How important is having SEM/EDS capability in a metallurgical lab?
How important is having SEM/EDS capability in a metallurgical lab?
(OP)
I am the manager of a metallurgical lab for a large handtool manufacturer. It is the only lab the company currently has and we service all 6 of our plants for a wide variety of job requests including: failure analysis, raw material auditing (surface quality check, mechanical properties, coating weight, etc.), bulk chemical analysis, microhardness/hardness testing, corrosion testing (water fog and salt spray), plating analysis (composition, thickness, etc.), metallographic evaluation (structure, etc.). We work with low carbon alloy steels, stainless steels, tool steels, aluminum alloys and powdered metallurgy samples. Periodically, we receive welded samples as well for analysis of weld integrity.
Our microscopes consist of a Zeiss Axiovert 200MAT light microscope with max magnification of 2500x and a stereoscope with max magnification 50x.
I am considering submitting a proposal to my bosses hopefully leading to the eventual purchase of an SEM with EDS. Based on the various requests and array of testing techniques mentioned above, I was wondering if I could get some help on what strong selling points I could add to this proposal. What are some other important uses the SEM/EDS could deliver? Obviously, failure analysis would be greatly assisted by the SEM and the EDS would be used a lot for the plating analyses.
At this time, we are sending lots of samples out for EDS. Most of the failure analysis is done in-house using the equipment we have but the conclusions would clearly be more accurate with the aid of SEM. Occasionally, we have to send samples to an outside lab for SEM and it's not cheap.
Due to cost, I'm considering either a Hitachi TM-1000 or TM-3000 both with EDS capability.
I would really appreciate any advice.
Thank you.
Our microscopes consist of a Zeiss Axiovert 200MAT light microscope with max magnification of 2500x and a stereoscope with max magnification 50x.
I am considering submitting a proposal to my bosses hopefully leading to the eventual purchase of an SEM with EDS. Based on the various requests and array of testing techniques mentioned above, I was wondering if I could get some help on what strong selling points I could add to this proposal. What are some other important uses the SEM/EDS could deliver? Obviously, failure analysis would be greatly assisted by the SEM and the EDS would be used a lot for the plating analyses.
At this time, we are sending lots of samples out for EDS. Most of the failure analysis is done in-house using the equipment we have but the conclusions would clearly be more accurate with the aid of SEM. Occasionally, we have to send samples to an outside lab for SEM and it's not cheap.
Due to cost, I'm considering either a Hitachi TM-1000 or TM-3000 both with EDS capability.
I would really appreciate any advice.
Thank you.





RE: How important is having SEM/EDS capability in a metallurgical lab?
RE: How important is having SEM/EDS capability in a metallurgical lab?
Based on this description, as well as your previous posts that I remember, I would say that an SEM is a "must have" piece of equipment for your lab. The depth of field provided by SEM just cannot be matched by optical microscopy, and even if you already have advanced optical microscopes that can stitch together multiple fields and multiple depths to create enhanced depth of field, the SEM allows for rapid sample adjustment that high magnification optical microscopy still cannot match. Another capability that you did not mention is particle analysis, which uses the EDS system to determine the composition of a range of particles, while properly mapping the size and size distribution. Here are a couple of links that show good examples of the technology:
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RE: How important is having SEM/EDS capability in a metallurgical lab?
Of course, one might counter-argue that many jobs are never attempted due to the cost and delay of the outsourcing.
TTFN
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RE: How important is having SEM/EDS capability in a metallurgical lab?
RE: How important is having SEM/EDS capability in a metallurgical lab?
PS; we pretty much had all the optical equipment known to man.
RE: How important is having SEM/EDS capability in a metallurgical lab?
We have three SEMS, A Joel, a Cambridge, and one who's name escapes me, all have EDS capability. You want have this problem but when the Joel was bought they used Metallurgical Work as 60% of the justification, Since we are a synthetic fiber plant we still have to get in line for seat time
We do have a reciprocal agreement with a location forensic lab to use the other SEMS.
RE: How important is having SEM/EDS capability in a metallurgical lab?
RE: How important is having SEM/EDS capability in a metallurgical lab?
Unless the EDS work is a major factor you might find that SEM isn't the ultimate tool.
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Plymouth Tube
RE: How important is having SEM/EDS capability in a metallurgical lab?
RE: How important is having SEM/EDS capability in a metallurgical lab?
For metal failure analysis it is also worthwhile to consider an R.J.Lee PSEM. It is a small SEM with EDS capability but at a MUCH better price than most other SEMs. Typically for failure analysis of metals you will not need 30,000X to identify the cause of failure. These units work really well up to about 3500X, and I have seen the service techicians make adjustements to get well beyond that - but at least in the steel failure analyses I have done we don't need to be much over 2000X in most cases.
The lower price makes it much easier to justify...
RE: How important is having SEM/EDS capability in a metallurgical lab?
FYI, the Hitachi TM-1000/3000 machines that coreman73 referenced in the OP are similar to the R.J. Lee PSEM (now called Aspex) concept, i.e. simpler platform, less expensive to operate, etc. Hitachi uses the term "tabletop microscope" to differentiate this product line from its higher performance SEMs (variable pressure, field emission, etc.).
RE: How important is having SEM/EDS capability in a metallurgical lab?
HOWEVER, I have seen SEMs routinely (over)used by metallurgists who use it as a crutch, and by managers who want to pump up invoices. I would even say the failure analyst who relies excessively on the SEM has questionable competence.
A good failure analyst in most cases will use the SEM when there is still doubt about a fracture, or when details about fatigue (i.e., striations) are important to the investigation.
Your investment won't end with the equipment purchase. You need a trained operator/analyst on staff. Because the SEM does not magically spit out the answer to every question.
RE: How important is having SEM/EDS capability in a metallurgical lab?
RE: How important is having SEM/EDS capability in a metallurgical lab?
That is very true about one maybe using the SEM as a crutch. In my situation, I feel that I've done enough failure analyses and have had enough exposure to reaching conclusions without an SEM for long enough that I'd only be using it to remove any remaining doubts (the presence of fatigue striations you mention).
Also, the training would be an extra expense. I've had limited exposure but would need much more to feel confident.
Blacksmith37,
Yes, I do need to find someone to dazzle my bosses! Hopefully, the sales rep I eventually have come to the lab is convincing enough. Of course, with the economy currently going down the toilet it may take more than just the right sales pitch.
RE: How important is having SEM/EDS capability in a metallurgical lab?
Is the volume sufficient to occupy a SEM/EDS for even one shift? Are you getting delays in analysis from the outside vendor due to the high volume? Will your projected cost of outside services over the next 5 or 10 yrs exceed the price of a SEM? Is even the normal delay for an outside analysis too long? How much money is lost because of the turnaround delays for outside services? Is that lost money more than the price of a SEM? If you can come up with plausible answers to these questions that confirm your business case, you'd be in much better negotiating position.
While I would be wowed with a SEM saleman's pitch, I'm not sure that your management would be as well, unless you can talk dollars and hours as well.
TTFN
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RE: How important is having SEM/EDS capability in a metallurgical lab?
Those are excellent questions and I will work on putting together some numbers as part of the proposal. I really hadn't gotten that far yet as I'm just thinking of all the possible benefits adding an SEM to this lab might bring. But yes, like always, at the end of the day it's all about money.