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Structural data for wood in wood frame building

Structural data for wood in wood frame building

Structural data for wood in wood frame building

(OP)
Not being in this field, I do not have many resources for wood structures data to apply to a new structure.  Will be constructing a wood pole style building and need to design for live loading.  can anyone offer any links or resources for this data?

RE: Structural data for wood in wood frame building

I'd hire a structural engineer if I were you. I'd never attempt designing my own plane :)

RE: Structural data for wood in wood frame building

fastline,

best to get yourself a good structural engineer (the building type not the aeronautical type) we are cheap compared to you guys!.

RE: Structural data for wood in wood frame building

Is this for home? It seems there was a similar thread a few weeks ago, or months.  If it is for home then start with NDS, ASCE and Beyer's Wood Structures text. If it is commercial, hire someone.

There are days when I wake up feeling like the dumbest man on the planet, then there are days when I confirm it.  

RE: Structural data for wood in wood frame building

(OP)
Yes, this is for home use.  I was going to design it and then have the design blessed by someone more competent to make sure I don't miss anything.  In looking at how some buildings are done, I just do not like them.  Maybe the aerostructures side of me just wants to do things different.  

One thing that will require some work is the roof trusses since we want to use a scissor type truss over a large span.  I suspect it will have to be a hybrid with steel in it but we have built them before with no issues.  Our county accepts anything that is stamped so it would really be on us that the structure is sound.   

RE: Structural data for wood in wood frame building


 "...it would really be on us that the structure is sound."

Let's hope that doesn't happen as your comments would be missed.  Get a structural engineer.    
 

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Motto:  KISS
Motivation:  Don't ask

RE: Structural data for wood in wood frame building

If it is a residential wood frame type home, the attached would be a good starting point for the basics. They (www.pathnet.org) also have other free downloads on housing.

Garth Dreger PE - AZ Phoenix area
As EOR's we should take the responsibility to design our structures to support the components we allow in our design per that industry standards.

RE: Structural data for wood in wood frame building

One of the neatest structures I've seen was a shed build by a Certified Welder. This guy had 20+ years in the field and built his "tool shed" (it was 30'x60') out of the scrap steel he purchased from his boss. It took him 5 years to get enough material to build his shed. It was a pole frame structure, consisting of W8x24's as the poles, C6's as the gurts and rafters with a double C6 as the rafter beam and L3x3x1/4 for cross bracding. The whole thing was covered with corrigated metal deck. I can't remember the thickness. All welded connections with exception to the "poles" they were augered 48" into the ground with concrete. The county he lived in, only required a drawing (formal) by an architect, which he paid for by doing some trade work. I asked how he did the engineering, he replied: Blogget's book.  

There are days when I wake up feeling like the dumbest man on the planet, then there are days when I confirm it.  

RE: Structural data for wood in wood frame building

Check with your local wood truss mfg.  They can get you preliminary roof drawings.

Find a local Pole or Post Frame builder.  They can be helpful

Go to the NFPA website - National Frame Builders

Go to APAwood web site

Finally, hire an engineer who is familiar w/ type of structure. We can be informative and inventive.  Done it for about 30 years.

I, too, have often thought this would be an economical house solution!  Based on size the shell can be as cheap as $10/sq ft!!

Add a concrete slab and some interior walls and you got it.

RE: Structural data for wood in wood frame building

The American Wood Council and Southern Pine council have free downloadable guides to get you familiar with the design and details.  Also, a discontinued textbook by Hoyle and Woeste has a chapter on this type of design.  The Wood Handbook may have something.  It is available as a free download from the Forest Products Lab.   

Jason A. Partain, P.E.
www.myconstructionfinds.blogspot.com
 

RE: Structural data for wood in wood frame building

(OP)
Thanks for all the info guys.  After reading my post, I should probably clarify that I was not looking for design help as much as just wood properties.  Used to working with Al and steels and not familiar with wood properties as much.  I am not too concerned of building a sound structure with the right data at hand but I will probably throw a few design thoughts through here for any thoughts.  The building will be in tornado alley so we really have to keep that in mind in the design.   

RE: Structural data for wood in wood frame building

NDS is the wood bible.

RE: Structural data for wood in wood frame building

If the building is in tornado alley, I would think it would be mandatory for a qualified SE to do the design.

Will there be a "safe room"? I haven't done any designs in tornado land but realizing the huge wind velocities, flying debris, and low air pressure tending to "explode" closed structures, and the design of building structures being less accurate and predictable than aerospace structural design, I would hire a SE.

At any rate, a free resource is attached (it is a large .pdf file), but keep in mind this is not complete such as the NDS.

 

RE: Structural data for wood in wood frame building

This whats called the regression of a profession, I bet an aeronautical engineer in 1910 would know how to work with wood!

bigcheeks

RE: Structural data for wood in wood frame building

Ooops sorry - the pdf attachment ran into an error, won't upload - it was that Wood Council NDS code update seminar.

I may find an URL later.

 

RE: Structural data for wood in wood frame building

BTW - No building meeting IBC 2009 will handle an F4 or F5 tornado - maybe - just maybe an F1.  Houses would have to be 12'' thick reinforced concrete with bulletproof glass - probably a $1,000/ sq ft. and ugly.  No one would live in those.  Safe rooms are a thought and they are getting more popular - just designed my first house with one.

I live in tornado alley - St. Louis.  Just look at Joplin or our airport.  Both were torn to shreds!!  We design to 90 mph - that's it.  And tornadoes can go to 300 mph!!!

I have lived here 55 years and NEVER even seen one!!  Very spotty, very seldom hit populated areas or large areas.  Although this year has been a bit "different" - global warming - you know???

RE: Structural data for wood in wood frame building

Mike -
I heard in the news that some ICF - wall houses "survived" the recent tornadoes, but there was no specific info - was the roof peeled off partially, etc?

 

RE: Structural data for wood in wood frame building

(OP)
Thanks for the info guys.  I have some limited experience with deck and truss work and certainly would pass my designs by an experienced SE in this line of work.  

Being in the alley, I have witnessed 4 and driven through 1.  Also had our place hit with 140mph micro burst that dozed 4 oaks.  I realize I cannot design for the worst but I certainly would design above IBC 09 minimums.  call me ridiculous but I am also considering cable anchor system that I can deploy/attach if the time is right.  In most cases in the alley, you get at least 10min of warning that something bad is coming.  Whether cables could truly save a structure is yet to be determined I guess.  

Safe room will certainly be a below ground concrete vault.  I personally hope I never need it but I assure you, once you see one, that structural part is always in the back of your mind.  

I am still trying to learn a bit more about how tornados level buildings.  It might be that all is pointless.  I know the extreme low pressure cell inside can explode a home which makes me wondering about leaving a door open or something.  Greensburg KS has some pretty innovative structures there after being leveled years ago.   

RE: Structural data for wood in wood frame building

The assumed failure path as I understand it.

The roof is blown or sucked off.  Then the air pressure blows or sucks the walls in or out.  With a tornado or hurricane you will both positive and negative pressures.

Common thinking today is to make the building air tight.  If it survives roof or window blow out - then it might not over pressurize and explode.

OR - if you opened ALL the windows and doors you MIGHT equalize the pressure and be OK..   However, the inside would be a shambles with water damage everywhere!!

 

RE: Structural data for wood in wood frame building

(OP)
One thing I have noted in some house construction is all the static snow loading design in the roof trusses but next to nothing in the way of securement of the trusses to the wall structures.  Actually, in most of them, just toe nails are all that exist!!  Obviously with an overhang, it would not take much at all to "pull the lid off".  I intend to install something to get some bolts in full sheer holding the roof on.  I know on a pole building, those poles are not coming out.  My largest concern is those extreme winds on such a wide/tall/flat wall.  Makes me want to add a radius to "something" lol...  Talk about a construction nightmare...

RE: Structural data for wood in wood frame building

I highly recommend you visit Simpson Strong Tie and become familiar with thier connection plates.  

There are days when I wake up feeling like the dumbest man on the planet, then there are days when I confirm it.  

RE: Structural data for wood in wood frame building

fastline12

What state are you located in?

If it is an exempted building, I might be able to assist in the design. However, I am a building designer. If you are in a state that exempts SFRs under both architect and engineer's law. I could possibly work out the calcs.

However, I am in Oregon so exemption exists in both architect law or engineer law so I don't have to have an engineer's license to design houses and run the structural calcs if it is within my area of competence. This does not mean, I go around calling myself an engineer. (I'll double check what this forum is categorizing me...)

I have various manuals that depicts much of how to engineer posts, beams, pole and other timber structures.

If needed, an S.E. can be brought on board.

Your area of expertise is in aerospace and that would be a very different field and your area of expertise would only be best applicable in determining aerodynamics of the building and how it might perform under extreme winds. However, we aren't trying to make the house fly.... LOL!

 

RE: Structural data for wood in wood frame building

With tornados, it might be worth considering aerodynamics of the building's form and allow the tornado to ride over. I would require the roof to be entirely tied and anchored to grown with each anchor with 1 Million psf pull up strength and anchored at intervals not exceeding 24" o.c.

I would consider possibly a lamella roof.

Also, a low profile that doesn't allow for wind uplift and if any roof uplift begins, that there is a lot of anchor to prevent uplift force. Lack of roof overhang (or that it continues to the ground and not allow there to be a lip in the roof to lift the roof. Not having it project above the ground plain would be important. However, I would be concern about flood plains so ideally such would not be in a flood plain area or subject to floods.

 

BUILDING DESIGNER - NOT A PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER

RE: Structural data for wood in wood frame building

Those poles do come OUT!!!  Seen it a few times.  One building looked perfectly good after the storm - but it was about 250 yards from where it was built. You need to use some sort of footing or "cookie" tied to the bottom of the pole and held down by concrete or maybe soil!!

Simpson and USP make great truss connectors - use them ALWAYS!!

RE: Structural data for wood in wood frame building

As others have indicated, adequately tying the members together with metal timber ties is an essential key. I would also recommend that you beef up the roofing connections at critical areas such as eaves and ridges.

There is no guarantee but there are things you can do to increase your chances.

the cable anchoring system is an interesting idea though getting these adequately anchored into the ground would be the difficult part.

RE: Structural data for wood in wood frame building

Mike,

with Poles, special connectors maybe required but for trusses, they shall be engineered and have the appropriate connectors. I am not sure if Simpson connectors are rated for eF3 or eF4 or even ef5 class tornados. They use the eF system nowadays. or EF (whatever).

The bottom line, we are talking about piles or something like that.

Piles that are linked by a grade-beam that also serves as pile caps. If you prevent the roof from being pulled up, you might also be able to prevent the poles from being pulled up (if they are inside.



 

BUILDING DESIGNER - NOT A PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER

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