 3D piping layouts and fluid calculations.  I don't think it can do isometrics in the usual sense for piping, certainly not 'easily'.  
The barebones version includes just enough fluids capability to show that it's possible, but not enough to do real work; for that, you need an add-on that costs more than your budget.


 

Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: Piping Software with multi-functionality, doesn't exist?

(OP)
Yes, I can't imagine adding a whole new CAD platform to our company just to do some piping. Is what I ask for that unique? For brown field projects at our processing mill it would save a lot of time. The software is all out there I just would like it as one package.  

For now I'll have to take this as the reason why:
"Those people know little of your world, or of mine."  

RE: Piping Software with multi-functionality, doesn't exist?

Take a look at CADWorxx which is an add in for AutoCAD.  Does piping bearutifully.  Doesn't do hydraulic modelling.  I've looked at pretty much every package currently on the market for hydraulic modeling and I haven't found one that I would trust for a design task.

David

RE: Piping Software with multi-functionality, doesn't exist?

Hydraulics:  search for EPAnet to do steady state liquids.  Its a free program.  Does that fit your budget.

We will design everything from now on using only S.I. units ... except for the pipe diameter.  Unk. British engineer

RE: Piping Software with multi-functionality, doesn't exist?

Sometimes you need a hammer, sometimes a wrench...

These tools exist independently because a combination impairs the operation of each.

have you ever tried using a "swiss army knife" as a screwdriver ?

   

RE: Piping Software with multi-functionality, doesn't exist?

(OP)
MJ - Not being a software engineer, this is the part that confuses me.  I see hydraulic design software that the piping network is a 2D representation, and it doesn't 'seem' like it would be too far fetched to have the represenatation in isometric form instead, with dimensions shown and printable.  Also, the hydraulic design software has a list of pipes, fittings, valves, etc it looks 'almost' like a BoM, it has the right information but with a few tweaks it would be the same.

 

RE: Piping Software with multi-functionality, doesn't exist?

I suspect that it is rather rare that one person would want to use both hydraulic design software and mechanical/drafting software. In big design companies these two functions are separated, and therefore there is not much demand for a software suite that would encompass both.

It is only the specialist smaller consultancies where the same person would be responsible for both the hydraulic and mechanical aspects of the piping design. I personally believe that you will get the best design when the same person does both, because the hydraulics can impact on the mechanical design, and vice versa. Often this feedback between the functions is missing or weak in a large company where the functions are separated.

These specialist consultancies will want the best software for each function and MJCronin has captured their probable attitude with his "swiss army knife" comment. And for the big companies there is no demand for them to be combined because they are used by different people.

Katmar Software - Engineering & Risk Analysis Software
http://katmarsoftware.com

"An undefined problem has an infinite number of solutions"

RE: Piping Software with multi-functionality, doesn't exist?

You can get iso-based hydraulics it but it costs more money and doesn't make that much difference to the analysis.  Just isn't a genuine need for it I guess.  Too much goo in the way and you can't see the forest for the trees.  I myself need hydraulic analysis, but don't have any need or interest in, or for, iso-modeling myself.

We will design everything from now on using only S.I. units ... except for the pipe diameter.  Unk. British engineer

RE: Piping Software with multi-functionality, doesn't exist?

A few years ago I approached a half dozen hydraulic software vendors with the idea of importing a shape file from a geographical information system.  They all said "there is no market for that" meaning "we never thought of that so it must be useless".  

Every single time I've started a new model since about 1998, I've built the pipe layouts in ArcView to honor terrain, rivers, highways, etc. then got my lengths from the query feature in ArcView.  It is by far the easiest way to build a gathering system model, but the hydraulic guys think that a map is an imposition.

If they can't get their heads around a map, then it is unlikely that they'll be able to see the benefit of a link to CAD.

David

RE: Piping Software with multi-functionality, doesn't exist?

Oh I didn't say I don't use GIS.  In fact I've just made an Excel to kmz file writer so that I can draw the pipeline route in Google Earth.  It is very convenient, since GE is freely available to anybody who's interested in the routes, without all the overhead that goes along with the usual pipeline GIS programs.  I just send them the kmz and thier immediately informed of the latest updates.  It also makes for some nice presentations.  I update progress along the RoW, using appropriate icons for clearing, RoW prep, profiling, stringing, bending, welding, lowering, backfill, testing and cleanup.  With GE and coordinates in latitude and longitude, you also don't have to deal with the "no connects" you experience with the missmatches when crossing UTM boundaries.     

We will design everything from now on using only S.I. units ... except for the pipe diameter.  Unk. British engineer

RE: Piping Software with multi-functionality, doesn't exist?

I've been struggling with this for a while now.  For whatever reason there just isn't an elegant software solution out there that can handle all aspects piping/plant layouts.  I'd like to see a piece of software that I can start with a P&ID, import that into the mechanical module, have the mechanical module reference the P&ID and auto-populate an assembly with library components (valves, vessels, etc), then I can position them and run the piping/wiring where it needs to go.  Generation of ISOs and some FEA would be nice, too.  I have a hard time believing there aren't more efficient ways to do this than jumping between multiple softwares.

Dan

www.eltronresearch.com
Dan's Blog

RE: Piping Software with multi-functionality, doesn't exist?

That sounds useful.  I started doing similiar stuff in 1993 and GE wasn't even in anyone's list of future projects.  The UTM boundary problem seems to be a lot smaller than it was 10 years ago (when it was a major pain on any project that approached a UTM boundary), I haven't even thought about it in 3 years.

But you see what I mean?  I've got my system laid out in some GIS and I want to dump it to a pipeline model, make any pipe size/material modifications and dump the final model back into GIS.  The modeling guys thought that was stupid.

David

RE: Piping Software with multi-functionality, doesn't exist?

(OP)
The piping work I do is typically brown field or small green field projects within an existing processing mill.  When it comes time to design, the layout, pipe sizing, hydraulic design, material selection and procurement all happen within a few days typically.  Currently these are all done separately and you can see how it could be streamlined.  

Eltron - Have you looked at Intergaph? They might have something for you.

RE: Piping Software with multi-functionality, doesn't exist?

Worse, if its a small project, there isn't enough money in it.  Large systems have too many independent pipe systems, some probably not even needing hydraulic, or stress analysis, so that would be overkill.  

zdas,  Its relatively easy to write VBA programs to translate files back and forth, if you have the file specs. In fact that's what I did.  Google Earth (*.kmz) -> <- input modifications in Excel spreadsheet -> <-Stoner Pipeline Simulator.

If your pipeline is long, it now fits the curved Earth on a great circle track.  The Earth is no longer FLAT!

We will design everything from now on using only S.I. units ... except for the pipe diameter.  Unk. British engineer

RE: Piping Software with multi-functionality, doesn't exist?

I live in the Rockies, nothing is ever flat.

David

RE: Piping Software with multi-functionality, doesn't exist?

Sounds like a good place for ... tires.

We will design everything from now on using only S.I. units ... except for the pipe diameter.  Unk. British engineer

RE: Piping Software with multi-functionality, doesn't exist?

I did look at Intergraph.  Pretty expensive for what you get, and it doesn't cover all of the bases.

Dan

www.eltronresearch.com
Dan's Blog

RE: Piping Software with multi-functionality, doesn't exist?

Eato,

""Yes, I can't imagine adding a whole new CAD platform to our company just to do some piping. Is what I ask for that unique?""
that's what You said, do you think you can simplify piping?
I would suggest you buy Autoplant as add-in to Autocad.
With ísogen you can generate isometrics with material,
when you have the right pipespecs of course.

Greetings.

 

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