motorcycle tyres
motorcycle tyres
(OP)
i am looking for more info than the manufacturers give about the performance of motorcycle tyres
e.g. what testing is required ,what info can the customer ask for ?
etc
unfortunately i am not a mechanical engineer - electronics- but am a quick learner can anyone point me in a direction to start - there appears to be very little testing required for a tyre to be legally sold
many thanks in advance
phil
e.g. what testing is required ,what info can the customer ask for ?
etc
unfortunately i am not a mechanical engineer - electronics- but am a quick learner can anyone point me in a direction to start - there appears to be very little testing required for a tyre to be legally sold
many thanks in advance
phil





RE: motorcycle tyres
The reason is that the perfromance of the tire is very application specific, so results given for a black round thing (as they are known) in a generic application would not read across very well.
You might be wondering exactly what drives the design of tires, and I must admit that once you get out of OEM fitment I wonder about that myself. I imagine that fleets have a lot of influence.
Cheers
Greg Locock
RE: motorcycle tyres
so how do manufacturers choose a tyre for a bike and why make other tyres which are not oems?
i am getting to the point where i will have to choose another tyre for my bike and would like more info thean 'mine is the best' surely there are some standard tests which will show how stiff the sidewall is or the damping of the tyre etc?
RE: motorcycle tyres
Once I had a tyre vendor who came up with a design and asked us to design the suspension around that.
The reason that people make and sell aftermarket tyres is that by the time you've developed a tyre you might as well sell it even if the original user wasn't interested for whatever reason. Also after market tyres don't have to be as balanced as the OEM tyre, so you may be able to achieve better performance in some attributes at a lower cost than the OEM design.
Also some manufacturers buy the old tools from the OEM guys, and then make that tyre elsewhere for the aftermarket or local use. Some companies do this internally - eg third world tire plants may be using 10 year old assembly lines.
Cheers
Greg Locock
RE: motorcycle tyres
thanks again, so what you are saying is stick to the recommended tyre or try out some others but don't expect improved performance
is it worth getting in touch with the manufacturer to see which came first - the tyre or the bike?
fil
RE: motorcycle tyres
I have owned quite a few motorcycles (except NO Harleys) from 1949 to 1988 (when I stopped riding after at least a million miles) and have had both good and bad tires (obviously). Sticking to the OEM tire is one way of keeping the handling and safety aspect at least equal to what you have (maybe?). In the beginning I did that but, I found that by reading enthusiast mags and observing other riders choices, I was able to get better tires for my applications (cheaper?---Faster?---longer lasting?---whatever!) My personal choice for the safest was the Goodyear 'runflat' tire on my Goldwing. The fastest, best gripping for 'cafe racer' types was Michelin with either Avon or Dunlop (My son swears by Continentals on his BMW) close . The current number of Japanese tires surely must , at least, equal the performance of the Euro tires these days. Competitive markets and the fact that the Japanese have bought out about every body else would indicate to me that they must have comparable tires available. In the vintage racing that I am now involved in just about all the tires are Japanese.
I haven't surrended yet as I am currently looking for a 'deal' on a vintage Norton. When I find what I want I will guarantee it will most probably have the 'best' tire I can find.
---Original Question--- How the heck do you determine what is best? I am going to start reading again and asking local bikers what they use and how they perform for them. I am going to the bike shops and hear what they have to say. I am going to pick from the MAJOR brand names and stay clear of the 'one offs' and 'cheapies'(no WalMart tires for me, thank you very much!) No guarantees I guess but, at least it's a place to start.
Sorry this got a bit 'long winded'.
Rod
RE: motorcycle tyres
1) Each tyre is measured for balance and force variation. The best tyres go to the OEMs for fitment to new cars. This is typically about 1/2 the production.
2) Once a tyre is no longer an OEM part they can change the construction to make it cheaper, but it still looks the same and has the same load and speed rating. This would especially apply to OEM P&A tyres, where the cost reduction pressure is immense.
Pure personal prejudice: Michelin and Yokohama seem to produce consistently high rating designs, for cars. Michelin in particular seem to have a more scientific attitude than anyone else I've worked with, and have, in the past, had some fairly exotic hardware (and test tracks) put together for tyre testing.
Cheers
Greg Locock
RE: motorcycle tyres
Load endurance test
Speed endurance test
plunger test
contact pressure measurement
deflection test
If you want more details on it.PLease ask me
Jeyakumar
R & D
Ceat Ltd
RE: motorcycle tyres
Regards
pat
RE: motorcycle tyres
doesn't this mean that the current information given to the general public is insufficient to make an informed choice.
there is info for race tyres but not road tyres, or do they not release it?
many thanks
fil
RE: motorcycle tyres
Cheers
Greg Locock
RE: motorcycle tyres
Load endurance test - over a short time period does it carry the load?
Speed endurance test - over a short period of time will it deform due to speed?
plunger test - can it be punctured by a standard plunger?
contact pressure measurement - for a given pressure it will create a patch of ?
deflection test - does it deflect if hit from the side?
this means that i could make a tyre of the hardest rubber i could find which would last a lifetime of the bike/car and as long as it passes the test i can sell it!
the tyre wouldn't handle but the customer wouldn't know this until he has purchased it and fitted it.
is this enough testing or does the system need changing?
RE: motorcycle tyres
Since I last posted, I HAVE found that 1948 ex-Bill Young Norton (Four time 1950's Australian Grand Trials champion) and I have mounted my old standby Dunlop K-70 on the rear and an Avon Speedmaster on the front. They are NOT the same as years past but do perform adaquately for my purposes. Emphasis on "MY" !
Caveat emptor !!!
Believe only half of what you see and none of what you hear!
Rod
RE: motorcycle tyres
RE: motorcycle tyres
Rod
RE: motorcycle tyres
RE: motorcycle tyres
On a race car I can see that mixing and matching brands can be useful - worst case is that you'll spin off or roll your car (grin). On the road you don't have room to conduct that sort of experiment.
Running in tyres makes a lot of sense, all the internal plys have to move into their correct position from their as-moulded position.
Cheers
Greg Locock
RE: motorcycle tyres
RE: motorcycle tyres
As to "run in"---If I choose to start a race on "stickers" then I can expect the tire to come to operating temp very quickly and give max performance early. I can also expect the temps to continue rising until the tire overheats and grip "goes away"---a one heat cycle tire, as it will not be very good the next cycle. On the other hand If I go out on a new tire and bring it to temp (4 or 5 laps) and let it cool (known as "scrubbing in") then the same tire will be good for several heat cycles. The number may vary with tire compound and mfgr. but, all will last several sessions with good grip. Most race tires have an "arrow" indicating which way the tire should be mounted but after the first heat cycle it is somewhat common to run them in any position that is advantageous, based on their circumferance and/or wear patterns. Not necessarily condoned by the mfgr, but, none the less, a common practice. ( I have never had a "tread" unpeel, as it were, with bias tires but I don't practice this on MY radials, but some others do.)
The difference in the tires I chose to put on my antique Norton was a combination of need vs availibility. It was necessary to relace the standard 20 inch wheels of 1948(virtually no tires available) with a 19 rear and a 21 front. The tires were a known quantity from previous use in years past combined with the fact that I am now "two days older than dirt" and I ride rather more conservetively. Mixing brands has always been common practice as 'Swall' indicates. Still, I run in the tires as well as brakes just like I have done all my life, just a habit.
Rod
RE: motorcycle tyres
RE: motorcycle tyres
I’m a little late to this thread but since I just found it, I’ll add my two cents.
Regarding passenger vehicle tire testing, there is significantly more testing going on than what has been posted above. Besides the basic government standard tests (BTW, these are about to become much more stringent), there is a myriad of internal testing done by the larger tire companies. These include exhaustive ride & handling, noise and durability testing that can be over 80k miles (tracks) as well as countless laboratory machine tests that test tires well beyond what could be deemed reasonably foreseeable in the real world. These higher standards are not limited to the OEM fitments either, so called “trade” tires get the same treatment before final release, although to a lesser extent depending on the specific market. Speaking from personal experience, when a new trade tire project is launched, it generally develops in the same way an OEM project does with pretty much the same steps in development taken along the way.
As far as motorcycle tires are concerned, I’ve not much first hand testing knowledge although I have seen it done and know it regularly gets done at least by the big guys. If I were to decide today on a new set of bike tires and one of my concerns was whether the product had been thoroughly tested, I’d opt for a brand name tire. If on the other hand I had more time, I’d read the latest bike magazines not just for tire tests but also for long term bike tests to get a better feel.
Cheers
Ramon
RE: motorcycle tyres
thanks for your two cents worth, i am not worried about the ammount of testing carried out but the information available to the end user about the tyre
do you buy a product because it looks pretty? or do you read the label and see what its made of or the tech spec?
where is this info for tyres?
looking in the magazines will give you a riders opinion but a load versus grip for different conditions graph produced by mechanical (non subjective) machinery gives a relative readout!
RE: motorcycle tyres
I'm afraid you'll be in for a long search if you want specifics on tire content. Information such as compounds, curing procedures and most construction specs (other than what is offered on retail literature) is impossible to get for the end user. The same goes for what is commonly referred to as force/moment data. These might be available to an OEM for obvious reasons but the nature of the tire business is much too secretive for it to be available to the public. Most companies have vast resources dedicated to reasearch and development in these areas and are understandably unwilling to make it available for public consumption.
I wish you luck in your search.
Ramon
RE: motorcycle tyres
this is what i'm finding. with the tyre being one of the most important parts of the bike i will just gamble as usual and use my experience to keep me upright!!!!!!
many thanks to all who have posted
fil