Power-grid experiment (1 year)
Power-grid experiment (1 year)
(OP)
What are you power-heads up to?!
"Power-grid experiment could confuse electric clocks
Traffic lights, security systems and computers may be affected by frequency change as well."
http ://www.msn bc.msn.com /id/435320 31/ns/tech nology_and _science-i nnovation/
Makes a lot of sense to me though I'll probably be annoyed by my oven and microwave clocks drifting.
"Power-grid experiment could confuse electric clocks
Traffic lights, security systems and computers may be affected by frequency change as well."
http
Makes a lot of sense to me though I'll probably be annoyed by my oven and microwave clocks drifting.
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com





RE: Power-grid experiment (1 year)
It's an interesting idea though, and I'll be looking for a more technically sound report if this goes ahead. It certainly does cost a fair bit of money to maintain the frequency at nominal value.
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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
RE: Power-grid experiment (1 year)
my quick research into the AP news story was that the official "time correction" operation period was going to be less rigorous. I was looking to see if the "experiment" had any thing to do with the actual generator's frequency respnse since my current peeve is after a life time of working mechanical linkage and hydraulic pistons to have the best responding governor possible, only to have it replaced with a computer that has programed dead band.
I ponder this as I try to read and comment on a bid spec derived by the utilities digital group to replace an OEM anolog EHC STG system. makes me sick
RE: Power-grid experiment (1 year)
http://www.nerc.com/page.php?cid=6|386
RE: Power-grid experiment (1 year)
Bill
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"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
RE: Power-grid experiment (1 year)
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(2B)+(2B)' ?
RE: Power-grid experiment (1 year)
I guess they saved the cost of a crystal by counting cycles.
Bill
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"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
RE: Power-grid experiment (1 year)
That was way before I got my ME degree, and now thinking back, I have to wonder what the gage accuracy of the independent clock was.
rmw
RE: Power-grid experiment (1 year)
http://
I like the comment that requiring utilities to run above frequency to compensated for the time they ran below freq added "wear and tear". I just wonder if they then allow the lower of the frequency to allow allow the system to carry more load without increasing generation
I never saw the dual clock, but my one and only visit to the "dispatcher" when begining with GE, I recall a large nixie tube display
google "henry warren master clock" for the history
RE: Power-grid experiment (1 year)
We still have those two clocks (digital clocks now). There's also a display of the number of seconds difference, which the system operator uses to increase decrease the system frequency.
And for the record, when the frequency clock drifted and we lost about 15 minutes over Easter weekend last year, a number of people did notice.
RE: Power-grid experiment (1 year)
Yet.
Muthu
www.edison.co.in
RE: Power-grid experiment (1 year)
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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
RE: Power-grid experiment (1 year)
Hi mgtrp. Sounds like an independent grid. Where in the world are you?
Bill
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"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
RE: Power-grid experiment (1 year)
If you have already sold those under frequency MWs, why generate the extra MWs just to make the total count of cycles correct at the end of the day.
If any manufactoring process was varied due to operating while under frequency, wouldn't a similar variance occur durring the correction period.
and for those anitiquated devices that use grid frequency as their time regulation, they need to step into the digital age. Just throw those devices away like with anolog TV and "cash for clunkers". this should be a stimulus for the economy ;)
RE: Power-grid experiment (1 year)
If NERC wanted to see the effects of wandering frequency in North America, we'd be a good place for a trial. Not that we could keep our frequency within the 59.95 - 60.05 Hz band that they seem to be talking about....
RE: Power-grid experiment (1 year)
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Power-grid experiment (1 year)
RE: Power-grid experiment (1 year)
Do they still have the old diesel standby at Carmacks? I remember a transmission line outage in Carmacks in the early 70's. The old diesel came on as back-up. The frequency and voltage were both below any spec you care to name. We were in the restaurant watching the fluorescent light fixtures cycle off and on on their thermal protection. The low voltage and low frequency was causing the ballasts to overheat and trip the thermal protectors. At any one time about one third of the light fixtures were off. A somewhat unique load shedding process. No complaints though. Any power was better than no power.
Bill
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"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
RE: Power-grid experiment (1 year)
RE: Power-grid experiment (1 year)
David Castor
www.cvoes.com
RE: Power-grid experiment (1 year)
Nearly every electrical appliance you buy now seems to include a clock whether a timing function is needed by the device or not. Do all these "convenience clocks" have quartz crystals? I'm guessing that like waross, they bought the cheapest displays they could find for a function no one looked closely at prior to the experiment.
RE: Power-grid experiment (1 year)
Some of the most inaccurate local oscillators used for keeping time that I've come across have been on protective relays.
I've done some work at a mill that often operates in island mode. They have two clocks and claim their local clock keeps better time than the clock running off the grid - I didn't argue with them.
I like my "Atomic" clock that receives radio signals from WWV in Fort Collins.
dpc
David Castor
www.cvoes.com
RE: Power-grid experiment (1 year)
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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
RE: Power-grid experiment (1 year)
Not only how cheap are the components, what about the button-type batteries that one finds often on internal boards on protection relays and other microprocessor type equipment- what happens when these batteries eventually go dead? Are then the programming and settings gone to relay-heaven (long after the guarantee period is up, or the OEM no longer exists....) In todays fast-track world of youthful innovation and short-term foresight, are we not in for some ugly surprises down the road (years?) when, one fine day, it all begins to fail and fall apart, system by system...
If power station control and protection as implemented today, are no more reliable or lifetimed as have been computer operating systems and hardware, (over the last decade or two), we are indeed in for some interesting times ahead.
Not to mention an EMP event...
rasevskii
RE: Power-grid experiment (1 year)
The comments about cheep clocks in devices reminds me of what I was told in lab class. The test power supply is a power supply. Not a highly accurate volt meter. If you want to know the voltage, use a highly accurate voltmeter.
RE: Power-grid experiment (1 year)
I doubt we will see any of the modern relays still in service seventy years from now. There are quite a few electro-mechanical relays on the UK's network which date back to the 1940s. I wonder how many are even older and still in service?
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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
RE: Power-grid experiment (1 year)
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com