Hello all:

I recently came to know about this forum while searching for the tips on PE exam in metallurgical engineering. I have following questions for this exam -

1) Is anyone taking the exam in October 2011?
2) Is it really tough exam?
3) Historically, passing rate is between 50% to 65%. Is it because that it is a tough exam or because examinees take it lightly?
4) Is Transport Phenomenon still part of the exam? If yes, which book will you recommend? Does it come with solution manual?
5) I am going through the chapter on casting, forging, machining etc. Do i have to know the positives and negatives of different methods e.g. drawbacks of open die forging and/or types of hammer used in forging etc?

Thanks for your time.

Met1CO

I'm not a metallurgical engineer, but in general, all PE exams are the same in context...

Now for your reality check.

Thousands of people in these forums will be taking the exam.

Yes, it is hard.

No, the pass rate has nothing to do with how seriously the exam is taken by the examinees....they all take it seriously, they all know it's hard and they all try their best.  They fail for two primary reasons:

1..they are not prepared and do not have adequate experience, even though they have met the "paper" requirements (vast majority of the "failures")
2..they fail to take the exam seriously and do not adequately prepare for it (a very small percentage)

I can't answer your last two questions, but suffice it to say that the exams change so be prepared for anything.

Thank you Ron.

I got the answer of my question # 5 by searching on the subject online. There are some really nice videos posted online on casting, forging etc.

Would love to hear from folks taking PE in metallurgical engineering...

Thanks

Met1CO

Ron:

Could you please elaborate this line -


1..they are not prepared and do not have adequate experience, even though they have met the "paper" requirements (vast majority of the "failures")

Thanks

Met1CO

Met1C0;
Search on this subject using the ET search feature button above and you will find answers to #2-5.

Key Word - PE exam or PE Metallurgical Exam

Good Luck

 

You will NOT learn enough from any number of "on-line videos" to pass any part of the PE exam.

There is a very real reason for the years of "apprenticeship" as a practicing PE under the direct management of a PE.  Trying to shortcut those years of experience and practice in the equations and references and terminology will likely be reason you too face a greater chance of joining those who fail the test.   

I applaud your care, your foresight in looking for references and studying ahead of time.   You will get a selection of topics in your field, and from those topics, a series of questions.  You ,must choose wisely which to answer, but you are not required to answer all of the questions.    On the other hand, you will not be able to pass by selecting questions from only one topic.  

I took this exam in 2004, and as I walked out of the exam room I was certain that I had failed. It was very hard - easily one of the most difficult exams that I have ever taken. As I thought about the answers that I had given, I realized that most of them were probably right, but there were also some obvious mistakes that I had made. So I did stand a chance of passing after all. Months later I finally got the test results verifying that I had in fact passed. Amazing!

Don't be surprised if you feel the same way when you walk out of the exam room. This is a particularly tough exam to study for because there are no review manuals available for it. So deciding what to study is a real shot in the dark. I did some review about two weeks before the exam using books I had never read before, but realized that studying was essentially futile at this point because I didn't know what I should be reviewing. So I pretty much walked into the exam cold. And I distinctly remember seeing at least three questions on my test that covered topics in metallurgy that I had never even heard of. The funny part is that I felt myself start to panic at this point, and remember thinking "just breathe". That brought me back to my strategy, described below.

The best way to prepare is to have a strategy in hand and stick to it, no matter what they throw at you. I answered the questions that I felt confident I could do right off the bat. But there weren't as many of those on the exam as I had hoped there would be. On the second round through the test, I discarded the answers for certain questions that could be readily identified as wrong, thus reducing the number of possible correct answers. I was often able to reason my way through which of the remaining answers was the correct one. And on the remaining set of questions where I had no clue, I simply guessed at the answer. Based on statistics, I probably got 25% of those answers correct. And my strategy worked, because I did pass.

I hope that you do well. But remember no matter how dismal you may feel when the exam is actually over, you still might have passed.

Maui

 

I don't know whether you  had your PhD at the point to PE but I'm just interested what topic in Metallurgy had you neve heard of. Not that's any value to OP.  

To Maui:

wow, so you just studied for two weeks? And you passed. AMAZING !!!

Could i please know your work history at the time you took your exam?

Thanks

Met1CO

Cloa, it was so long ago that I don't remember what the unfamiliar topics were. Some additional reflection may stimulate my memory. But I do recall looking each of them up after I left the exam. I did get two of those three questions right by reasoning my way through to the answer. The surprising part is that I had earned my Ph.D. in the early 1990s, and didn't take this exam until 2004. And I was a seasoned Senior Metallurgist working in a steel manufacturing plant for nine consecutive years when I sat for the exam. I didn't expect to be blindsided like that, but it happened. I suppose that one person can't be expected to know everything.

Met1CO, the following thread contains some very useful links:

thread330-248008: Suggestions for the Metallurgical Engineering (PE) Exam?

I suggest that you go through each of the links that appears in this thread, especially the ones provided by Corypad. You will find some worthwhile information there.

Maui

 

I took the test years ago and the format has changed.
I had worked in three different industries with a wide range of processes and alloys.
I wasn't sure if I had passed or not, fortunately I did.
An advanced degree does not help you with this test since breadth and not depth is the real key.

To study for this test you need to re-familiarize yourself with your books.
Knowing where to find key equations and relationships is what will get you through the test.

There are lots of unknown subjects.
Do you know how to rate a benificiation process in a mine?
Brazing of Al alloys?
How about high temp weld overlay alloys?

The questions are hard and the scope if frightening.
Keep a cool head and check carefully and you have a good chance of passing on the first try.
 

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Plymouth Tube

Thanks to Ed, Maui, Racookpe and Metengr on your invaluable feed back. It is going to be one exciting exam.  

I went through the TMS provided sample exam and you are right ED. It is not the depth but the breadth and a clear understanding of fundamentals.

Thank you folks.

Is there anyone from state of Colorado taking this exam in October 11?

  

Need suggestions -

I was flipping the pages of the book 'Transport Phenomena in Materials Processing' by Poirier and Geiger.

So all you guys who were able to crack the PE exam, did you go through all the chapter in this book?

What about the chapters in Gaskell (Thermodynamics) and Dieter? Did you go through all the chapters in these two books two?

And if you did, how were you able to finish all these within 2 weeks, 1 month or in 3 months?

Either you folks are genius or just pure lucky...

Your suggestions will be helpful.

Thanks

Met1CO

 

I am getting worried just by looking at the size of the books i have to read.

Please comment on my earlier question.

Thanks

Met1CO, as I stated in my prior post, I only studied for about two weeks before the exam. And a good deal of the material that I reviewed wasn't even on it. Since there are no review books for this exam, it is especially difficult to prepare for. If you haven't done it already, I suggest that you click on the link I provided above and read through each of the links in that thread. You will find some very useful information that will benefit you in preparing for this exam.

Maui

Maui:

I have gone through all the links related to PE exam in metallurgical engineering in this forum. Here is the summary -


Before exam -

1) Study as much as possible. More is better. Usually people with a bachelor degree in metallurgical engineering can pass the exam if they study at least 3 months prior to the exam at a rate of 30 hours per week. (don't quote me on it so study as much as possible)

2) Read and absorb the metals hand book as much as possible. This is the most important book among all.

3) Work on as many problems as possible on the following books - Dieter, Gaskell, &  Geiger. Expect a lot of problem in the exam on Transport Phenomenon, Thermodynamics, and Mechanical Metallurgy.

4) The TMS study guide has several questions. The questions are easier than the actual exam.

5) If time permits, try to solve the homework assignments provided on several university website (e.g. MIT etc). One guy and his study partner from CA did not use reference books but he searched the home assignments online.

6) One guy took the exam twice but he failed both the times. On the other hand, there are people who went to the examination hall cold and were able to pass it.

7) Common sense or general knowledge type questions will make up to 25% of the total questions.

8) Although, there is no difference between AM and PM sessions. But some examinees reported that PM session is tough.


During exam -

1) Don't expect the exam to be easy and straight from the book. But ASM metals handbook will be of great help.

2) Don't panic. If don't know the solution, use the elimination process.

I am nervous because i want to pass this exam and i want to leave no stone unturned for it but the scope is frightening.


Met1CO

 

I can verify that the afternoon session was much more difficult on my exam. But this may have changed since I took it. I would add some items to your list above:

1.) Get a good night's sleep the two days before the exam.

2.) Do NOT cram the last few days before you sit for the exam. If you don't know it by now, you won't learn it the last two days.

3.) Bring in a lot of reference books. I brought in too few when I took the exam, and even though I knew exactly how to solve one of the problems, I got it wrong because I didn't have the appropriate reference table in any of the books that I brought with me. During the lunch break you will have the opportunity to leave the test site. I used this time to go back to work and get more reference books. And it was a good thing that I did this.

4.) Breathe. You will likely get very stressed when you read some of these questions and realize that you don't have a clue how to figure them out. Don't let that kill your strategy.

5.) Walk into the test with a clear-cut strategy. Without this, you will likely fail. See the one I used above.

Good luck!

Maui

Why is the name of the book by Gaskell is 'Introduction to the  Thermodynamics of Material'?

It should be more like 'Thermodynamics of Material - The basic understanding can be found elsewhere'

lol.

I am lucky that i have the book 'Thermodynamics: An Engineering Approach" by Cengel and Boles.

Met1CO

I don't have PE yet but donplan to take it in couple years if having time.

I took the eit exam in 2006 and did some research before. Wondering if the same strategry applies to PE or not but would to share it. The am session is always a mix or general session but pm is optional between each subject or again gerenal. Choosing A subject is harder than general for pm session. I did this for my eit, general also for pm, but never has experience to verify the difference.

I do see the point that is why I took the strategy.  

Salmon2:

Were you finishing your undergrad when you took the EIT exam? What was your strategy for EIT exam?

There is no general session for PE exam (if i am not wrong).



 

If you take the EIT while still in school there is no strategy, ti is what you have been doing for three years, you just do it.

When you study for the PE use post-its to flag pages of interest.
When you are done you should have a stack of books that is as large as you can carry in one trip.
Among them you should have 15-20 things flagged (2-3 per book).  You will know where some others are also but this should be enough to get you close.  I did take a couple of ref books so that if I had time and couldn't solve a problem I could try from scratch.

There were two problems on my test (not required) that I had never even heard of the subject and knew that no book that I owned covered it.

Keep cool and don't get upset, just keep working.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Plymouth Tube

Met1co, I did eit after I got my phd and already stRted to work. I knew that I can be exempt from eit but just lazy to go through the procedure to get exempt and decided to sit in the exam and figured it is a good exercise for later PE exam. Then I got delayed for my PE. My strategy is just getting the manual of eit and I spent about 3 months, I am slow I admit, a lot of things I picked during the preparation so it was worth it even if I got a phd lol. I am not sure if I can pass if I didnot prepare. And specifically I took general session for both am and pm. That time, I was in mechanical field and now I am more interested to get PE in metallurgy.

Upstairs-Downstairs Inside-Out Formula.

Crazy name...lol..

http://engineerboards.com/index.php?showtopic=15165&pid=6869401&mode=threaded&;start=#entry6869401

So, i was reading this post. One of the guy mentioned that 38% of the exam is from other discipline. Similarly, someone (in metallurgical PE exam discussion) mentioned that 25% of the content is general knowledge. And most of the metallurgists struggle in it.

My question is that what comes under general knowledge when we look from the eyes of a metallurgical engineer?

Thanks

It was 'metengr' who mentioned about general knowledge. See link and excerpt below -


http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=115368

"metengr (Materials)     
15 Feb 05 8:56
alwilliams;
In my opinion, the Hertzberg and the Transport Phenomena books should be obtained as references. As CoryPad indicated, the Application of General Knowledge makes up about 22% of the exam, and is probably the most difficult component of the exam. The problems that are typical in this section  consist of heat transfer, diffusion and oxidation kinetics. The Transport Phenomena book has relevant data and equations."

 

Met1CO;
Go to the NCEES web site below and look for the Metallurgical and Materials PE exam specification. All of the information that will be covered by topic is provided, including percentage of questions.

http://www.ncees.org/Exams/PE_exam.php

Thanks metengr

I already have the print out of the PE exam specification for metallurgical exam. I was just wondering if there is something different under the name of 'General Knowledge' which is not covered in the exam specification.

It is hard to know that where does the science end and metallurgical engineering starts.

For example, Gaskell (thermodynamics) is full of problems and equations on vapor pressure but it does not answer that what are colligative properties. But, when i read the Chemistry (by Chang)i get the answer of my question.

So, 'General Knowledge' is enormous. Therefore, i asked the question.

Thanks.

Dear all:

I got stuck on one of the problem in Fracture Mechanics (Ch 11)in Dieter. The problem number is 11-2. I can not solve this problem till i know the E (Young's modulus) for the ship steel. I can solve the problem if i know plane stress fracture toughness for the ship steel.

But, i do not have either young's modulus or the plane stress fracture toughness for ship steel. And there is nothing in the appendix or the tables in the chapter regarding ship steel.

How to solve it? Is there a solution manual for Dieter? I tried to find it online but it is out of print.

Thanks

Steel is mostly all the same E- its 200 GPa- ship steel would standard E.

Thanks Cloa. You are right on the E for the steel.

I was pulling my hair on this problem because i was sure that it can not be solved without knowing the value of E. And i don't have the value of E for ship steel.

So i started to search the solution manual online. I could not find the solution manual. But i found the SI version of Dieter online. I thought to have a look on the same problem in SI version. And in the online SI version, the value of E was provided in the question statement. It was E = 205 GPa.

After that, solving the problem became piece of cake.

Do we get the same type of problem in the PE exam? And 'same type' means that if you know the formula to be used (and pay attention to the units), you can solve the problem.

Thanks



 

Getting familiar with E of common material is pretty handy in daily work.
Such as steel roughly is 200Gpa or 30mpsi and heat treatment condition
Does not matter. Stainless has about same number but slightly lower.
Ni based alloy has slightly higher E. Ti has about half of steel's, etc.
Hope this helps.

I took and passed the Metallurgical PE exam in October 2010.  It is broad based and you will need to be familiar with lots of engineering fundamentals as per the identified spec sheet.

That being said, my recommended review process would be to work through the EIT prep-book again and relevant chapters.  It is good to have the other books recommended by TMS for reference (especially the ASM Metals Handbook).  You will use the reference books to look up information DURING the exam because there is no way to know it all.

I walked out of the morning session feeling confident, and out of the afternoon session less confident.  I would also recommend bringing some Advil/Tylenol to take around lunch time.  My back started killing me in the afternoon due to the poor chairs we had to sit in.  It was far more distracting than anything else and forced me to leave before time expired.


 

WidowMakerSB:

What was your experience level when you took the PE exam? Which year you finished your bachelor degree? When did you take your FE exam? What were your thought after FE exam (e.g. morning was easy able to do 120/120 but afternoon was hard etc). Were you working in steel/metal industry when you took the PE exam?

Your post made it sound like PE exam is somewhat like FE exam?  

Book - Transport Phenomena in Materials Processing
Chapter 2 - Laminar Flow and The Momentum Equation
Problem # 2.16 -

Problem Statement -

Molten aluminum is degassed by gently bubbling a 75% N2-25% Cl2 gas mixture through the melt. The gas passes through a graphite tube at a volumetric flow rate of 6.6 * 10^(-5) m3/sec.

Calculate the pressure that should be maintained at the tube entrance if the pressure over the bath is 1 atm.

Tube Length = 0.9 m
Tube inside diameter = 2 mm
Temperature of aluminum melt = 973 K
Density of aluminum = 2500 kg/m3


Please tell me that we don't get these kind of problem in the PE exam? I saw the solution of this problem in the solution manual and i thought to myself that i am going to puke if i see these kind of problems in the PE exam.

Met1CO;
Yes, you might see a similar problem. Puke, and go on to the next problem.

Dear all:

I am trying to solve the chapter-end problems in Transport Phenomena book by Poirier & Geiger. I am realizing that the problems are really time-consuming (and frustrating) to solve even if you know how to solve it. It is taking me around 20 minutes to solve a problem.

Are examination questions as tough and lengthy as they are in this book?

Thanks  

Met1CO...I'm also taking the exam in October,  so I feel your pain.

uh ha...finally, there is some else taking this exam in October. How is your study going? What is your background (e.g. bachelor, master, experience etc)? When did you take your FE exam? What books are you working on currently?

One thing is very surprising to me that the scope of the exam is as big as this universe is.

First you have to clear your fundamentals on - extended dislocation, nucleation and growth, diffusion, stacking fault energy, bainite transformation, fatigue, creep, powder metallurgy, super alloys, GP zones, slip systems in HCP crystal, fracture mechanics, heat treatment, strengthening mechanism, vacancy, dislocation climb and cross slip, casting, testing, microscope and statistics to name a few. And then, you have to solve infinite number of problems where problems in Transport Phenomena (TP) book are lethal...The TP book should have a warning sign on its cover saying - 'Enter at your own risk'.

How can examinees do all this in 3 months or 6 months? Some people are even able to pass this exam after 2 weeks of study. And on top of that, the passing rate is between 50% to 65%.

I think that the passing rate is too high considering the scope to cover.

The actual exam must be real easy otherwise passing rate cannot be so high.

Frustrated.
 

Background is Bachelor in Mat. Sci & Eng. in 2002 (same time I took FE).  Starting Masters at Ohio State in the fall (Welding Eng.).
Right now I'm focusing on Dieter and Geiger books for problem solving as well as Smith and ASM Metals Handbook for general review.
Experience is primarily in testing/construction.

met1co，getting to know your own strength and be able to judge quickly a question in PE exam are part of exam I believe even though I don't take PE yet but I have taken a lot of exams in my life as I have one bs, two ms and one phd. So what I am saying when you see a similar question during exam, you should either skip it or quickly come up with an estimate, and then move on to other relatively easier ones. Save them for later comeback if you still have time. This way, you can maximize your chance to pass.

Met1CO...Have you managed to locate a copy of the solutions manual to Dieter?  What I wouldn't give for a copy...

HSCMIE1:

No, i could not find any. There were few links on file sharing website but i am not sure if it is legal. Those website asks you for registration or pay for registration

I also contacted Emeritus Prof Dieter. But he did not reply back.

Is there something i can help in solving the problem?  

The problem I'm having is getting my answers correlate with the selected answers in the back of the book.  If you would like, we can correspond with Q and A type things via email.  That way we can hopefully help each other out (unless you would rather do it via message board).  Send me an email at jwhopkins21@hotmail.com if you want to do with this.

One thing to keep in mind is that simple strength of material, statics, and dynamics problems can be made to look very difficult by providing way too much information.  Look above at the Al degas question.  You don't need to solve for reactions, it is a flow question.
And yes, 15-20 min per question will be common.   

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Plymouth Tube

I have twice tried and failed at taking the Metallurgy & Material PE exam under the new format.

The main pitfall that I see is that the exam covers too much territory compared with other disciplines.  For example, materials engineers who work in steelmaking utilize different knowledge sets then engineers who specialize in mechanical testing or in forensic lab investigations.  The old format used to account for this because graders gave partial credit for knowledge you have but the new multiple choice format is absolute.  Since our discipline is not very popular, we do not have some of the resources other disciplines have (like Civil or Mechanical Engineering) to prepare - just a too short guide issued by TMS.

Studying your old text books may help but they will be of limited help if you never used the principles in practice after graduation.  The material in the test really is best suited to scientists and graduates with advanced degrees who did more work with the fundamental principles.  I am part of a group of working engineers, however, who find the test daunting because so much of it was never germane to me as a practicing engineer.

Good luck!  And BTW:  I may need my head examined but I'm also going to give it one more try this fall.

I agree that the scope for the exam is HUGE. One can not learn everything and can not retain everything.

But, one thing i can say about this exam - It is making me read or re-read those chapters where i paid little to no attention during my undergrad.

And, it is very enjoyable. It is fun to read these books thinking that i am making by bread and butter because of these books. Although, i do not use them on daily basis but this exam is giving me a medium to pay my homage to these books. I am glad that we have exams like these in existence.

Were you able to study a minimum of 300 hours for this exam during your attempts? Did you solve an infinite number of problems?

 

No, I could not put in 300 hours before, but I do plan to approach this differently this time.  This has become a personal challenge.

Wish TMS would expand the study guide to about 200 questions - many topics are not covered at all...

It will be great if you can answer some of my questions as you are the only one who as the latest experience with this exam.

1) What is the difference between AM and PM session?
2) Were questions plug-n'-chug type?
3) Were questions plug-n'-chug type but more like each question is made up of 6 or 7 questions? E.g. I have written a questions above from TP book on Al degassing by bubbling N2 and Cl2. This question is easy but it is made up of 5 or 6 questions. And it is very time consuming.

Thanks

Answers to your questions:

1. As far as materials goes, there is no difference anymore between AM and PM questions.  Subject matter is randomly distributed among the 80 questions.

2.  Many questions are qualitative in nature that require just understanding how a material behaves.  However, there are quite a number of questions which are calculational.  They tend to be complex in nature.  These questions include a number of red herrings and sometimes have hidden unit conversions.

3.  I understand this was true of the old test but I think all of the questions I've seen are all stand-alone and are not based on previous questions.

Thanks you.

1. Now, i understand that subject matter is randomly distributed among the 80 questions. What about the complexity? Can we say that AM session is easier in terms of complexity than PM session?

2. Red herring and hidden unit conversion....lol....This exam is gonna be fun.
 
Was/Is TMS study guide a better representation of the actual exam in terms of complexity of the questions?
 
On an average each question gets 6 minutes to solve. Are the actual exam question solvable in 6 minutes? Or is it like some questions can be solved in seconds and other might take 15 minutes?

Thanks a lot for your valuable feed back. It is very hard to find feed backs from people who recently took the exam. Most of the time, these people leave without writing down their insights on the exam.   

There really is no difference between sessions.  By the nature of the questions, I recall the first time I took it the morning was much harder for me, but I know this is just the random nature.

I figured I would approach the exam by breaking it up into sets of 10-question 1-hour segments.  Answer what I know then come back to figure out the more challenging questions.  If everything is answered within the hour then you can go back to earlier session segments.

It is so frustrating that there is no solution manual available for Dieter and Hertzberg. Hertzberg is a good book but it does not have the answers at the end of the book like Dieter has.

It is sad.

Hello folks:

Could anyone please help me out in solving the problem # 11-8 on Dieter. Few lines from the problem statement are -

"A cylindrical steel pressure vessel with a yield strength of 360 MPa is subjected to hoop stress of 140 MPa. A tensile residual stress of 80 MPa also can be assumed to be present....."

Thanks

Met1CO

• http://files.engineering.com/getfile.aspx?folder=1b51a226-6dcd-48d8-97a4-83

Attached is the problem statement for the prob 11-8 in Dieter.

Thanks

• http://files.engineering.com/getfile.aspx?folder=ee237966-196d-4cf5-b629-b5

Your attachment doesn't seem to be working for me and my copy of Dieter is at the office (and could be a different edition anyway).

A cylindrical steel pressure vessel with a yield strength of 360 MPa is subjected to hoop stress of 140 MPa. A tensile residual stress of 80 MPa also can be assumed to be present. The lowest service temperature of the vessel will be - 25 C (minus 25 Celsius), under which condition K1C (fracture toughness) = 1400 MPa.sqrt(mm). The vessel will be designed according to a leak before break philosophy in which a detectable leak will occur before brittle fracture could occur. Determine the thickness of the pressure vessel based on the fracture mechanics consideration.

Answer to this problem is 10.5 mm

Subject:- Moody diagram in the Poirier/Geiger TP book.

This diagram can be found on Page # 80. It is Figure 3.2.

Is this Moody diagram wrong?

I was trying to solve a TP problem from my FE book. I was looking for the friction factor for Re value of 310000. The Poirier book says that it is 0.0037 but the FE book's Moody diagram says that it is 0.014.

I searched for Moody diagram online and found that f = 0.014 for Re = 310000.

Is this Moody diagram given in Poirier book wrong or i am missing something?

Thanks

Met1CO

METCO1

Question 3 in the TMS Sample questions book has me bamboozled.  I cannot figure out why the mean chart for Sample 2 would be out of control.  Do you have any idea why?

Aaron Tanzer
www.lehightesting.com

For Sample # 2 -

Average for the mean chart = 23.5 (you can read it on the y axis of the mean chart).

Average for the range chart = 0.6 (you can read it on the y axis of the range chart)

UCL for the mean chart = Average of the means + (A2*mean of R chart).

and

LCL for the mean chart = Average of the means - (A2*mean of R chart).

Now, if we can find the value for the constant A2, we should be able to calculate the UCL and LCL for the mean chart. The factor A2 depends on the sample size. In this problem the sample size is 4. Therefore, A2 is 0.729. You can find the value of A2 in tables given at the end of the books related to statistics.

Hence,

UCL = 23.5 + (0.729*0.6)= 23.9

and

LCL = 23.5 - (0.729*0.6)= 23.1


So, we have found the UCL and LCL for the mean chart.

Now, if you look at the mean chart, you can easily identify 5 or 6 points outside the UCL and LCL ranges.

That is why the mean chart for sample # 2 is out of control.

Mean and Range Charts for sample # 1 are in control.
Range Chart for sample # 2 is in control.

To call a process in 'control' both the(mean and range) charts should be in control.

Hope it helps.







 

Thanks!  I'm with you now.  And for the range chart UCL=D4*R-chart mean.  LCL would mean D3*R-chart mean except N is too low so one would assume 0.

Aaron Tanzer
www.lehightesting.com

Good Luck with the exam on Friday.
 

Let us know how it goes.

Maui

www.EngineeringMetallurgy.com

Met1CO, assuming that you've recovered from the stress of the exam, how was it? Any thoughts on the level of difficulty?

Maui

www.EngineeringMetallurgy.com

First of all - Thanks to all of you folks for guiding me in this process.

Last 5 to 6 months were long, hard and full of frustration but i enjoyed it. I did end up studying 450-500 hours for this exams.

I felt that the exam was easy.
  
In spite of lots of frustration during preparation phase, i can say one thing for sure that studying for this exam made me feel like i am a better engineer now than 6 months ago.

Thanks to all of you.

 

That's it's there.   8<)    

Congratulations.    

Dear all:

I am very thankful to all of you. With your blessings, i passed the PE exam.

Thank you.

Met1Co

PE pass rate in metallurgical PE exam -

October 2011 - 53% and 46%
October 2010 - 64% and 50%
October 2009 - 56% and 33%
October 2008 - 56% and 56%
October 2007 - 52% and 45%

The second % number is for repeat takers.
 

I just found out I also passed the exam.  Nice to no longer be an amateur engineer!

Aaron Tanzer
www.lehightesting.com

Congratulations...Mr. Successful.

 

Congrats to both of you!! Glad you've taken the exam and profession seriously.  Best wishes for a long and successful career.

I can tell from this thread that MetCO1 used the gold standard in studying approach and put in the time to take a comprehensive approach, which he can detail.

An expanded study guide is sorely needed.  TMS did not reflect in the current guid the breadth of materials engineering that is in the actual test.  I used the study guide this year as a jumping off point to study source texts on the principles the problems reflect.

I also went through the recommended books to refresh myself on subjects I was not so familiar with.  I just started at the beginning of each and would read in detail when I needed to learn something.  ASM Handbook Desk Edition is extremely valuable in this regard, but don't forget to study the other texts in Phys Met, Mechanical Metallurgy, Corrosion, etc.

Thermodynamics and energy/mass balance problems are extremely important areas of competency as you now know.

I made a point of studying for several hours a day without distraction.  That is not always practical but this year I had that opportunity so I took it.

Finally, it was a huge help simply monitoring the problems people were listing on the Eng Tips forums, as these were great ways to research and learn about materials behavior in preparation for the test.  

Aaron Tanzer
www.lehightesting.com

Hey MetCO1 / Ron

Can you please guide me all the books you had, all the study matter you went through, all the test you took.

Can you also tell when you started studying?  What all things necessary to pass the examination?  

Thanks in advance.

Books i had -

1) Corrosion Engineering by Fontana

Comment - Great book on corrosion. One can not call himself a metallurgist without reading this book.

2) Thermodynamics by Gaskell

Comment - It is also a good book to solve problems but it might not act as a good book to clear fundamentals. Answer keys are at the end.

3) Transport Phenomenon by Geiger and Poirier

Comment - Great book. You can buy the solution manual of this book online.

4) Deformation and Fracture Mechanics by Hertzberg

Comment - The book is great but neither it comes with solution manual nor key. Solution manual are out of prints. But i think that University of Maryland has a copy in its library. I tried to get it but i am not in college; therefore, could not use the inter-library loan.

5) Mechanical Metallurgy by Dieter

Comment - Great book. It comes with answer keys. If you pay careful attention, you will find that all the answers are given where answers should be given.

6) Material Science and Engineering by Callister

Comment - Good and basic book. Easy to read. You can buy solution manual but solution manual does not contain all the solutions.

7) Physical Metallurgy Principle by Reed-Hill

Comment - Great book but some chapters are too much deep and some are quite superficial. Yet, a good book. It does not come with solution manual or key.

8) Ceramic Material by Barry Carter

Comment - I love the way author wrote this book. Quite interesting book.


9) Transmission Electron Microscope by David B Williams and Barry Carter

Comment - Another great book. I had courses in my master degree in electron microscope but never owned a book. Therefore, i bought it. But, it is really a great book. Note Barry carter also contributed in this book along with the book on ceramics. Therefore, this book is also fun to read.

10) Scanning Electron Microscope - Joseph Goldstein et. al.

Comment - Same as above for TEM.

11) Mechanical Behavior of Materials by N. E. Dowling

Comment - It does not come with a solution manual. It also does not have answer key. I contacted Professor Dowling to ask if he can send me the answer key. He said that he does not have it but he is changing that on 4th edition. The 4th edition might have answer key at the end.

12) ASM metals handbook - Davis

Comment - Very easy to read and a practical book.

Other than that, i took my FE exam in Oct 2010. I bought couple of books on Physics and Chemistry and Thermodynamics. I liked those books too and study a little bit from those books. The books are -

13) Thermodynamics - Yunus Cenegel

Comment - A great book. It must be owned by all the metallurgist, chemical engineers and mechanical engineers.

14) Physics for engineers and scientist

15) Chemistry  

 

Forgot to mention that i also owned books on Statistics. I started studying somewhere in January or February 2011 but did not catch the speed till last week of May. After May, i was quite regular.

There are several things necessary to pass this exam but the most important is HARD WORK. Things worked out for me because i am single and have no family responsibilities.

Engineer-board.com recommends to study for at least 300 hours but i will say that study a minimum of 450 hours. So if you study two hours everyday till exam, you will be in good shape.

In the examination hall, do talk to fellow exam-takers. There were a lot of good looking girls but i was too nervous to talk to them. Now i regret....  
 

The 2011 PE exam was my second attempt in passing this exam. I talked to NCEES about my frustration because I felt I was not reviewing the right study material. NCEES told me that this exam is not difficult at all because all the questions are designed to answer in six minutes. The problem is that the percentage portion of the exam are ambiguous to review. Physical/Engineering Sciences contains physical chemistry, Phase equilibria, Thermodynamics, Heat transfer, and Reaction kinetics. Some of these subjects are already engineering sciences in itself, that without counting the rest of the contents. The exam in itself may no be difficult, but not having the right direction for reviewing the material is what makes people fail. I admire those who can do a quick review and pass it. Unfortunately I haven't been gifted that way and have to go through the extra effort.

I spoke with Mary Samsa at TMS and they will be creating a new study guide with close to 200 problems.  Did you ask NCEES why there were no available study manuals for the metallurgical and materials PE similar to the mechanical or civil PE exams? I wonder how they would answer that.   

I plan on taking the FE and PE exams after I finish my PhD, but I want to give it a year to recover. From what I've gathered so far is that the exam is all general knowledge and it would seem that you would get more benefit out of trying to answer the questions on this forum than reading DeHoff's Thermo book.

I have several years of experience in industry and 5 years in graduate school. However, I've never worked or studied under a licensed PE. Is that a general requirement for most states?

Metalhead

Metalhead97

Quote:

Is that a general requirement for most states?

You need to contact the PE Board for the State that you reside and they will determine your eligibility to sit for the exam.
 

I did talk to Samsa too, but she directed me to Nayak Subu, as far I know he is the one who put the exam together with the committee. He is sort of helping me 101 because I am researching each individual subject that is listed on the exam specification and he would let me know what would be the right thing to review. They did tell me about the new review/study guide, and mentioned that is more thorough, but did not know that was about 200 problems. Should be very good review.

TMS, who is more science-oriented, has the responsibility for putting together the test.  It would be interesting to speculate how the test might be different if engineering-oriented ASM put it together.

Aaron Tanzer
www.lehightesting.com

You might want to check on your level of candidacy, whether you need to take the FE or go straight to PE with an FE waiver. That's what I did. If you have a number of years of experience and have a PhD or even a Master's degree, they may waive the FE for you, but you need to check with the NCEES waiver policies, and your State Board.

I heard that NCEES has had talks about making this test a Standardized one, that exact same test for all candidates, but I doubt that they would do anything soon.

The NCEES have had a review material for this test, but it's not has thorough as the one they are working now.

Also i wanted to say that you don't necessary need to be working under a PE to take the exam. Years of experience and education would qualify you. You do need 3 PE references that review your experience record and 5 PE references for waiver. Check out the NCEES policies.

DQX1;
NCEES does not set registration policy for State Boards. State Boards set their own rules and determine a candidates eligibility for PE licensing. In some states PE references are not required. NCEES only administers exams and provides scores to the Boards. Boards issue licenses, not NCEES.

I will repeat this again, you must contact your state board and follow their requirements. There is misinformation when it comes to PE registration.
 

Metengr,
I meant to say the State Board, you are right sorry for the mistyping.

Hey metengr (Materials)
6 Feb 12 17:58  
According to your post there are some states which does not need PE references.  Can you please tell me which states are those?  Thanks.
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NCEES does not set registration policy for State Boards. State Boards set their own rules and determine a candidates eligibility for PE licensing. In some states PE references are not required. NCEES only administers exams and provides scores to the Boards. Boards issue licenses, not NCEES.
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Ya, don4;
The one State where the Board did not require specific PE references, other than a detailed job history and description of work, was Illinois because this is where I sat for the PE exam. Beyond this I do not know which other States have similar requirements to Illinois.

You can do a better job than I ever could researching this information (by either visting each web site and downloading rules or contacting each board via email) because you have more at stake than I do.
 

Don4,
The best way to find out about the PE rules and regulation is to contact NCEES directly, and to find out more about your State Board is also contacting them directly or going on their website. If you call them they should take a few minutes to answer all your questions. In Texas you need three PE references to be accepted for the test, and five PE references to waive the FS or EIT exam and go straight to the PE, but they also require a number of years of experience in combination with education. Again that is in Texas, it varies from State to State, one other aspect of PE is that not every state transfer license when moving depending on the discipline, I believe California and New York may be two of them, for Civil Engineers you may have to retake the exam in their respective States. I'm not sure for Materials and Metallurgy.

Does anyone know what is Principles and Practice of engineering exam?  
I am FE with multiple years of experience. Do I need to pass this exam before I appear for PE examination?

Thanks.
  

Done4,
I think you are ready to go straight to your PE. Again, you need to get with your State Board and NCEES. Highly recommended, there is no easy way out of this.

Good Luck Pal.

Colorado does not require you to have PE references.

Hello Met1CO and other PE's

I will be taking my PE exam in Metallurgy & Mat. Eng. in October 2012.

Is anyone else taking the exam this year ?

This thread gives lot of useful information, however i can use some guidance and tips from recent exam takers. Met1CO, are you willing to talk with me ? I can email you my phone number or i can call you, if you provide your phone number and conveniant time via email.

Thank you.

Mtlgst1,
I guess I am trying again for the third time. NCEES has a new review material. I haven't purchased mine yet.

DQXI,

Did you mean TMS? I spoke with Mary Samsa from TMS and she said the new study guide will be available in the next 2 weeks supposedly. We will see if that happens.

Mtlgst1 I am planning on taking the exam for the second time in October. I hope I pass this time, what a pain this exam is.

Agree with you, Nayak at TMS is the contact I've been talking to and he keeps telling me that the new review material will be ready in a few more days. The clock is ticking and is about time to start studying.

To mtlgst1:

How can i help you?

Met1Co

Wow this thread is scaring me!! I have an undergrad in Materials from Purdue and I worked for ~7 yrs in metallurgy (magnetic alloy development) but since the last 3-4 yrs I've worked in building technology - investigating failures, doing building assessments, designing repairs, etc. Since Materials is my background and since I have never taken courses in civil/structural, I am inclined to take the Materials PE but it sounds worse than taking the Civil PE even though I'd have to study from *scratch*!

My firm doesn't care which PE I have as long as I'm licensed so it's really up to me.

Thoughts? Help!

Met1Co,

Please provide some insight on what study problems you did to help you prepare for last years PE exam. I took the exam as well and unfortunately did not pass. I am a person who needs to do a lot of practice problems to help me prepare. The study guide TMS provides is alright but they do a terrible job in explaining their answers in a lot of their questions. Some questions have just an answer and no explanation of how they justified their answer. I have their new study guide but again I thought it was poorly written. I see that you have provided a list of reference books to read in a previous post, I will look into purchasing these. Any information you can provide will be most helpful.

Thanks!

Also, is anyone else struggling with studying for this exam?

@ NCSU

I mostly covered the problems given at the end of the chapters in the books. I did not use TMS study guide till the last week before exam. TMS study guide was for me to test myself. It was not to prepare for the exam.

I passed the FE exam in 2010. It also helped me out in basic problems.

I also have six sigma green belt and auditor certification from ASQ. Studying for these exams helped me out in my statistics and control charts etc.

One really needs to solve the problems at the end of the chapters.

It is really not a tough exam but you need to ask if you really want it?

Just 2 or 3 hours a day and 5 hours on weekends !!!


Met1CO

Met1co,

Thanks for the information. From your perspective which books provided the best information and the best practice problems? I am someone who needs to do a lot of practice problems.

Thanks,
NCSU0165

TMS just released a new study guide for the Metallurgical and Materials PE examination.
Its much more comprehensive than the previous version. Nayak Subu, from TMS put it together with the commeette and sent it to me yesterday. I may buy it this time around.

Click on the link below or copy and paste.

http://iweb.tchase/ProductDetail.aspx? Product_code=12-7605-

Transport Phenomena in Materials Processing' by Poirier and Geiger is a good book and it comes with solution manual.

Dieter is also a good book and it has answer keys at the end.

Callister is also a good book but the problems are easy to solve and answer keys are given at the end.

Thermo book by Gaskell is also excellent in solving problem. I think that some one has solved all the problems and posted the solution online. You can download it and it is free of cost.

Thanks Met1co I have all those books and I will buy the solution manual for the Poirier and Geiger book. DQX1 so Mr. Subu sent you the study guide. Mary Samsa sent me the study guide too. So you said you may buy the study guide, is it not the same one that Mr. Subu sent you or is the one online different but with more problems? Please explain.

Thanks, I will look info them.

NCSUO265,

Mr. Subu told me on the phone that it is the elaborated on with 90 plus questions and that match the percentage of problems on the actual exam. Like Met1 said, its good to use it to test yourself, but also think that it'll help you to track where you are on your review process.

DQX1, I just went through the study guide Mary Samsa sent me, and it only contains 75 questions and a lot of the questions were exactly the same from the previous study guide. Let me know what else you find out.

In New York you are required to work under a licensed and registered PE in order to site for the PE exam. In Wisconsin you must provide 5 references from 5 actively licensed and registered PEs. I believe that in Colorado you are required to do neither. Every state has its own set of rules, and the only way to find out what the requirements are in your particular state you need to contact the state board directly.

In just about every state you are allowed to put your license on inactive status if you decide that you can't justify paying the registration fees, or if paying for the continuing ed credits that are required to keep your license active are too great of a financial burden. In New York, Pennsylvania, and Colorado you have your license for life, so you can re-activate it at any time down the road if you choose to do so. In fact, I recently did this in New York. But in most states if you are on inactive status for too long you will have to go through the entire application process again, and re-sit for the exam. But there is a way around this for those of you who might be affected. I strongly recommend that everyone, once they have successfully passed the exam, get a second license issued in another state through reciprocity. In Colorado, for example, the registration fees are quite low (in the neighborhood of $50/year) and there are no continuing education credit requirements at all. So for only $50/year, you can remain actively licensed while your other license remains on inactive status. And if your inactive license expires, you may be able to re-apply for it through reciprocity from Colorado. It's something to consider.

The reason that no decent review books exist for the metallurgical exam is because throughout the entire United States, only about 50 people sit for the exam in any given year. That number is greatly eclipsed by those who sit for the civil and mechanical engineering exams, which both have several study guides available. It simply comes down to numbers - why would someone bother to write a study guide if only about 50 people would buy it in any year? I'm not surprised that TMS has been expending some effort to improve their online example questions, since the ones they had on their website were not really representative of what you would see on the actual exam.

It's a difficult test, but with the right prep you can pass it, as many here have shown. Good luck!

Maui

www.EngineeringMetallurgy.com

NCSU0165,

I'm going to call her to verify the information Mr Subu gave me. Thanks for letting me know.

Met1Co,

Do you happens to know the website link for the problems and solutions from the Thermo book by Gaskell? Also can you provide me with the ISBN numbers for the books you recommended me?
1-Transport Phenomena in Materials Processing by Poirier and Geiger
2-Dieter
3-Callister
4-Thermo Book by Gaskell

How did each one of these book helped you to pass the exam a lot or little?

Thanks.

The solution for Thermo by Gaskell was posted on a website. I think that a search should bring that up. It appeared to me that either a professor or a student solved the problems and posted them online.

Why do you need ISBN number? If you are trying to purchase the books, amazon can help. Try to buy the latest version of Thermo book by Gaskell because earlier versions have a lot of mistakes.

I can not imagine passing the exam without reading the books you mentioned. I did not prepare for the exam from TMS guide.

Try not to think that how minimum you should read to pass the exam. This exam is just a medium to gain some knowledge/information. Having that extra knowledge brings a feeling of contentment. That in itself is quite rewarding.

Good Luck !

I found all the books plus I ended up buying all of them recommended by the TMS. Thanks!

Can someone please explain this problem to me? This was on the TMS exam. The solution is terrible and does not explain anything. The solution is 1.86, not rejected. Any help you can provide will be most helpful.

Thanks,
NCSU0165

Two lines are configured to produce 0.75 mm sheet; their historical standard deviations are unknown but are considered equal. The following data was collected to determine if the mean of the machines' output is equal with 95% confidence

Line 1 Line 2
0.752 0.738
0.784 0.763
0.752 0.748
0.756 0.748
0.761 0.754
0.751 0.742
0.764 0.747
0.752 0.759


What is the value of the test statistic, and is the null hypothesis rejected?
(A) 1.86, not rejected (B) 1.86, rejected (C) 1.98, not rejected (D) 1.98, rejected

I do not know that how much do you know about Hypothesis testing. You have to establish your null hypothesis and alternate hypothesis. Based on the language of the problem, you can safely say that your null hypothesis is -

Ho (null hypothesis) = Means from both the machines are equal.
H1 ( Alternate hypothesis )= Means are not equal.

It is a case of double tailed hypothesis testing.

Does it help?

Met1co,

Thanks for your response. I do not think I am calculating the test statistic right. I did (0.7544-0.75)/(0.01063/SQRT 16) and obtained a value of 1.65. How did they obtain 1.86? Please let me know.

Thanks,
NCSU0165

Try the following:
t=(x[1,ave]-(x[2,ave])/(s[p]*sqrt(1/n1+1/n2))
S[p]^2=((n1-1)*s1^2+(n2-1)*s2^2)/(n1+n2-2)
Take the sqrt of that to get s[p]
Should be something like: t= (.759/.749875)/(.00987*.5) = 1.85

To tell if the hypothesis is rejected or not, you need to compare the value and degrees of freedom to a t-test or t-distribution table. Hope this helps...

HSCMIE1,

Thanks for the response. Excuse my ignorance, I have never taken statistics before, but do you have reference that contains this formula or is there somewhere online that explains this formula. I am having a difficult time following the equation you provided.

NCSU0165

Hey NCSU0165,

Did you give this exam this year? How did you do on this exam? If i need to contact you for the question, how should it be? I am new to this forum.