×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!
  • Students Click Here

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Jobs

Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?
4

Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

(OP)
I have an assembly with about 15 detail parts.  Each part is an item in Teamcenter and each has it's own detail drawing in the file. The assembly also has it's own individual drawing.

Now, I'm being asked to take all those detail drawings which are standing alone and make them sheets under the assembly drawing.  Essentially the assembly details would be on sheet 1, part 1 details on sheet 2, etc....

Since I've detailed everything already is there an easy way to take all that information and stick it as assembly drawing sheets?   Or, do I need to start over and detail everything again?  If so, how do I go about creating a multi-model drawing?

NX6

Thanks...

--
Fighter Pilot
Manufacturing Engineer

RE: Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

Whatever you do, try to resist doing this as it will have a big impact on the performance of this assembly in the future.  This is a very poor practice, even WORSE than not using the Master Model approach.

If you can't avoid doing this, for whatever reason, make a clone of these parts and modify the cloned copies so that you've always got a clean set of files for future work.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
http://www.siemens.com/plm
http://www.plmworld.com/museum/

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
 

RE: Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

(OP)
John,

I have no way around it.  I'm already being 'schooled' on how I should have been making each individual part as a tool solid in a upper level assembly.  It's not a physically large or complex assembly however.

Old timers here want to see tool drawings a certain way and that's not the way I currently have it.  What I was producing was logical to me and it's what I've done in the past w/ Pro/E.

I have no idea what you are talking about with 'clones'.  Please advise.

Thanks...

 

--
Fighter Pilot
Manufacturing Engineer

RE: Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

Here we also detail components at the assembly level.  They are still (usually) individual components brought into the assembly file which is then (usually) brought into the drawing file.  I have not encountered any problems with this yet.  The problems start snowballing when additional parts are created in the drawing file or in the assembly file (yes, those are "legitimate" and even proscribed workflows here).  Heaven help me through to the end of this contract!

"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - Robert Hunter
 

RE: Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

As to the original question, I don't know of any easy method to move the detailed views into the assembly drawing.  Sorry.

"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - Robert Hunter
 

RE: Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

While we may come to rue the day winky smile starting with the next version of NX, we are actually providing a scheme to perform a 'copy & paste' of entire drawing sheets from one file to another, so it will now be fairly easy, once all of your detail parts have been modeled and drawing created from them (even if you've faithfully followed Master Model techniques), to collect them all together into a single part file.  This is being provided in support of a traditional workflow for an industry segment which we are starting to seriously go after and for which we have started to add new functionality and capability which supports some of their specific workflows.

As for my comment about 'cloning', I was simply suggesting that perhaps you first copy your original assembly so that whatever you ended up doing to it, you's always have a clean copy to fall back on for future work.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
http://www.siemens.com/plm
http://www.plmworld.com/museum/

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
 

RE: Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

The only shortcut maybe to save the individual views of the components as DXF files and import them into the additional sheets of the assembly.

John's clone would be to make a copy of your current files, at least the assembly one, and use that for this requirement. This will leave your original work alone, yet provide drawings the way you have been instructed to do them.

I tried to convince our tool designers to do the detailing of the components in individual files and they always protested saying tool design has "always been done this way". They obviously made some changes as they don't work with stone and chisel anymore!
 

"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."

Ben Loosli

RE: Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

(OP)
I think Ben and I unknowingly work for the same company.   Checking company directory.......No, we do not.

I can do the detail drawings, again, and then wipe out the detail drawing under the individual part so I don't have multiple drawings running around.  Doesn't make much sense to me but I'm trying to get something made and these are the hoops I'll have to jump thru to get that accomplished.  Personally, when I want to see a part drawing I want to pull up the part, not some big donkey assembly.  I also got slammed for using parts lists and autoballoon on my assembly drawing.  Apparently I'm just supposed to create this manually and keep it updated manually.

Now, I've added another sheet to my drawing and want to detail the first part.  I added a base view and selected the part from the list.  However, there is nothing in the view box after I place the view.   I don't think it should do that so I must be doing something wrong.  Assistance please?

 

--
Fighter Pilot
Manufacturing Engineer

RE: Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

If you've been using layers, make sure that all your files have the same layers visible.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
http://www.siemens.com/plm
http://www.plmworld.com/museum/

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
 

RE: Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

(OP)
John,

I'm attempting to use layers w/o really understanding them (more corporate rules).  I just set all layers on in my assembly and tried to place the part view again.  Same result...no part, just an outline.

--
Fighter Pilot
Manufacturing Engineer

RE: Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

The parts list/smart balloons practice is another thing not to be used here.
Let me guess... reference sets instead of arrangements?

"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - Robert Hunter
 

RE: Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

(OP)
John,

I went back and verified all the parts had the same layer turned on in each.  Still no model shows in the new view on the next sheet.   

--
Fighter Pilot
Manufacturing Engineer

RE: Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

Try setting all the Reference Sets to 'Entire Part' and see if anything shows up.  If it does, it sounds like you have a Reference Set problem.

John R. Baker, P.E.
Product 'Evangelist'
Product Design Solutions
Siemens PLM Software Inc.
Industry Sector
Cypress, CA
http://www.siemens.com/plm
http://www.plmworld.com/museum/

To an Engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.
 

RE: Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

Curious if you guys who are complaining about the way tooling prints are formatted have ever worked for any length of time as a toolmaker? I do tooling design, drafting, and frequently walk out in the shop and build my own designs in the company of a half dozen aerospace toolmakers with more than 200 years cumulative experience between them.

There is a very definite style to the way tooling prints are formatted in the aerospace industry. It is very consistent across many major corporations. It is done that way for efficiency on the shop floor, not because it is traditional.

 When you have a situation where one individual toolmaker is responsible for making every one of 100+ parts in a complex assembly it is highly inefficient to work on one part at a time. You group your work and process many of parts through in parallel. A good tooling designer will understand how the toolmaker will likely want to group their work and will lay the sheets out with that group of details all on the same sheet. That way the toolmaker can have a single c-size sheet on the bench and work on 6 or 8 parts at once in parallel without ever having to flip the page. This saves an incredible amount of time and also makes it very easy for the lead tool maker to delegate work to others.

One person might be put in charge of building the structure of the tool while another is given responsibility for all of the hardened details or some other logical division of labor. The tool designer will understand these dynamics and lay out the print with this in mind.

I would strongly encourage those of you who are being asked to design in this way to spend some time with the tooling team who will be using your prints. I think you will find their input to be incredibly valuable. They are the our customers, after all. These prints need to work for them. File management issues take a back seat.

Hope these comments are helpful.

RE: Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

I do understand the way toolmakers work. My contention where I used to work was that we would have 4 to 6 details on one E-size sheet and 10-15 sheets per tool. Put each detail on a C or even B size sheet with only the assembly on E-size. Each part is individually detailed. the toolmaker can layout the ones he is working on easier. When each piece is finished, the piece and drawing can go to QC for inspection, then on to assembly.

With the company I worked for replacing prints on the floor with LCD screens, having a single piece part on the screen would be easier. It would also fit in with the data management systems that corporate was dictating we all use.

While tradition is good, sometimes change is required for improvement. Not to get into issues of age, but traditionally the toolmakers where the older, more experienced machinists and the ones who would moan the loadest at any changes. To set the record straight, I am 59 and been in various manufacturing industries for almost 40 years. I have seen a lot of change over that time.
 

"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."

Ben Loosli

RE: Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

OK, who is complaining about tooling drawing format?
I have no complaints about the use of multi-detail assembly drawings, and have created many such drawings.  What I am complaining about are the poor, short-sighted methods often used to create such.

"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - Robert Hunter
 

RE: Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

Ben,

I would like to continue this conversation but think it is off-topic for this forum. Is there another forum we could move this to if you have an interest?

-Jeff

RE: Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

Ewh,

My comments were directed at the idea that drafting for each detail should reside in individual drafting files, not in a single file that contains drafting for the assembly and all details. My intent was to express my feeling that the toolmaking process is often very different than other types of production and because of the way toolmakers work multi-detail drawings are very functional. I believe having each detail on a separate page, or in a separate file, would not work well for this application.  

RE: Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

Ben,

I agree that E-size is too big. Even for the full assembly I have rarely found it necessary to go that big. All toolmakers have access to computers with NX installed so can open and interrogate the model if necessary. Generally I would say that this has not led to greater efficiency. The most efficient work happens when the toolmaker has a high quality print tacked up right at the machine and can work without referencing anything else. We do have LCD screens at our CNC mills and I think everyone has come to the conclusion that they work faster from the paper.

RE: Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

(OP)
JohnRBaker's view was this technique would slow down the performance of the assembly but others have chimed in saying the performance aspect is nothing to worry about.  

Personally I don't see an issue using multi-detail drawings vs. many drawings, even from the viewpoint of the toolmaker. Parts are parts.  Sometimes processes ("we've always done it this way") continue because there aren't enough people in the value chain who are willing to take a stand and show that the ENTIRE process is shorter by doing it a different way.

 

--
Fighter Pilot
Manufacturing Engineer

RE: Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

DaSalo,
That is interesting about efficiency.  Does this include not having a model to work from but only the drawing?

"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - Robert Hunter
 

RE: Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

(OP)
JohnRBaker said on 22 Jul 11 20:03

"Try setting all the Reference Sets to 'Entire Part' and see if anything shows up.  If it does, it sounds like you have a Reference Set problem."

I set everything to "Entire Part" and tried to place a base view of a new model.  Result was the same, no object appears in the view.

--
Fighter Pilot
Manufacturing Engineer

RE: Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

(OP)
John,

Forgot to add (and there is no way to edit previous) but this behavior does not occur on every part.  My 'standard parts" i.e. parts I did not design, and the top level assembly, will appear if I select them to create a base view.   

--
Fighter Pilot
Manufacturing Engineer

RE: Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

There is always the trade off of size of drawing versus drawing view scale. E-size drawing and views at 1:4 or C-size drawing and views at 1:8. Scaled down to a B-size printer copy, they both read about the same.

Jeff, not sure what other forum in Eng-Tips would be appropriate. My experience with the tool designers and their drawings was years ago. That company has since moved from using UG/NX as their primary CAD tool for 18 years to Wildfire for 5 years and then sold by the corporate parent and have since switched to CATIA V5.
 

"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."

Ben Loosli

RE: Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

(OP)
JohnRBaker,

There are a couple of questions up there for you.  Probably got lost in the thread.  They are:

"Try setting all the Reference Sets to 'Entire Part' and see if anything shows up.  If it does, it sounds like you have a Reference Set problem."

I set everything to "Entire Part" and tried to place a base view of a new model.  Result was the same, no object appears in the view. Also, this behavior does not occur on every part.  My 'standard parts' i.e. parts I did not design, and the top level assembly, will appear if I select them to create a base view.     

--
Fighter Pilot
Manufacturing Engineer

RE: Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

Quote:

I set everything to "Entire Part" and tried to place a base view of a new model.
Are you adding a view of a model which is not a component/sub-component of the drawing?

"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - Robert Hunter
 

RE: Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

(OP)
ewh,

No, the item is already in the assembly.  I've put the assembly drawing on sheet 1 and now want to put the detail parts of the assembly on sheet 2 thru xx.

--
Fighter Pilot
Manufacturing Engineer

RE: Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

It still sounds to me like a layer visibility problem as John suggested earlier. Are all layers in the assembly and all layers in the components that contain solids set to visible? Are all objects unblanked (shown)? Does anything happen if you place a view and then use the "Layer Visible in View" tool to reset to global (button at bottom of window)? If all of your layers were already visible that shouldn't have any effect but if the view was placed with some layers invisible that will make everything show up.

RE: Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

(OP)
Never in my life have I had what seemed to be the simplest of tasks turn out to be such a cluster.  I think all my problems listed above to this point have been traced back to layers and reference sets, but I'm not certain.

Now a new issue/question.

I added sheet 2 to my assembly drawing and then inserted a base view of the component (det-1) of my assembly (a01) I want to start detailing. Why when I add the view of det-1 does it add another det-1 component into my assembly navigator?  I don't want to add another component, I just want to detail what is already there.

I'm attaching an image of the structure.

  

--
Fighter Pilot
Manufacturing Engineer

RE: Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

See my post 26 Jul 11 15:39

What I was trying to refer to was not selecting a part different from the drawing file when defining which view you need to place.  As long as you accept the default file (the work file), no new parts should be added.  The view will be of whatever is in the modeling side of your drawing, not a different part file.  I have known users who detail parts by taking views directly from those parts instead of the drawing model, but have always found those difficult to work with.
Is this what is happening?  
 

"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - Robert Hunter
 

RE: Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

For your det-1 view on sheet 2, add the assembly view to the sheet 2 drawing view. Now use visible-in-view and turn off all layers except that layer which contains det-1. This assumes that your details are placed on separate layers in the assembly or that you brought them into the assembly on their original layer and each model has the solid on a different layer.
 

"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."

Ben Loosli

RE: Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

(OP)
ewh,

Maybe I'm lost with the terminology.  You asked previsously;

"Are you adding a view of a model which is not a component/sub-component of the drawing? "

and I responded;

"No, the item is already in the assembly.  I've put the assembly drawing on sheet 1 and now want to put the detail parts of the assembly on sheet 2 thru xx. "

See my attachment from my 28 Jul 11 9:30 post today?  That is what I see in my assembly navigator.  When I select Insert/View/Base View I'm presented with a dialog where it says "Loaded Parts".  I just select the det-1 part as the one I want to detail. That's when it adds the duplicate item to the navigator but puts what looks like drawing sheet next to it.

--
Fighter Pilot
Manufacturing Engineer

RE: Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

Yes, that is what I was alluding to... I  apologize at my poor explanation and more so at my misleading/incomplete response of 26 Jul 11 15:39.
Try Ben's advice, segregating the parts by layers, and adding views only from the current work part (the drawing file).

"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - Robert Hunter
 

RE: Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

(OP)
Ben,

There is no layer which contains det-1, or any other part for that matter.    

Didn't/don't you run Pro/E if I remember right?  Think how you would do it in Pro/E, that's where my mind is w/r/t doing drawings.

For the most part I don't use layers in UG.  Never used them in Pro/E either.  Never saw a reason to do so.   

--
Fighter Pilot
Manufacturing Engineer

RE: Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

I used UG from V3 to NX4. Started with Pro/E at 2001 and am on WF4 now, with WF5 and Creo loaded for evaluation.

What you have to do is think in NX terms, not Pro/E terms. Hard, but the two systems think differently. In one of my training classes for Pro/E was a couple of others who were coming from UG. Every thing they asked was in UG terms and the instructor had a hard time explaining it. About Wednesday when the instructor was out of the room, I told them that they just had to learn to think differently and gave them some quick differences that they could grasp. The rest of the week went easier.

I never use layers in Pro/E but found them very useful in UG/NX. OK, maybe never is too strong as we do have layers setup in our files but I never mess with them.

Your part MUST reside on some layer in NX! In the component file for det-1, the solid was created on a layer, which one? Was det-1 brought into the assembly on the original layer (from the det-1 file) or on the work layer?

As to the view of a detail component in WF, I would switch Drawing Model and then add a new view.
In NX, you add the view and then hide the other components that you don't want to see in that view. Multiple methods to do this in NX: Exploded views requires view setup), Visible-in-View and layer settings and Hide Component in View. There maybe others.

One of the things complicating your drawing is that you have the drawing in the same file as the assembly. In Pro/E you had two separate files, an .asm and a .drw. Changing to a different model for a drawing view didn't add the component again to the assembly file.

Your company really does need to rethink the all-in-one file strategy and use Master Model. It will simplify things a lot!



 

"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."

Ben Loosli

RE: Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

Ben beat me to it.  All good advice.

"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - Robert Hunter
 

RE: Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

(OP)
Started on Pro/E version 14 stayed there as machine tool designer/CAD Admin until 2001.  Many, many models created in Pro/E, learning it was never this hard.

It appears det-1 is on layer 3.  In fact, all of the parts in this assembly are on layer 3 which right now is the work layer. (Keep in mind I'm not that familiar with layers but this is what I think I see.)

I need to do something w/ this because when I add a base view of an existing component it also adds to my quantity of parts when I look at the structure in Teamcenter.  I can't have that as it would be confusing to others.

So it appears the way to fix this is to move each component to it's own layer (rename the layer for ease of identification I assume) and then use the visible in layer functionality.

That's seems so, so stupid and such a waste of time.  Now I not only have to manage my structure as I add/remove components I need to manage my layers?

It's pointless for me to try to change things here w/r/t UG.  We made it and if you understand that statement, you know where I work then.

--
Fighter Pilot
Manufacturing Engineer

RE: Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

Quote:

We made it
Got away from you, heh? winky smile
If you are taking views from the drawing model file and not the individual part files, the structure should not change.

"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - Robert Hunter
 

RE: Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

Well your company may have owned it for a while, but it was made before that. If they own it now, then that is a different story.

You will need to separate the components onto individual layers in the assembly file and use ViV to get your details showing in their respective views.

The reason you are geting duplicate items in TC is because you are ading the model to your assembly for the detail view which is being done in your Assembly file. Move the drawing to a separate file and this won't happen.
 

"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."

Ben Loosli

RE: Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

(OP)
I had my drawings under each individual component because that's how I would have done it w/ Pro/E.  I got b-slapped because "that's not how we've always done it here" and it's not what the tool makers wanted.  

I moved one component to layer 50 and then added a base view of my entire assembly on sheet 2.   Then I set the ViV to show only layer 50 for this view. I got the one component I wanted in the view and no additional components in the ANT.  This is probably what I'll need to do. This will work for a small assembly but I'm not sure what would happen once the number of parts in the assy exceed the number of available layers.

We don't own UG now, you're right.  We bought from the original maker.

--
Fighter Pilot
Manufacturing Engineer

RE: Individual part drawings to multi-model drawing, easily?

When the component count gets higher than what layers can handle, there are some games/tricks to be played.

One is to put components that have wide seperation between them on the same layer and then use manul view bounds to focus on each component in its view.

Another is to hide the component(s) in the view(s). This doesn't require you to use layers at all, but can be time consuming in a large assembly.

A combination of layers with ViV and hide components may be the best solution.
 

"Wildfires are dangerous, hard to control, and economically catastrophic."

Ben Loosli

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members!


Resources