Columns - HSS or WF
Columns - HSS or WF
(OP)
What are most of you specifying for general steel framed buildings - primarily industrial/warehouse types?
We generally see a lot of wide flange columns used in these kinds of buildings but when you look at the relative weight-stiffness and weight-strength ratios, the tubes look very good.
But if so, why do we see so many WF columns used?
We generally see a lot of wide flange columns used in these kinds of buildings but when you look at the relative weight-stiffness and weight-strength ratios, the tubes look very good.
But if so, why do we see so many WF columns used?






RE: Columns - HSS or WF
I just complete a buildin of this type, but used WF columns. The original drawings showed HSS, but the owner said "tubes are expensive". No convincing him otherwise, so we went to the heavier WF section.
So I think that HSS members suffer from a legacy of greated expense in production and fabrication. These costs have come down, but the preception persists.
RE: Columns - HSS or WF
Plus, industrial buildings & warehouses are usually made up of a series of bents or frames with loading primarily resisted by the strong axis of the frame and bracing in the opposite direction.
In other words, WF's put the steel where you need it.
RE: Columns - HSS or WF
JWB
RE: Columns - HSS or WF
RE: Columns - HSS or WF
I typically do not use HSS members in moment frames, but they do work well in braced frames.
RE: Columns - HSS or WF
www.SlideRuleEra.net![[idea] idea](https://www.tipmaster.com/images/idea.gif)
www.VacuumTubeEra.net
RE: Columns - HSS or WF
www.SlideRuleEra.net![[idea] idea](https://www.tipmaster.com/images/idea.gif)
www.VacuumTubeEra.net
RE: Columns - HSS or WF
Also, as stated above, I worry about HSS moment connections and the side wall of the column.
RE: Columns - HSS or WF
Pre-qualified weld issues in detailing.
Tubes are more suited for columns than beams, but WF's are good for both.
Tubes used to be more expensive and less available at times in certain sizes and grades.
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
RE: Columns - HSS or WF
It was enough for us to go from HSS columns to WF columns
RE: Columns - HSS or WF
I guess it's because they are standing there with their mouth open, closely mimicking the shape of the tube sections?
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
RE: Columns - HSS or WF
Dik
RE: Columns - HSS or WF
The fabrication of cutting, slotting, and re-welding of HSS columns is labor intensive and expensive for fabricators. Expecially when connections are orthogonal. Wide flange columns are generally beam line items, with cutting and drilling by CNC. The addition of stiffeners and web reinforcement, can be costly, but can also be off-set by column weight selection. This fabrication cost and additional material cost does not make HSS columns an equal alternative to WF columns.
http://www.FerrellEngineering.com
RE: Columns - HSS or WF
The architect comments are making me laugh out loud.
also, I have worked on power jobs where HSS was forbidden unless all kinds of fabrication requirements were met, namely, all ends of exposed tubes had to be sealed with cap plates and welds for fear of coal dust accumulating and.... KA-F^&%$'N BOOM!
But, once the ends were "sealed" any possible moisture accumulation inside could be lead to other problems as we have seen in other posts with water freezing inside HSS.
For center columns in warehouses or Home Depot/Lowes/Wallbillies, HSS is probably the best choice.
RE: Columns - HSS or WF
RE: Columns - HSS or WF
http://www.FerrellEngineering.com
RE: Columns - HSS or WF
For columns subject to bending, WF.
RE: Columns - HSS or WF
the tubes tend to have larger I, S, and Z values (per pound). That is the argument in favor of tubes.
Why "buy" WF shapes almost twice as large to get the same stiffness at half the weight?
RE: Columns - HSS or WF
But that is the case in only one direction, right? I suppose it depends on whether you are comparing the tubes to relatively square column sections or beam shaped sections.
RE: Columns - HSS or WF
I'll spot check a few shapes tomorrow and see.
RE: Columns - HSS or WF
RE: Columns - HSS or WF
Brad
RE: Columns - HSS or WF
http://www.FerrellEngineering.com
RE: Columns - HSS or WF
Brad...
Cost per pound is just a little higher unless you are looking at unusual section sizes and the steel has to be 'warehoused' sourced in which case the cost for HSS is markedly higher.
Dik
RE: Columns - HSS or WF
Brad
RE: Columns - HSS or WF