expansion joint between wall and surface bed? really needed?
expansion joint between wall and surface bed? really needed?
(OP)
Hallo
In the books you find every time the same detail. Between the wall and the surface bed you should have the expansion joint. Here in South Africa it is 12mm.
It is a problem because it must be sealed and 12mm is somehow to much. ants could also come through this joint into the building
when you cast concrete just against the wall, the concrete will shrank anyway and you get a small joint anyway there.
What is your experience with this detail? See attached PDF
BauTomTom
In the books you find every time the same detail. Between the wall and the surface bed you should have the expansion joint. Here in South Africa it is 12mm.
It is a problem because it must be sealed and 12mm is somehow to much. ants could also come through this joint into the building
when you cast concrete just against the wall, the concrete will shrank anyway and you get a small joint anyway there.
What is your experience with this detail? See attached PDF
BauTomTom






RE: expansion joint between wall and surface bed? really needed?
RE: expansion joint between wall and surface bed? really needed?
The most common method used for this is to fasten a strip of asphalt impregnated fiberboard to the wall, and place the concrete up to the strip. That will prevent bonding to the wall.
RE: expansion joint between wall and surface bed? really needed?
I agree, just a bond break which comes by a but joint actually automatically. Ok the Idea of the vapor barrier just to pull it up would be also good.
Are you not taking the vapor barrier then into the wall?
-- to Ron –
Is a isolation joint not the same as a expansion joint? Hhmm ok bit different, you are right.
But to allow different settlements is not really such an huge joint of 12mm needed, or?
The solution from OhioMatt is alright or?
BauTomTom
RE: expansion joint between wall and surface bed? really needed?
As others have said, turn up the plast or use a bond breaker. 12mm is too high in my opinion.
RE: expansion joint between wall and surface bed? really needed?
I don't see a reason for a wide expansion joint at this location.
RE: expansion joint between wall and surface bed? really needed?
So now for me is clear
NO EXPENSION JOINT at this spot, only a bond breaker, but even this one is probably not even needed.
Thanks a lot guys
BauTomTom
RE: expansion joint between wall and surface bed? really needed?
BTW, is there anything better than that crap asphalt impregnated fiber?? I have used that stuff 100's of times and I still think it is garbage. When used out doors it lasts about two years.
Is there a good material it can be replaced with after a few years?
I used it between my driveway and garage slab and the driveway slab heaves a little in the winter. I'd like to replace it. Any ideas?
RE: expansion joint between wall and surface bed? really needed?
Although none of that is really necessary unless you have water or vapor issues from below. If all dry, paint the wall with a little form release and move on.
The only advantage to the fiberboard is that is can act as a screed point.
RE: expansion joint between wall and surface bed? really needed?
What do you think about the conditions I have outside?
If I tear out the fiberboard and replace with a Sika flowable sealer, what's going to happen when the concrete heaves?
RE: expansion joint between wall and surface bed? really needed?
Keep the sealant thickness over the backer rod to about 2/3 of the width...that pretty much guarantees more bond area at the sides than cross section in the center of the joint, so the sealant will stretch (vertically or horizontally) before breaking the side bond.
RE: expansion joint between wall and surface bed? really needed?
RE: expansion joint between wall and surface bed? really needed?
Here is info for Emseal...
http://w
RE: expansion joint between wall and surface bed? really needed?
Toad gets that much heave only after his garage parties.
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
RE: expansion joint between wall and surface bed? really needed?
The better solution to his issue would be to move somewhere that doesn't have frost heave!
RE: expansion joint between wall and surface bed? really needed?
RE: expansion joint between wall and surface bed? really needed?
If you have a nice rectangular building this shouldn't be an issue though...
RE: expansion joint between wall and surface bed? really needed?
I know I am just a dumb former nail bender (as few here love to point out) but I tried everything I could to mitigate the heaving with proper fill and drainage.
It apparently didn't work.
RE: expansion joint between wall and surface bed? really needed?
Don't mean to hijack the OP's thread, but a related question that I think the OP will appreciate. I have done this joint many times without the expansion joint as everyone suggest, but all my previous supervisors and probably my current one would ask me to provide a dowel into the CMU or concrete wall. ToadJones brings up point that I think about often, but fortunately have not had problems with yet, regarding "...cracking caused by the slab settling and getting hung up on the wall."
When do you dowel into the wall and when don't you? Not only for interior basement type slabs but even for a concrete walkway around the perimeter of a building or where a residential driveway butts into a driveway slab? Everyone who suggests to me about doweling into an adjacent wall or slab talks about preventing differential settlement, but what about cracking in the slab that is settling? Isn't that worse?
RE: expansion joint between wall and surface bed? really needed?
The joint either has to accommodate the full movement or you have to resign yourself to yearly maintenance on the joint....even the full movement approach will require attential periodically.